DUST Search - SOLUTION: How to fix the Heavy suit/HMG once and for all!

Den-tredje Baron wrote:

KOBLAKA1 wrote:

Den-tredje Baron wrote:

D legendary hero wrote:

hahaha....

i posted this somewhere:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=943251#post943251

wether that was sarcasim or not, your actually right, because based on the dispersion of the HMG compared to the AR, and the fact that they do indeed fire similar rounds they should have the same range.

AR vs HMG should be like this:

AR accuracy > HMG accuracy
AR dps < HMG dps (The AR is stampled as a close quarter high damage gun)
AR range = HMG range ( NOOOOOO nononono would make HMG insanely OP)
AR over heat < HMG over heat
AR reload > HMG reload
AR dispesion < HMG dispersion
AR headshots > HMG headshots
AR damage per shot = HMG damage per shot (doesn't the HMG fire a lot faster than the AR and clip size is also much bigger so suddenly you got a small blaster turret in your hands)

I really don't think that HMG's should have the same range as AR's. It's a HIP !! fired weapon. Try to take a gun today and fire it from the hip you'll never get same accuracy as a gun beeing actually aimed with.
I won't be a total moron and reject this totally, because you are right that the HMG just can't hold up against the AR. I would like to see a range increase though not to the point where it's near the same range as the AR. 1.2 is coming up and it looks like we're going to get our falloff in this update so shouldn't we wait with discussing improving HMG range till after that gets deployed.

Also regarding the turning speed and all that speed stuff, look at the other amarr suits they're slow as hell and got a poor poor poor slot layout. The faster CCP can give us the other heavies the faster we can begin to judge the heavies to each other not medium frames. Hopefully also the redo of armor plates will be a boost to heavies tanks and i do know that good corps like ILL OMENS use full squads of heavies with HMGs to basically just force people out of certain areas as close range NO ONE can withstand the push of several heavies.

Your argument about weapons today doesn't work because MGs are more accurate over longer ranges and typically use a higher caliber which mean more damage than an AR.

But if your firing it from the hip you'll never get to the point where you are actually accurate... nevermind should never have drawn real world into the discussion my fail.And regarding the resistance on heavy suits i'm all in for a MINOR resistance bonus on the heavy suits. Something like 2-3% per level trained not 30-45% ahh. Gotta remember that heavies can use any kind of weapons so they can also just get a AR.

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Den-tredje Baron ParagonX 130	Posted - 2013.06.27 18:55:00 - [91] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: Den-tredje Baron wrote: D legendary hero wrote: hahaha.... i posted this somewhere: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=943251#post943251 wether that was sarcasim or not, your actually right, because based on the dispersion of the HMG compared to the AR, and the fact that they do indeed fire similar rounds they should have the same range. AR vs HMG should be like this: AR accuracy > HMG accuracy AR dps < HMG dps (The AR is stampled as a close quarter high damage gun) AR range = HMG range ( NOOOOOO nononono would make HMG insanely OP) AR over heat < HMG over heat AR reload > HMG reload AR dispesion < HMG dispersion AR headshots > HMG headshots AR damage per shot = HMG damage per shot (doesn't the HMG fire a lot faster than the AR and clip size is also much bigger so suddenly you got a small blaster turret in your hands) I really don't think that HMG's should have the same range as AR's. It's a HIP !! fired weapon. Try to take a gun today and fire it from the hip you'll never get same accuracy as a gun beeing actually aimed with. I won't be a total moron and reject this totally, because you are right that the HMG just can't hold up against the AR. I would like to see a range increase though not to the point where it's near the same range as the AR. 1.2 is coming up and it looks like we're going to get our falloff in this update so shouldn't we wait with discussing improving HMG range till after that gets deployed. Also regarding the turning speed and all that speed stuff, look at the other amarr suits they're slow as hell and got a poor poor poor slot layout. The faster CCP can give us the other heavies the faster we can begin to judge the heavies to each other not medium frames. Hopefully also the redo of armor plates will be a boost to heavies tanks and i do know that good corps like ILL OMENS use full squads of heavies with HMGs to basically just force people out of certain areas as close range NO ONE can withstand the push of several heavies. Your argument about weapons today doesn't work because MGs are more accurate over longer ranges and typically use a higher caliber which mean more damage than an AR. But if your firing it from the hip you'll never get to the point where you are actually accurate... nevermind should never have drawn real world into the discussion my fail.And regarding the resistance on heavy suits i'm all in for a MINOR resistance bonus on the heavy suits. Something like 2-3% per level trained not 30-45% ahh. Gotta remember that heavies can use any kind of weapons so they can also just get a AR.
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 96	Posted - 2013.06.27 19:20:00 - [92] - Quote Den-tredje Baron wrote: KOBLAKA1 wrote: Den-tredje Baron wrote: D legendary hero wrote: hahaha.... i posted this somewhere: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=943251#post943251 wether that was sarcasim or not, your actually right, because based on the dispersion of the HMG compared to the AR, and the fact that they do indeed fire similar rounds they should have the same range. AR vs HMG should be like this: AR accuracy > HMG accuracy AR dps < HMG dps (The AR is stampled as a close quarter high damage gun) AR range = HMG range ( NOOOOOO nononono would make HMG insanely OP) AR over heat < HMG over heat AR reload > HMG reload AR dispesion < HMG dispersion AR headshots > HMG headshots AR damage per shot = HMG damage per shot (doesn't the HMG fire a lot faster than the AR and clip size is also much bigger so suddenly you got a small blaster turret in your hands) I really don't think that HMG's should have the same range as AR's. It's a HIP !! fired weapon. Try to take a gun today and fire it from the hip you'll never get same accuracy as a gun beeing actually aimed with. I won't be a total moron and reject this totally, because you are right that the HMG just can't hold up against the AR. I would like to see a range increase though not to the point where it's near the same range as the AR. 1.2 is coming up and it looks like we're going to get our falloff in this update so shouldn't we wait with discussing improving HMG range till after that gets deployed. Also regarding the turning speed and all that speed stuff, look at the other amarr suits they're slow as hell and got a poor poor poor slot layout. The faster CCP can give us the other heavies the faster we can begin to judge the heavies to each other not medium frames. Hopefully also the redo of armor plates will be a boost to heavies tanks and i do know that good corps like ILL OMENS use full squads of heavies with HMGs to basically just force people out of certain areas as close range NO ONE can withstand the push of several heavies. Your argument about weapons today doesn't work because MGs are more accurate over longer ranges and typically use a higher caliber which mean more damage than an AR. But if your firing it from the hip you'll never get to the point where you are actually accurate... nevermind should never have drawn real world into the discussion my fail.And regarding the resistance on heavy suits i'm all in for a MINOR resistance bonus on the heavy suits. Something like 2-3% per level trained not 30-45% ahh. Gotta remember that heavies can use any kind of weapons so they can also just get a AR. plenty of peeps hip fire their ARs too lol and i agree 30%+ is too much 2.5% is probably the sweet spot
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 234	Posted - 2013.06.28 02:30:00 - [93] - Quote ^^i said 30-45% is the MAXIMUM. that is the highest, or total resistance the suit should be capable of, how the suit gets that 30-45% is up to CCP, but the Maximum percentage resistance, after all skills are met should be between 30-45% hip fire doesnt change range it only changes accuracy, having the same range will not make it OP, as it is inaccuarte. IRL walking fire is a valid tactic, where all though in accurate good at supression, this is what the HMG in DUST is meant for. the point to making the HMG better, and the suit abit better, is that the only real advantage to the heavy suit is that it can use HMGs and Forge guns. i mean really if you keep the HMG nerfed then yeah all the heavies you see will be using ARs, because it does the HMGs job better. if you leave the heavy suit nerfed then yeah your just gonna see abunch of caldari logis running around because they can do the suits job better. its asimple as that finally full squads of heavies dnt make sense, because, there are no equipment slots, no nano hives, no spawn uplinks, a team of shotguners with contact nades, or a team of caldari logis with TAC ARs, or regular duvoules can still take them out because they do comparable damage. their shields recover slower than every onw else, and they are more suceptible to mass drives and basically anything you can throw at them. one flux, and a few nades will kill any squad of densely pacted heavies
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 239	Posted - 2013.06.30 05:16:00 - [94] - Quote edit and readjustment: STD HMG should get = 25 base damage, ADV HMG should get = 28.5 base damage PROTO HMG should get = 31 base damage GASTON's HMG = 34 base damage STD AHMG = 20 base damage ADV AHMG = 24 base damage PROTO AHMG = 28 base damage ADV BHMG = 25 damage PROTO BHMG = 30 damage
Adan Montano Pietsch Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.06 23:56:00 - [95] - Quote I just want ccp to fix the dam hmg, i mean it truly sucks it really does... ive tried so many times to use and its basically only good to shred noobs with militia gear, i mean a fricking militia shotgun could easily take me out even when i have armor upgraded to the max and shield max. CCP listened to the community but they really spoiled all the whiners, seriously ive made so many characters already trying to find the perfect build for the hmg but their isnt any, Its just simply too nerfed to even used. Ima just roll with ar's if the dam hmg isnt fixed
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 279	Posted - 2013.07.07 02:45:00 - [96] - Quote another problem with the HMG is that the bullets arent randomly flying around with in the ridicule. they are eith er flying directly on the tiny dot in the center or completely off to the side somewhere off target and out the ridicule circle. the damage needs a buff to what i said in post #93, and it needs the cone spray fixed.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 235	Posted - 2013.07.07 05:18:00 - [97] - Quote I find it interesting how most people against the HMG getting a range and/or damage increase argue and show formulas based on every round hitting it's target, something impossible to do with a HMG beyond about 15 feet. Seriously, I'm a Forge Gunner and I nearly beat a HMG with my SMG. He had less than 15% armor left when it was done. If he hadn't started firing on my left side before I saw him I would have won and that's just not right.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 284	Posted - 2013.07.08 02:57:00 - [98] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I find it interesting how most people against the HMG getting a range and/or damage increase argue and show formulas based on every round hitting it's target, something impossible to do with a HMG beyond about 15 feet. Seriously, I'm a Forge Gunner and I nearly beat a HMG with my SMG. He had less than 15% armor left when it was done. If he hadn't started firing on my left side before I saw him I would have won and that's just not right. this is precisely it. thats why in every equation of involving the HMG i always subtract 35% dispersion. because it seems as though only a portion of your bullets even hit target out side 15m, and since inside 15m peeople move too fast to hit because of the turn speed, you get an ineffective suit weilding an ineffectual weapon. for example the dps on the PROTO boundless hmg is 660 (only marginally better than a GEK assault rifle). when you subtract the 35% dispersion you get a dps of 660-231 = 429 dps (weaker than a GEK at 467 dps). i am not asking to decrease dispersion, but increasing raw damage per shot is necessary for this weapon type. see post #93 in this thread
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 293	Posted - 2013.07.09 16:07:00 - [99] - Quote bump
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 346	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:19:00 - [100] - Quote alternate suggestion decrease rate of fire to 1000, decrease dispersion, increase damage to 38 per shot for standard, 41.5 for advance, and 44 for proto. the dps will be 633, 691, and 733 respectively which are slightly better than the current iterations but gives your clip a longer life before reloading for 8 seconds, it makes over heating a higher factor and decreasing dispersion will mean your enemy wlll see more of these rounds accurately.

Beld Errmon D3M3NT3D M1NDZ Orion Empire 706	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:38:00 - [101] - Quote I think the last thing you want to do with the heavy is increase its dmg, when conditions are right the heavy rips ppl apart, however one thing i think the heavy really needs is another weapon or 2 to increase its versatility, many of the maps we play on feature large amounts of open ground the heavy really needs a medium to long range anti infantry weapon. The suit also needs moar hit points, it really doesn't seem right that these logi suits getting around have more or a little less HP then a decked out protoheavy, I remember a time when I had to skirmish a good heavy because standing toe to toe with him would be suicide and his HP would dwarf mine.
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 144	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:39:00 - [102] - Quote All I see is ***, ***, Moan, complain. Shut up, there's more problems in the game. Peace, Aizen
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 348	Posted - 2013.07.11 04:42:00 - [103] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: All I see is a totally logical and valid concern. this is a pressing issue and i too would like to see it resolved. Peace, Aizen i concur.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 354	Posted - 2013.07.12 15:38:00 - [104] - Quote bump
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 368	Posted - 2013.07.17 03:27:00 - [105] - Quote bump
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 368	Posted - 2013.07.17 03:29:00 - [106] - Quote bump
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 49	Posted - 2013.07.17 04:17:00 - [107] - Quote Queen of Uranus wrote: Umm. NO. If you want an AR just equip an AR. Like I said before only AR users do not want the heavy or HMG to be better because there feelings would get hurt as I mow them down. I am tired of being pot shot at and ran over because my gun fails to do its job or my suit is so gimped I am just an easy moving target. Try it I dare you for one week, try it and you will say the same thing I am saying. The heavy suit and HMG are broken end of story.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 370	Posted - 2013.07.17 04:18:00 - [108] - Quote calvin b wrote: Queen of Uranus wrote: Umm. NO. If you want an AR just equip an AR. Like I said before only AR users do not want the heavy or HMG to be better because there feelings would get hurt as I mow them down. I am tired of being pot shot at and ran over because my gun fails to do its job or my suit is so gimped I am just an easy moving target. Try it I dare you for one week, try it and you will say the same thing I am saying. The heavy suit and HMG are broken end of story. amen
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 389	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:10:00 - [109] - Quote bump
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 469	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:25:00 - [110] - Quote Yea I agree the Heavies are broken as a class. The 5% Resistance to Small Arms Fire for a Sentinel bonus would definitely be a welcomed adjustment, but first things first. CCP needs to start small with things like fixing the Broken HMG Hit Detection! Then add the other Heavies Racial variants for kitten's sake! Then make adjustments to the Heavy Suits and HMG as necessary.



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