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EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1216	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:03:00 - [1] - Quote Basic problems Militia AV - It's too good, alot of players do use them against basic vehicles, you want players to try them out sure but you also want players to specialize into AV if they like it. Reduce militia AV by 50% damage Militia Vehicles - The LAV is generally too good now since the HP buff, even the HAV got a HP buff which wasn't needed, so remove the buff to militia vehicles, dropship stays the same. This would generally stop militia LAV as murder taxis since they would be more like paper so easier to take out AV nades - Many assault/logis use this as their main source of AV because they are skilled mostly into their primary and dropsuit/mods, problem is they are very good for knocking out a HAV on its own, the nades should be more of a deterrent and not as a standalone AV weapon to be put next to the SL/FG/PL, it should be used with the AV weapons. I would reduce the damage by 25-50%, also it would help if we could see how much damage they do to begin with Swarm launchers - They lock on fairly fast and you can generally bunny hop in front of your target and not get hit and still be able to launch GÇó The lock on time should be increased , 2sec or so GÇó Swarms should not be able to turn 180deg on a sixpence, many a time in a LAV im driving towards to missiles then I swerve and the missiles just stop in the air turn around and hit GÇó Invisible missiles are back - we can't see where they are being fired from so we can't kill the SL guy GÇó Lock on - Fire and forget it is really, no skill required, I would like to make it advanced/proto only and introduce other variants, such as a guided SL, you have to maintain lock for the missiles to hit, this would have a damage increase and also possibly a missile velocity increase, downside is if you lose lock the missiles are lost and if you regain lock it's too late due to missile velocity and lock on time. I would like to see a dumb fire variant but the problem is it would be like the very old SL where it was spammed against infantry more than vehicles and OHK all infantry like what happened in the 1st build Forge Guns - Stats - Comparison with Proto Railguns GÇó Breach FG - 2772 Damage, 277.2 Splash damage, 1.5m Blast radius, 6sec charge time GÇó Compressed particle cannon - 1798.7 Damage, 292.5 Splash damage, 2.5m splash radius, 2.2sec fire interval, 0.3 charge time GÇó Assault FG - 1663.2 Damage, 277.2 Splash damage, 3m Blast radius, 2.5sec charge time GÇó Particle cannon - 1438.9 Damage, 234 Splash damage, 2.5 Blast radius, 1.8sec fire interval, 0.3sec charge time Add in skills that FG get a 25% reduction to charge time and 15% damage increase where as turrets get 15% damage also but nothing else, but the base value the FG are consistently stronger than the railguns all through from basic to proto and also fire faster with max skills when using the assault FG Problem is this is going against the basic vehicles, the basic armor tank I tend to see is about the 6700armor mark where as shield is at 5500 fitted out, going by this advanced tanks fitted out we would be seeing close to 8k armor and 6.8 shield and proto tanks reaching 10k and more which would then take these proto FG a clip or so to take out or even a couple of proto guys (argue over teamwork later) but these advanced and proto vehicles would be the most expensive things in the game in SP and ISK but the payoff is worth it for vehicle users.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1216	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:04:00 - [2] - Quote Now the problem is we can't really change AV as such because we don't have advanced/proto vehicles and if/when they are added if they are stronger and have more armor/shield and it can stand up to proto then the jobs a good one. So for now we have to deal with proto AV vs basic vehicles or to balance the playing field until advanced/proto vehicles are added temporarily remove advanced/proto AV so its basic AV going against basic vehicles. I know this option will not go down well to AV guys skilled into proto but also think of it this way, how would you like to not even be able to dent a stationary proto HAV because you are basic AV? you wouldn't and how many players including infantry would call for the removal of proto vehicles if this was the case? the vast majority would want them removed Plasma cannon - I dont see this used alot if at all, the projectile is slow, its trajectory is basically fall to the ground as quick as possible, CQC range, FG & SL are better AV options AV & vehicle payouts - If you specialize into these roles expect no isk even if you kill 4 enforcers in a game totalling 6mil ISK, you will be lucky to get 300k. You cannot make a profit unless you don't die for several games unless you want to run militia suits because all your SP is into vehicles. In general we need bigger payouts to make us feel more useful and also to reward those who go into the roles to begin with, I suggest that anyone who kills anything gets 50% more ISK and anyone who assists gets 25% Example - AV/vehicle guy kills a 1mil ISK HAV, he gets 500k as a reward for killing that HAV, the guy who got an assist for also helping killing that HAV gets 250k This would be in pub matches and FW matches and in PC I would make it that whoever wins the PC gets 100% of the ISK value of anything killed instead of the base 1mil or so. It ups the ante in every part of the game with DUST and rewards those who do well no matter what they skilled into Would it make everyone rich? would make players careful in bringing out the good stuff but at least if they knew they would get paid for killing the good stuff then its their choice Armor vs Shield - Shield is weaker in every single battle when against an armor tank, if both tanks have the same fit the shield fit will generally lose and lose badly Armor has great resistance modules - 60sec on 15 sec cooldown, 25% resist, keep it as it is its fine since everything which is not a FG hurts armor alot more Shield on the other hand - 10sec on 30sec cooldown,30% resist, it's not good at all even for a hit and run player it simply doesn't last long enough against AV or tanks, now if it was improved and lasted for 30sec on and 30sec off then it would be alot better and shield would hopefully be used a bit more and could stand up to a bit more punishment Shield Boosters - Generally on a 5k tank the booster reps about 1.5 back with the best booster doing 328HP per pulse where as the best armor repper does 414HP per pulse not including skills, max skills increase rep rate by 15% so shield can rep about 1900 where as armor is closer to 2400. The difference being 500hp which takes 19sec to passively rep back using the passive shield recharge rate, a slight buff would help so it doesn't take more than 2 uses of the boost to get back to full shield or thereabouts Passive shield tanking - In EVE it's an option, you can passive tank at over 50HP/s or more which is okay but in DUST you can't do that, even using shield recharging modules barely pushes it up above 40 and that is using the Ward shield regenerator x3 on a Gunlogi and max shield recharging skills. Also in EVE adding shield extenders also adds to the passive recharge rate which doesnt happen in DUST Speed should also be on the shield side, stats wise both tanks are the same after the armor tank has a plate put on it but without armor is faster even though as a base it has at least 1k armor more and more armor should mean more mass so the acceleration would be slower but top speed maybe slightly faster due to more mass and espc if you go downhill but with that said the shield tank should be faster in general from rotation to acceleration to general movement speed Locking vehicles - Should be 3 types of locks, squad lock, corp lock and just a general lock everyone out Kicking players out of vehicles - We have a couple of face buttons spare to use but also we might not want to kick out all the turret users if you're a DS pilot, so we could have a flat kick everyone out of the vehicle including players at turrets as a short term measure. Long term we would like to be able to boot selective players ie all those not at a turret or even the left side turret guy Mobile supply depot - Exactly as it sounds and is like the MCRU, can be fitted to vehicles and made as standard in Logi LAV/DS and even HAV if they make a Logi variant Vehicle modules - We seem to be missing advanced/proto mods, we have also just light and heavy reppers/boosters and shield extenders (armor plates have 60/120 and 180 plates) and we will need medium reppers/boosters/shield extenders for MAVs Vehicles without turrets - It is our vehicle, we should be able to do what we want with it, plus if we can remove turrets we can come up with more fits and uses for vehicles Advanced /Proto vehicles - Should have more base shield/armor/CPU/PG and slots than the HAV/LAV/DS before it just like dropsuits, also when advanced/proto vehicles are added and with more slots put the extra slots in the correct areas. Example - Surya - 3high 5low - The extra slot is the 3rd high slot which on an armor tank is kinda useless, that was we classed as an advanced tank or as advanced as we could get but proto AV still hurt it and hit very hard, if that extra slot was added to the lows we may have been able to tank slightly better and survive longer (just)
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1216	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:04:00 - [3] - Quote Full customisable controls - For DS3 & KB + M - I would love to be able to assign keys or empty face buttons to boosters and heat sinks or whatever i deemed as important enough to get its own button, also i wouldnt mind moving keys around Example - Keyboard - E is used for entering & exiting a vehicle, problem for me is that it is next to the W which is used for moving forwards and sometime i press E by accident instead of pressing W, i would like to move the entering & exiting button to M for example so it is as far away as possible and i dont press it by accident unless my cat jumps on the keyboard Dropships Logi DS - They are good with an inbuilt MCRU, I also feel they should have an inbuilt supply depot which would refill ammo and nades, this would also make the DS useful and it would be used as a taxi more often ferrying players from point to point Lack of WP - No WP except for kill assists atm, it's wrong it stops them from using MCRUs and ferry players across the battlefield Need the HP buff - All vehicles got it except DS and they are already like a paper brick Assault dropships - Firing the pilots turret is easy, aiming on the otherhand is guesswork and with practise you can work it out using the 3rd person camera because the FPV mode from the dropship is useless unless you want to nosedive the dropship everytime you want to shoot at someone. We need a turret camera so you can look down at the ground without having to crash or use TPV mode, plus it needs to be independent from the vehicle flight controls slightly so you can move the turret around without having to move the dropship if you dont want to. I suggest use the left analog stick for the turret controls and use the right analog stick for moving the dropship backwards/forwards/left and right but only when you are using the turret camera so once you exit the turret camera the controls revert to what they usually are and you can escape or do whatever Countermeasures - Especially needed against swarms, you cannot outrun swarms generally and you can hide in your redline so they cut out but if your trying to support your ground troops with players spawning from the MCRU or even taking a risk and repping a HAV for example you are a sitting duck while hovering. We need ECM to disable to lock and also prevent the lock onto vehicles, also armor HAVs could use this module and since it would be against SL which target armor i would see this being a high slot module which requires CPU and 0 PG and recharges every min but is used for say 30sec as an example Flying - The chromosome build i felt was the best build to fly a dropship, they were responsive and did what you asked of them, this build they are very temperamental and will not hover and stay still and will consistently move and slightly turn like a gust of wind is moving the DS LAV Militia LAV - Take away its HP buff, also add an ISK value to it, Militia HAV/DS cost ISK like 138-60k for the HAV so why are LAVs free? Make it cost 20k per LAV and if it costs ISK then the spam will be decreased except for those with BPO LAVs Weight - All LAV are generally light as a feather and flip far too easily, they need to have more weight added to them and stiffer suspension so they don't bounce around on the terrain like a kid on a bouncy castle HAV Enforcer HAVs - Remove them, they are not useful at all, I see them stomp around in ambush matches more than in a PC match, glass cannons with not enough firepower to boot and a basic tank can take them out every time The description on the Enforcers is also misleading and wrong 'The Enforcer class possesses the greatest damage output and offensive reach of all HAVs' Shield Enforcer - Bonus to missiles - Medium range if that, generally not too good at medium due to missile flight time Armor Enforcer - Bonus to Blasters - Short range weapon, CQC beast Only turret we have which is capable of long range is the railgun and it will continue to be until Lasers and Artillery turrets are added Impact damage - A LAV has no problem running over a player, a HAV on the other hand seems to push them across the map until you go over a bump and the player ends up under the HAV then they will die, they don't even take a little bit of the damage when you are pushing them Turrets Railguns - Faster projectile speed, it's still quite slow, its slow enough to see the shell dip on long range shots and you do have to lead your shots, the railgun is supposed to fire shells at high velocity speeds (3,500m/s) so it should be an instant hit no matter how far away the target is since the range limit is 600m Railguns - Range is capped 600m, maybe with the current size of the maps i can see why but if and when maps become larger and draw distance is increased i feel so should the range of the railgun and perhaps the FG too since it uses the same technology Railguns - Assault FG has a 3m blast radius with 277 splash where as the particle cannon does 2.5m blast radius and 234 splash, once again the handheld version does more splash and has a bigger damage radius than the vehicle mounted railgun Skills Vehicle engineering - We need that 5% PG per level, dropsuits get it but vehicles don't, its totally unfair Shield/ Armor core upgrades - They used to add 5% shield/armor per level and instead they got replaced with 2% shield/armor resistance per level and the missing HP got added to all vehicles except dropships. So this means if you have no vehicles skills you still get that extra HP because it was added to all vehicles. This takes away a little bit of specialization from vehicle users, we should have the 5% shield/armor per level because once again dropsuits get skills which increase shield/armor by 5% per level
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1216	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:04:00 - [4] - Quote Logi vehicles - All logi vehicles should get the 2% bonus to shield/armor resistances Logi vehicles - Currently you only need level 1 to use a Logi vehicle, I would hope in the future that level 3 & 5 would give access to 2 advanced/proto Logi vehicles which are slightly better but at the cost of more SP and ISK PG/CPU saving skills - They are everywhere, even on mods which require more PG than CPU or vice versa, take vehicle engineering saving 5% CPU per level on a mod that uses 20CPU so you save 5 CPU which is generally useless All vehicle command skills in general - In comparison with the dropsuit skills they have more choice but also the skills follow a set pattern, get a basic frame to whatever level and then you can unlock the next set of specialized dropsuits Now this does happen with the vehicles to get the Enforcers or the Logi LAV/DS but what we are missing are the advanced/prototype basic HAV/LAV/DS and also the advanced and prototype Logi LAV/DS and Enforcers which are slightly better than the next one, has more slots/CPU/PG to boot but also cost more SP and ISK at levels 3 & 5 Also its in general discussions where it gets ignored https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 118	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:11:00 - [5] - Quote some truly shocking opinions on the swarm launcher you have there Lock on needs a buff not a nerf - LLAV and HAV need multiple swarms to kill/drive away Missles shouldn't turn on a 6 pence - Shouldn't be trying to run people over, the missles are too stupid and this is one of their saving graces when you get leroyed by a mook aiming a LAV at you Damage against shields is lol and should be boosted Swarms don't need any skill - true until you realise that anything between you and your target is getting hit, be it your own team or that mountain on the other side of the map, you need to lead your target as much as any other weapon at times, esp when taking on manned turrets or HAV hiding round corners so... targeting reticle needs to increase in size
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 269	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:11:00 - [6] - Quote No Tl:Dr version uggh... give me an hour or so
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1216	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:16:00 - [7] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: some truly shocking opinions on the swarm launcher you have there Lock on needs a buff not a nerf - LLAV and HAV need multiple swarms to kill/drive away Missles shouldn't turn on a 6 pence - Shouldn't be trying to run people over, the missles are too stupid and this is one of their saving graces when you get leroyed by a mook aiming a LAV at you Damage against shields is lol and should be boosted Swarms don't need any skill - true until you realise that anything between you and your target is getting hit, be it your own team or that mountain on the other side of the map, you need to lead your target as much as any other weapon at times, esp when taking on manned turrets or HAV hiding round corners so... targeting reticle needs to increase in size Doesnt need a buff, all you do is lock on and fire no skill needed and the missiles do all the work LAV gives you and option to do just that, missiles turn instantly on the spot which is BS and is clearly broken, if i avoid the missiles then generally they should arc around but problem is missiles would hit ojects and the enviroment and prob ppl would complain Shields have resistances to SL because missiles are explosive damage dealing, shield are effected by EM and kinetic i think You dont lead your target, you lock on and let the missiles do the work
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 269	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:19:00 - [8] - Quote Alot of your numbers are on the extreme end 25% 50% etc. I wouldn't touch any of these stats with more than one or two 10 to 15% changes at a time. This kind of change(large numbers of large stat changes) would complete change the battlefield in ways you couldn't predict and could crumple any semblance of balance we have now in a second. I agree Militia variation should lose 10% damage(Av respectively) or HP(vehicle respectively) but dont change any of the other tiers. If you make the milita version weaker more people with use basic and above this means you would get more raw data on the basic+ equipment so you can make more reasonable adjustments rather than altering everything in one go. Hold off on changes in mechanics until you see what happens when more people use basic+ version. however I would like to see SL version that require you to hold the lock for more damage but that should only be a variation not standard for the low tiers. EDIT: YES get rid of 90 degree turns for missiles
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 269	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:22:00 - [9] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: [quote=Obodiah Garro] You dont lead your target, you lock on and let the missiles do the work Guess you don't use the SL competitively? in tight or closed in area or simply firing from behind cover requires know the trajectory the missiles are going to take. Swarms arn't to smart there is some skill required to use them to the best effect.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 118	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:26:00 - [10] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: [quote=Obodiah Garro] You dont lead your target, you lock on and let the missiles do the work Guess you don't use the SL competitively? in tight or closed in area or simply firing from behind cover requires know the trajectory the missiles are going to take. Swarms arn't to smart there is some skill required to use them to the best effect. I use SL all the time I know its problems quite well, Englishsnakes assessment of them is far of the mark.

Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 269	Posted - 2013.06.10 17:28:00 - [11] - Quote That wasnt directed at you Garro it was directed at Snake i dont even know what your name is still in the quote
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1220	Posted - 2013.06.10 20:08:00 - [12] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Ops Fox wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: [quote=Obodiah Garro] You dont lead your target, you lock on and let the missiles do the work Guess you don't use the SL competitively? in tight or closed in area or simply firing from behind cover requires know the trajectory the missiles are going to take. Swarms arn't to smart there is some skill required to use them to the best effect. I use SL all the time I know its problems quite well, Englishsnakes assessment of them is far of the mark. Ive used em ive gone against em they alway hit and follow around corners since they 1st go to where the target was then move towards where the target is No leading is required, never had to lead and in CQC i got AV nades then out pops the SL when he backs off
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 213	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:44:00 - [13] - Quote Repost from General Discussion thread where English Snake put up the exact same post. I think the FG has better damage than the rail turret for the simple reason that the FG is carried by a merc that will be OHK by any rail turret, while the tank/installation, will take, on the average, 3 hits to kill. Breach FG, with the longest charge time, also renders the wielder immobile while it's charging/charged making them an easy target. Reducing the FG damage by 50% will result in the FG getting few to no kills as by the time the FG wielder fires 4 shots and reloads, the tank is usually out of range for the 5th shot. BTW... FG range is 300. Disregarding militia vehicles, there is no AV weapon that can OHK a HAV except, maybe, an officer breach if there is one. However, a direct hit by a rail turret always results in a OHK against any infantry, even heavies. Base charge times for forge guns, between each shot, are... Assault: 2.5sec Standard: 3.5sec Breach: 6sec Large rail turret base times are... Regulated/Standard: .3sec charge with a 1sec fire interval. Regulated has better tracking. Compressed: .3sec charge with a 2.2sec fire interval. So let's compare how many shots the large rail turret fires based on optimal base charge and fire of one shot from a FG if the two pulled the trigger at the same time. Regulated/Standard Rail vs Assault FG: 3 shots. Regulated/Standard Rail vs Standard FG: 4 shots. Compressed Rail vs Breach FG: 3 shots. The dynamic changes a bit if you go with the average of 3 forge shots to kill an HAV. I'll try to take into account managing heat on the rail turret. Regulated/Standard Rail vs Assault FG: 6 shots. Regulated/Standard Rail vs Standard FG: 8 shots. Compressed Rail vs Breach FG: 8 shots. So, when it comes to damage output over time, large rail tanks are way above FG not to mention that large rail turrets have twice the range of a FG.
Takahiro Kashuken Red STar. EoN. 629	Posted - 2013.07.09 11:39:00 - [14] - Quote bump
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 87	Posted - 2013.07.09 11:53:00 - [15] - Quote You need to update it: Railguns now only get a 5% boost from skills.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 208	Posted - 2013.07.09 14:29:00 - [16] - Quote I just want to point out that the best armor rep does not do 2400 armor, but over 6000 armor compared to the shield booster that doesn't even do 2000. This is one of the biggest problems that's causing such a massive imbalance. The way armor reps work: amount repaired per pulse is actually amount repaired per second throughout the active time of the armor rep (for a total of 15 seconds of reps to equal over 6000 for the best armor rep) Shield boosters: total of 5 pulses that each boost shield for one second with a two second pause. In the end, armor reps and shield boosters are active for roughly the same amount of time, except that armor reps repair 3x as much. Otherwise, very good post.
THE TRAINSPOTTER ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN 0	Posted - 2013.07.09 14:36:00 - [17] - Quote In short , nerf LAV's... No thx
Wojciak Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 51	Posted - 2013.07.09 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote: In short , nerf LAV's... No thx In short nerf Milt LAVs not all LAVs
Takahiro Kashuken Red STar. EoN. 629	Posted - 2013.07.09 15:00:00 - [19] - Quote Updated OP with various edits
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 327	Posted - 2013.07.09 18:47:00 - [20] - Quote Wojciak wrote: THE TRAINSPOTTER wrote: In short , nerf LAV's... No thx In short nerf Milt LAVs not all LAVs this

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 646	Posted - 2013.07.10 11:25:00 - [21] - Quote Bump
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 646	Posted - 2013.07.11 11:23:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Bump
ImpureMort Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 124	Posted - 2013.07.11 14:55:00 - [23] - Quote hmm one thing i might like to add english snake if you take a charybdis and jack its shields up to 3500 it does move slower and heavier, and it is much harder to flip. i mean you wouldn't think so would you? shields having no weight, but then this is dust. see for yourself ..try 2 local 2 azeotropic extenders st1 missile feel how it moves. :D
ImpureMort Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 124	Posted - 2013.07.11 14:57:00 - [24] - Quote +1 for vehicle lock
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 647	Posted - 2013.07.11 16:07:00 - [25] - Quote ImpureMort wrote: hmm one thing i might like to add english snake if you take a charybdis and jack its shields up to 3500 it does move slower and heavier, and it is much harder to flip. i mean you wouldn't think so would you? shields having no weight, but then this is dust. see for yourself ..try 2 local 2 azeotropic extenders st1 missile feel how it moves. :D Why would i do that? I prefer to get my resistances to 60% anyways so even if it does flip it can surivive long enough to get reflipped and gtfo
Pro'fane RestlessSpirits 8	Posted - 2013.07.11 22:25:00 - [26] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Basic problems Militia AV - It's too good, alot of players do use them against basic vehicles, you want players to try them out sure but you also want players to specialize into AV if they like it. Reduce militia AV by 50% damage Hate to tell you this, but that militia AV didn't do jack to you. It was the 3-9 advanced or proto grenades that were thrown before it. That little blueberry with the militia gear just got lucky enough to throw the last one. Trust me, I've had a lot of tank kills 'stolen' from me by basic AVs. Quote: Militia Vehicles - The LAV is generally too good now since the HP buff, even the HAV got a HP buff which wasn't needed, so remove the buff to militia vehicles, dropship stays the same. This would generally stop militia LAV as murder taxis since they would be more like paper so easier to take out They all need the buffs lowered. I threw three Lai Dais (packed proto) at an Onokuma that wasn't moving once. To be fair, I think the first fell slightly short. But it should not have taken more than one to destroy it. That's a packed proto AV vs a militia vehicle. I can take out a half-shielded Madrugar with three packed Lai Dais. LAV having the same resistance as an HAV? C'mon. Nevermind that damned yellow logi LAV that can't be destroyed at all. Quote: AV nades - Many assault/logis use this as their main source of AV because they are skilled mostly into their primary and dropsuit/mods, problem is they are very good for knocking out a HAV on its own, the nades should be more of a deterrent and not as a standalone AV weapon to be put next to the SL/FG/PL, it should be used with the AV weapons. I would reduce the damage by 25-50%, also it would help if we could see how much damage they do to begin with You vehicle people continuously complain about AVs. You need to learn how to play with your team. You are not a one-man army. You are support. If you are close enough to infantry to get AV'ed enough to die, you deserved it. Want to know how to stay alive? Get your team to kill the infantry around you so they can't AV you. Same thing with swarms. You need your team to be killing people trying to take you out instead of assuming you should be the only unkillable thing on the field. I know this from actually playing with my clan's tankers.
Pro'fane RestlessSpirits 8	Posted - 2013.07.11 22:41:00 - [27] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Now the problem is we can't really change AV as such because we don't have advanced/proto vehicles and if/when they are added if they are stronger and have more armor/shield and it can stand up to proto then the jobs a good one. So for now we have to deal with proto AV vs basic vehicles or to balance the playing field until advanced/proto vehicles are added temporarily remove advanced/proto AV so its basic AV going against basic vehicles. I know this option will not go down well to AV guys skilled into proto but also think of it this way, how would you like to not even be able to dent a stationary proto HAV because you are basic AV? you wouldn't and how many players including infantry would call for the removal of proto vehicles if this was the case? the vast majority would want them removed First you want to reduce the damage, now you want to remove them. I won't repeat my earlier suggestion. I will say that until they severely downgrade the murder taxis, you've no business asking for proto AVs to be removed or nerfed. Frankly, given that they nerfed them with Uprising (homing is so screwed up that they now bounce off of vehicles and explode in your face), I don't see it as necessary. Quote: Armor vs Shield - Shield is weaker in every single battle when against an armor tank, if both tanks have the same fit the shield fit will generally lose and lose badly Armor has great resistance modules - 60sec on 15 sec cooldown, 25% resist, keep it as it is its fine since everything which is not a FG hurts armor alot more Shield on the other hand - 10sec on 30sec cooldown,30% resist, it's not good at all even for a hit and run player it simply doesn't last long enough against AV or tanks, now if it was improved and lasted for 30sec on and 30sec off then it would be alot better and shield would hopefully be used a bit more and could stand up to a bit more punishment No. They shouldn't be even. Wanna know why? Shield tanks are harder to kill on foot. You need multiple people with different weapons to take them out. Everything is supposed to have a weakness, which means armor tanks are shield tanks' weakness. Quote: Shield Boosters - Generally on a 5k tank the booster reps about 1.5 back with the best booster doing 328HP per pulse where as the best armor repper does 414HP per pulse not including skills, max skills increase rep rate by 15% so shield can rep about 1900 where as armor is closer to 2400. The difference being 500hp which takes 19sec to passively rep back using the passive shield recharge rate, a slight buff would help so it doesn't take more than 2 uses of the boost to get back to full shield or thereabouts Advanced /Proto vehicles - Should have more base shield/armor/CPU/PG and slots than the HAV/LAV/DS before it just like dropsuits, also when advanced/proto vehicles are added and with more slots put the extra slots in the correct areas. Again, *you* are not a one-man army. You require and are support. I regularly jump in clan members' tanks, both to be a gunner and to be on-site support when infantry gets too close. I've watched a tank take 8-10 swarm hits before finally taking the wrong road though AV alley. You guys can take a lot of damage and not get destroyed. What you keep asking for is to be nearly indestructible so that you can drive through a herd of red dots and not die. The HAVs are fairly well-balanced at this point, but they do require a lot more strategy and teamwork than a dropsuit. Most tankers do not lose 5-15 tanks a round. They lose one, maybe two. Most decent tankers will lose none. That's evidence enough that tanks are fairly balanced.
Pro'fane RestlessSpirits 8	Posted - 2013.07.11 22:44:00 - [28] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Logi vehicles - All logi vehicles should get the 2% bonus to shield/armor resistances Logi vehicles - Currently you only need level 1 to use a Logi vehicle, I would hope in the future that level 3 & 5 would give access to 2 advanced/proto Logi vehicles which are slightly better but at the cost of more SP and ISK stares angrily NO. Not unless running people over ceases to be an option. Those stupid logi LAVs are impossible to kill so you get a guy in it and he spends an entire game running people down. A dozen AVs thrown at him, never even shakes the shield.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 647	Posted - 2013.07.12 11:24:00 - [29] - Quote Pro'fane wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Basic problems Militia AV - It's too good, alot of players do use them against basic vehicles, you want players to try them out sure but you also want players to specialize into AV if they like it. Reduce militia AV by 50% damage Hate to tell you this, but that militia AV didn't do jack to you. It was the 3-9 advanced or proto grenades that were thrown before it. That little blueberry with the militia gear just got lucky enough to throw the last one. Trust me, I've had a lot of tank kills 'stolen' from me by basic AVs. Quote: Militia Vehicles - The LAV is generally too good now since the HP buff, even the HAV got a HP buff which wasn't needed, so remove the buff to militia vehicles, dropship stays the same. This would generally stop militia LAV as murder taxis since they would be more like paper so easier to take out They all need the buffs lowered. I threw three Lai Dais (packed proto) at an Onokuma that wasn't moving once. To be fair, I think the first fell slightly short. But it should not have taken more than one to destroy it. That's a packed proto AV vs a militia vehicle. I can take out a half-shielded Madrugar with three packed Lai Dais. LAV having the same resistance as an HAV? C'mon. Nevermind that damned yellow logi LAV that can't be destroyed at all. Quote: AV nades - Many assault/logis use this as their main source of AV because they are skilled mostly into their primary and dropsuit/mods, problem is they are very good for knocking out a HAV on its own, the nades should be more of a deterrent and not as a standalone AV weapon to be put next to the SL/FG/PL, it should be used with the AV weapons. I would reduce the damage by 25-50%, also it would help if we could see how much damage they do to begin with You vehicle people continuously complain about AVs. You need to learn how to play with your team. You are not a one-man army. You are support. If you are close enough to infantry to get AV'ed enough to die, you deserved it. Want to know how to stay alive? Get your team to kill the infantry around you so they can't AV you. Same thing with swarms. You need your team to be killing people trying to take you out instead of assuming you should be the only unkillable thing on the field. I know this from actually playing with my clan's tankers. Milita AV can dish out 1200damager per shot, more against armor/shield depending what it hitting and what they are using, you want ppl to skill up into proper AV then make milita worse than basic All the buffs do not need to be taken off, the reason buffs were added to vehicles is because they took away skills which added 5% shield/armor per level for vehicle users while dropsuits still have skills that add 5% shield/armor per level. If vehicles get them skills back then take off the buffs for the other vehicles. milita should be like paper AV nades get thrown from places we cannot see most of the time, launched behind cover by a NFL quaterback from a stuipd range while doing the damage which is even higher than my vehicle mounted proto railgun, you can easily throw 3 AV nades by the time they die, its why tanks railgun sniper mostly because AV nades hit too hard and too quickly and you cannot do anything about it, if you send in a squad to get rid of them they why do you need the tank? Swarms lol so im going to have 4 snipers with me to get that bunny hopping SL user up on the hill?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 647	Posted - 2013.07.12 11:29:00 - [30] - Quote Pro'fane wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Now the problem is we can't really change AV as such because we don't have advanced/proto vehicles and if/when they are added if they are stronger and have more armor/shield and it can stand up to proto then the jobs a good one. So for now we have to deal with proto AV vs basic vehicles or to balance the playing field until advanced/proto vehicles are added temporarily remove advanced/proto AV so its basic AV going against basic vehicles. I know this option will not go down well to AV guys skilled into proto but also think of it this way, how would you like to not even be able to dent a stationary proto HAV because you are basic AV? you wouldn't and how many players including infantry would call for the removal of proto vehicles if this was the case? the vast majority would want them removed First you want to reduce the damage, now you want to remove them. I won't repeat my earlier suggestion. I will say that until they severely downgrade the murder taxis, you've no business asking for proto AVs to be removed or nerfed. Frankly, given that they nerfed them with Uprising (homing is so screwed up that they now bounce off of vehicles and explode in your face), I don't see it as necessary. Quote: Armor vs Shield - Shield is weaker in every single battle when against an armor tank, if both tanks have the same fit the shield fit will generally lose and lose badly Armor has great resistance modules - 60sec on 15 sec cooldown, 25% resist, keep it as it is its fine since everything which is not a FG hurts armor alot more Shield on the other hand - 10sec on 30sec cooldown,30% resist, it's not good at all even for a hit and run player it simply doesn't last long enough against AV or tanks, now if it was improved and lasted for 30sec on and 30sec off then it would be alot better and shield would hopefully be used a bit more and could stand up to a bit more punishment No. They shouldn't be even. Wanna know why? Shield tanks are harder to kill on foot. You need multiple people with different weapons to take them out. Everything is supposed to have a weakness, which means armor tanks are shield tanks' weakness. Quote: Shield Boosters - Generally on a 5k tank the booster reps about 1.5 back with the best booster doing 328HP per pulse where as the best armor repper does 414HP per pulse not including skills, max skills increase rep rate by 15% so shield can rep about 1900 where as armor is closer to 2400. The difference being 500hp which takes 19sec to passively rep back using the passive shield recharge rate, a slight buff would help so it doesn't take more than 2 uses of the boost to get back to full shield or thereabouts Advanced /Proto vehicles - Should have more base shield/armor/CPU/PG and slots than the HAV/LAV/DS before it just like dropsuits, also when advanced/proto vehicles are added and with more slots put the extra slots in the correct areas. Again, *you* are not a one-man army. You require and are support. I regularly jump in clan members' tanks, both to be a gunner and to be on-site support when infantry gets too close. I've watched a tank take 8-10 swarm hits before finally taking the wrong road though AV alley. You guys can take a lot of damage and not get destroyed. What you keep asking for is to be nearly indestructible so that you can drive through a herd of red dots and not die. The HAVs are fairly well-balanced at this point, but they do require a lot more strategy and teamwork than a dropsuit. Most tankers do not lose 5-15 tanks a round. They lose one, maybe two. Most decent tankers will lose none. That's evidence enough that tanks are fairly balanced. AV nerfed lolno, you mean buffed in the last 4 builds Remove proto AV vs basic vehicles, imagine if it was proto vehicles vs basic AV the entire forums would be filled with crying because tanks would be impossible to kill lol wants to keep armor super strong when compared to shield, you are an idiot Asking fro proto vehicles which will include CPU/PG/HP increases and more slots for mods yet once again infantry player doesnt want it because he cant kill it with his AR Well balanced? lolno gtfo



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