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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2013.06.18 04:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
And if the distance between the two sides is greater than a shotgun's optimal range? Like in one of the city-ish maps where you have a CRU on a raised walkway across a street from the objective which is raised to a similar height. That area tends to be a common fighting place and the distance between the two spots is too great for a shotgun. Or what about the time before you get that close? If the heavy is there, the enemy shouldn't be very successful in getting past his optimal range. Not all fire fights get into shotgun range.
As for restricting line of fire, if you position yourself correctly, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, ever heard of taking point?
And for cover, you have to jump out some time. If the enemy's fire is focused on the heavy, that means less bullets flying at you while you take your shots.
Beeeees wrote:Everyone-¦s in cover but the heavy, and as he begins to tank bullet after bullet, its boomstick time. Out of cover and off with their faces. That however would require the HMG to be able to dish out on similar distances with the AR.
I'm not even sure what you are saying here...
Are you saying that someone will kill the heavy with a shotgun? How does that prove the HMG needs more range?
Beeeees wrote:The fatsuit has to be WITH the squad, not IN FRONT of it, coincidentally where the buisness end of everyone-¦s and his clone-mum-¦s AR is pointing.
But he is with the squad, he is just standing ahead of everyone else. He should still be close enough to the squad that a logi can use their repair tool to keep him alive. |
D legendary hero
One-Armed Bandits
199
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Posted - 2013.06.18 04:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:D legendary hero wrote:the IRL argument was meant to be used in conjuntion with the "how much more so" question.
therefore, if LMGs IRL use the same ammo as ARs, and are meant for supresion, walking fire, etc. How much more so, should a HMG in the far future be more effecient?
although knowledge doesnt always go forward with time, tbh the general equation for the future technology is:
future tech > present tech > past tech
is if present tech is good, wh is the future variant bad. please explain. You seemed to have missed my point. Krom Ganesh wrote:As for the "IRL arguments," if you haven't noticed we are fighting as immortal clone soldiers with lasers, bullets, and everything else in between in space year something something something. We're not going for realism here. Your progression of quality is still an IRL argument. Besides, how can you say their future tech is worse? Can you tell how much force is behind each shot? Perhaps to overcome technological advances in protection (our suits and shields), they had to develop more powerful weapons that have disadvantages. If we were going for realism, there probably wouldn't be any mercs. If nothing else, EVE pilots could easily handle eliminating any threats on the surface. More likely, we would have incredibly advanced robots sweep through areas, eliminating any missed targets, and reasserting control.
the eve pilots don't do it them selves because they dnt want to totally wreck the installations on the planet, and its resources, and the galente did the robot thing. they got hacked.
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D legendary hero
One-Armed Bandits
199
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Posted - 2013.06.18 05:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beeeees wrote:
Thats some fine reductio ad absurdum right there.
Right now the HMG is a glorified shotgun. You cant even properly set up a killzone with it except indoors. And I doubt ambushing players around the corner is the HMGs niche, thats what shotguns and nova knives are for.
An Ideal use of the HMG would be fire support and suppression. Thats the most sensible application for an MG. But it lacks the damage and the range.
So yeah.
^^this. simple and true |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
254
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Posted - 2013.06.18 05:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
GVGMODE wrote:Real life HMG should be allowed to be used by other dropsuits if they have the strenght. Heavy dropsuit should have 20 slots (5High, 5Low, 5 weapon and 5 equipment) I mean it should be "too big to fail"
-1 to obvious Troll |
D legendary hero
One-Armed Bandits
199
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Posted - 2013.06.18 05:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:GVGMODE wrote:Real life HMG should be allowed to be used by other dropsuits if they have the strenght. Heavy dropsuit should have 20 slots (5High, 5Low, 5 weapon and 5 equipment) I mean it should be "too big to fail" -1 to obvious Troll
if they do that a big self destruct button would be on the forehead of the heavy and his back and one melee would blow him up... or CCP you can allow enemies to hack the heavy suit and make it go to their team. since everyone seems to think the heavy should be a turret. |
TheEnd762
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2013.06.18 06:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Heavy's nature is to have a bit more health than everyone else, and thus be a little slower. The job of a heavy is to carry the heavy weapons; in the case of Dust, the Forge Gun and the HMG.
The nature/job of the Heavy has nothing to do with the nature/job of the HMG. The nature of the HMG (any HMG, "IRL" or not) is to be a weapon capable of putting a lot of rounds downrange very quickly, not necessarily accurately. The job of an HMG, when it comes to vs infantry, is suppression, primarily, and killing, secondarily. It's not supposed to be a pin-point accurate bullet-hose with a ridiculous effective range. It's supposed to project a wide screen of bullets to discourage enemies from moving by keeping them behind cover. It shouldn't have as much recoil as an AR due to it's weight, but ALL fully-automatic weapons should have a level of dispersion proportional to their rate of fire, the size of their rounds, and the duration of their sustained fire. |
Beeeees
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
22
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Posted - 2013.06.18 14:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote: As for restricting line of fire, if you position yourself correctly, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, ever heard of taking point?
Yes, as a Project Reality and ArmA vet I also heard of squad tactics and cohesion, the tactical difference between CQB and open field assault (dust is 80% CQB which is bullsh!t considering snipers are the regular sci-fi kind of snipers here), and I also heard about firing lines and killzones and lots of other stuff. Positioning yourself correctely on the front line is not enough for PC. You may ignore a stray hit or two from behind with FF off, in PC however you can not.
Krom Ganesh wrote: But he is with the squad, he is just standing ahead of everyone else. He should still be close enough to the squad that a logi can use their repair tool to keep him alive.
Out in the open tanking doesnt make sense, because most of the time the line of sight is unobstructed, and everyone from the squad is out there on a platter. In semi-open CQB it doesnt make a lot of sense because the area is semi-open, meaning semi-obstructed line of sight, meaning that the heavy himself wont have enough range to engage effectively In CQB it doesnt make sense because the CQB parts of maps are so incredibly cramped that there is no LOS at all, and the heavy is on his own, while the rest of the squad spaztically attempts to cover as much ground as possible. Or he is taking hits from behind, because the place is cramped. |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
84
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Posted - 2013.06.18 14:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Psychotic Shooter wrote:Ok CCP Real life HMG shoot as far as and use the same round as Assault rifles at least make the HMG shoot as far in the game
Use an Assault HMG, champ. Works like a charm. |
General Erick
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
38
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Posted - 2013.06.18 16:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
I actually like the accuracy of the HMG as it is. I just want to kill LAV's with it again. |
D legendary hero
One-Armed Bandits
208
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Posted - 2013.06.19 06:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:The Heavy's nature is to have a bit more health than everyone else, and thus be a little slower. The job of a heavy is to carry the heavy weapons; in the case of Dust, the Forge Gun and the HMG.
The nature/job of the Heavy has nothing to do with the nature/job of the HMG. The nature of the HMG (any HMG, "IRL" or not) is to be a weapon capable of putting a lot of rounds downrange very quickly, not necessarily accurately. The job of an HMG, when it comes to vs infantry, is suppression, primarily, and killing, secondarily. It's not supposed to be a pin-point accurate bullet-hose with a ridiculous effective range. It's supposed to project a wide screen of bullets to discourage enemies from moving by keeping them behind cover. It shouldn't have as much recoil as an AR due to it's weight, but ALL fully-automatic weapons should have a level of dispersion proportional to their rate of fire, the size of their rounds, and the duration of their sustained fire.
LMGs fire the same munition as ARs in the same squad for logistics purposes namely economy of ammo (why carry two different types of ammo, when one size fits all?) in many armoed forces around the world this is the case. many milita groups simply convert ARs to fire with larger magazines and a slightly larger barrel.
Suppression and killing the enemy go hand and hand, in this i must disagree. if you can't put the enemy down (stopping power), then suppresion is not accomplished.
if stopping power were not a concern then 9mm pistol rounds could be used instead to suppress, but obviously ability to prevent larger forces from charging your position is a concern.
gattling guns, miniguns, HMGs and LMGs all equally are designed for killing potential and suppression.
the tactical usage of the LMG (as an example), is all revolved around supression, whether in a defensive role, (kill zones, etc), or offense (i.e. walking fire). an enemy can be supressed on offense or defense. the goal is to stop movement.
that brings me to the point. the HMG in dust 514 has neither the stopping power nor the range necesary for suppresion or killing potential. and these must be addressed. |
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