DUST Search - The LAV Debacle and Possible Solutions

hooc order wrote:

DS 10 wrote:

hooc order wrote:

ladwar wrote:

hooc order wrote:

"Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you"

Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn.

Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not.

his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role.
this and this threads have yet to receive a response from the devs and they do need it.

Go to the video and when he says "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you".

See where he is standing? Derpy derpy derp derp.

Ever played any FPS that is not this crap pile we call dust where a person can just stand in the middle of the road and annihilate everyone he sees with no cover what so ever?

Are we seriously saying LAVs are even remotely a problem compared to what you are seeing in the video?

Hell if anything the video shows LAVs need a buff so such horrible game play is less possible.

There is a Planet side 2 video floating around the forums...go look at that for a comparison.

The gameplay is irrelevant. Go play Ambush and count LAVs.

I avoid ambush because it is a protostomp and when i get stuck in an ambush because my squad leader wants to play it i jump in an LAV because that is the only way for someone with only 2.3 million SP to kill anyone reliably....it is also why you are standing in the middle of the road annihilating everyone without one inch of cover. (well that and AR range is idiotic)

The lav "problem" is directly related to the game play in your video. The entire SP/leveling system has broken this game and you even admitted in one of your videos. Hey news flash PC and faction warfare did not pull the 10 million SP players out of Pub matches.

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 416	Posted - 2013.06.10 00:37:00 - [1] - Quote In this video, I discuss my opinions of the LAV issue as both a driver and AV specialist. Hopefully CCP understands the issues the LAVs are causing for the game as a whole. http://youtu.be/kD9XyW9P-fo If you could "fix" LAVs, what would you do?
Vethosis Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 279	Posted - 2013.06.10 00:38:00 - [2] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/Sp9yD3J.png a start
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 416	Posted - 2013.06.10 00:46:00 - [3] - Quote Vethosis wrote: http://i.imgur.com/Sp9yD3J.png a start I've never seen that bug. Sounds...interesting.
Vethosis Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 280	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:00:00 - [4] - Quote also a thread i made about 45 mins ago, go look at it!
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:05:00 - [5] - Quote I think your wrong. I think I know what CCP is thinking. AV good vs HAV/dropships which are good vs LAVs. HAVs/DS are meant to rain in control over the LAVs and AV is meant to destroy HAVs/DS, not LAVs. good old rock/paper/scissors. with the lose of HAVs LAVs are ruling the field.
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 416	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:11:00 - [6] - Quote ladwar wrote: I think your wrong. I think I know what CCP is thinking. AV good vs HAV/dropships which are good vs LAVs. HAVs/DS are meant to rain in control over the LAVs and AV is meant to destroy HAVs/DS, not LAVs. good old rock/paper/scissors. with the lose of HAVs LAVs are ruling the field. There has to be a counter for everything in the game. As it stands now, LAVs have no real viable option for infantry to use against them. If AV nades don't work against vehicles, why have them?
5tgbnm Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:14:00 - [7] - Quote Here is my fix, I actually made a vid explaining in detail the counter to the murdur taxi. http://youtu.be/9md61EpQ9sw?t=6m20s
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:16:00 - [8] - Quote there is a counter, its just not being used because it doesn't have balance with its counter leaving LAVs wide open to do as they please. and AV nades are effect on HAVs, I dare you to prove me wrong.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:17:00 - [9] - Quote 5tgbnm wrote: Here is my fix, I actually made a vid explaining in detail the counter to the murdur taxi. http://youtu.be/9md61EpQ9sw?t=6m20s I will not play PS2 on laptop. so go away with your locking of post.
5tgbnm Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:18:00 - [10] - Quote Its coming to ps4 this year dildow

ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:19:00 - [11] - Quote great.. till its on a console go away and adds nothing to thread.
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 416	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:32:00 - [12] - Quote ladwar wrote: there is a counter, its just not being used because it doesn't have balance with its counter leaving LAVs wide open to do as they please. and AV nades are effect on HAVs, I dare you to prove me wrong. If the counter doesn't work, is it still a counter?
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:43:00 - [13] - Quote ever seen a map with HAVs on one team and there other full of LAVs? I haven't
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 139	Posted - 2013.06.10 01:59:00 - [14] - Quote Proto swarms one shot free lavs and a lot of std lavs. I really don't have much of an issue with them. Logi LAVS can be annoying. I honestly have only come across one that was an immense pain the ass. My only gripe is logi LAVs surviving a minefield of proxies.
hooc order Deep Space Republic 292	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:02:00 - [15] - Quote "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. Also i get blown up in militia LAVs all the time with one AV nade. What the hell are you talking about?
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:05:00 - [16] - Quote hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1512	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:06:00 - [17] - Quote ladwar wrote: hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role. I've seen plenty of HAVs doing fine today
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 273	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:07:00 - [18] - Quote ladwar wrote: I think your wrong. I think I know what CCP is thinking. AV good vs HAV/dropships which are good vs LAVs. HAVs/DS are meant to rain in control over the LAVs and AV is meant to destroy HAVs/DS, not LAVs. good old rock/paper/scissors. with less HAVs LAVs are ruling the field.
hooc order Deep Space Republic 292	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:16:00 - [19] - Quote ladwar wrote: hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role. this and this threads have yet to receive a response from the devs and they do need it. Go to the video and when he says "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you". See where he is standing? Derpy derpy derp derp. Every played any FPS that is not this crap pile we call dust where a person can just stand in the middle of the road and annihilate everyone he sees with no cover what so ever? Are we seriously saying LAVs are even remotely a problem compared to what you are seeing in the video? Hell if anything the video shows LAVs need a buff so such horrible game play is less possible. There is a Planet side 2 video floating around the forums...go look at that for a comparison.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:18:00 - [20] - Quote Matakage wrote: ladwar wrote: I think your wrong. I think I know what CCP is thinking. AV good vs HAV/dropships which are good vs LAVs. HAVs/DS are meant to rain in control over the LAVs and AV is meant to destroy HAVs/DS, not LAVs. good old rock/paper/scissors. with less HAVs LAVs are ruling the field. So you're saying that in your ideal Dust 515 world, HAVs are the rock that beats LAVs scissors? I can't believe you really just said that. Wow. Am I the only one who thinks this is ridiculously stupid? so your telling me that LAVs kill HAVs normally...right btw PS2 you don't have to buy an item every time just to unlock it

DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 419	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:40:00 - [21] - Quote hooc order wrote: ladwar wrote: hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role. this and this threads have yet to receive a response from the devs and they do need it. Go to the video and when he says "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you". See where he is standing? Derpy derpy derp derp. Ever played any FPS that is not this crap pile we call dust where a person can just stand in the middle of the road and annihilate everyone he sees with no cover what so ever? Are we seriously saying LAVs are even remotely a problem compared to what you are seeing in the video? Hell if anything the video shows LAVs need a buff so such horrible game play is less possible. There is a Planet side 2 video floating around the forums...go look at that for a comparison. The gameplay is irrelevant. Go play Ambush and count LAVs.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 390	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:48:00 - [22] - Quote TBH, I'm always afraid to use my Charybdis everytime there's a tank on the enemy team. If there's 2 I just don't bother. It's not that I get killed easily by the blasters, it's that I can't run over people as easily when there's a tank around. Sometimes, Lai Dai grenades kill my heavy driver, don't know why.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 294	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:49:00 - [23] - Quote I've been doing some thinking on LAVs lately. I think our biggest problem is the fact that AV grenades, which were the designed counter to murder taxiing are pretty much completely worthless if an lav is moving at all. I think this has to do with the client server desync that is plaguing mass drivers too. The av grenades are hitting either too early and only do glancing damage at the edge their blast radius or too late and they are bouncing off the lav before actually going off, and I think it's because the client and server think the lav is in different places. It's the only thing I can think of... Cause av grenades worked beautifully in chromosome and are practically useless in uprising. They work fine for HAVs cause those are so big and slow.
hooc order Deep Space Republic 292	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:55:00 - [24] - Quote DS 10 wrote: hooc order wrote: ladwar wrote: hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role. this and this threads have yet to receive a response from the devs and they do need it. Go to the video and when he says "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you". See where he is standing? Derpy derpy derp derp. Ever played any FPS that is not this crap pile we call dust where a person can just stand in the middle of the road and annihilate everyone he sees with no cover what so ever? Are we seriously saying LAVs are even remotely a problem compared to what you are seeing in the video? Hell if anything the video shows LAVs need a buff so such horrible game play is less possible. There is a Planet side 2 video floating around the forums...go look at that for a comparison. The gameplay is irrelevant. Go play Ambush and count LAVs. I avoid ambush because it is a protostomp and when i get stuck in an ambush because my squad leader wants to play it i jump in an LAV because that is the only way for someone with only 2.3 million SP to kill anyone reliably....it is also why you are standing in the middle of the road annihilating everyone without one inch of cover. (well that and AR range is idiotic) The lav "problem" is directly related to the game play in your video. The entire SP/leveling system has broken this game and you even admitted in one of your videos. Hey news flash PC and faction warfare did not pull the 10 million SP players out of Pub matches.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 600	Posted - 2013.06.10 03:01:00 - [25] - Quote DS 10 wrote: hooc order wrote: ladwar wrote: hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role. this and this threads have yet to receive a response from the devs and they do need it. Go to the video and when he says "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you". See where he is standing? Derpy derpy derp derp. Ever played any FPS that is not this crap pile we call dust where a person can just stand in the middle of the road and annihilate everyone he sees with no cover what so ever? Are we seriously saying LAVs are even remotely a problem compared to what you are seeing in the video? Hell if anything the video shows LAVs need a buff so such horrible game play is less possible. There is a Planet side 2 video floating around the forums...go look at that for a comparison. The gameplay is irrelevant. Go play Ambush and count LAVs. did.. was zero
Brutus Va'Khan Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.10 03:14:00 - [26] - Quote Murder taxis are fairly even. A good av nade will one shot them. Even my hmg drills through them, assuming they're dumb enough to not run away. One thing that should be fixed is the damage. Hitting somebody at full speed should definitely kill them. Going mid speed should wound and anything less does little to no damage. Also, the vehicle takes damage based on the weight of the player run over.
DS 10 G I A N T EoN. 420	Posted - 2013.06.10 10:04:00 - [27] - Quote hooc order wrote: DS 10 wrote: hooc order wrote: ladwar wrote: hooc order wrote: "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you" Says the guy standing in the middle of the road between the objective and the enemy spawn. Your voice says the LAVs need a nerf yet the very video you are talking over shows they do not. his video just shows that HAVs need to be reworked because the can't fulfill their role. this and this threads have yet to receive a response from the devs and they do need it. Go to the video and when he says "Get up high up where the LAVs can't get you". See where he is standing? Derpy derpy derp derp. Ever played any FPS that is not this crap pile we call dust where a person can just stand in the middle of the road and annihilate everyone he sees with no cover what so ever? Are we seriously saying LAVs are even remotely a problem compared to what you are seeing in the video? Hell if anything the video shows LAVs need a buff so such horrible game play is less possible. There is a Planet side 2 video floating around the forums...go look at that for a comparison. The gameplay is irrelevant. Go play Ambush and count LAVs. I avoid ambush because it is a protostomp and when i get stuck in an ambush because my squad leader wants to play it i jump in an LAV because that is the only way for someone with only 2.3 million SP to kill anyone reliably....it is also why you are standing in the middle of the road annihilating everyone without one inch of cover. (well that and AR range is idiotic) The lav "problem" is directly related to the game play in your video. The entire SP/leveling system has broken this game and you even admitted in one of your videos. Hey news flash PC and faction warfare did not pull the 10 million SP players out of Pub matches. I definitely agree with you. Until there's some kind of matchmaking, Dust will struggle to grow. FW doesn't give any incentive to play them over public matches, and there are usually only a couple at a time. People want to play continuously. FW forces ~10 minutes or more between games.
Epicsting pro Planetary Response Organization 21	Posted - 2013.06.28 11:10:00 - [28] - Quote Well I've invested 1mill sp in my logi lav but what I see is the no shield counter if there was a way to destroy my shield fast it wouldbe fine. So here a back story for ya'll i max plasma cannon and proficieny. It can kill my shield logi lav in 3 shots 2 to destroy it shields and half it armor 3rd to finish off. The problem with av nades and swarms is that they're explosive witch get a penalty to shields. My logi lav has 40% shield resistance right now swarm and av nades do nothing to my shields, there needs to be a shield av nade if you want to kill my lav. Speed need to be a part of killing someone and lavs need to show up on radar.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 228	Posted - 2013.06.28 11:40:00 - [29] - Quote This is my possible solution for the logi LAV, flip them. For the MLT LAV i agree with a nerf on their total HP. But the problem with the LLAV is with the caldari, the limbus is hard to kill but not as hard as the charybids.
CPT Cave Man BurgezzE.T.F 1	Posted - 2013.06.28 12:04:00 - [30] - Quote If the characters didn't move at a snails pace, minus a speed tanked scout, then we could stand a chance jumping out of the way. CCP why did you make the suits move so damn slow?????

Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 35	Posted - 2013.06.28 14:50:00 - [31] - Quote hooc order wrote: I avoid ambush because it is a protostomp and when i get stuck in an ambush because my squad leader wants to play it i jump in an LAV because that is the only way for someone with only 2.3 million SP to kill anyone reliably.... Lol whut.
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted 84	Posted - 2013.06.28 14:53:00 - [32] - Quote I'd do this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90201&find=unread
Vin Vicious Capital Acquisitions LLC 168	Posted - 2013.07.11 07:39:00 - [33] - Quote No Reduce free LAV HP whatever, if you return LLAVs back to former HP they will be, LIKE the scout LAV, USELESS. (You hear that CCP go look at your graphs and stats, bet you my account theres 2-3 people with any real SP in scouts and they wish they could have that SP back.) An expensive paper cup that's what you want it reduced too, so it's an easy kill. You mentioned it takes three to four shots to take down an LLAV. How are you whining about that? My LLAV cost 500K+ and you want me to sit and accept that my half a mil combat support LLAV should be reduced to getting one or two shotted but an hale Mary AV nade? You mention it would return them back to what they previously were, do you even know what that was? They were cars, a fcuking toyota Prius, it got you from the MCC to the first objective and then it sat there til it blew up. I watched your buddy Drake and some other TP with a proto swarm and a proto forge sit on top of a building taking out LAVs left and right, Drake also got mine, which took three shots from the forge. He got me because he had perfect view of me from high ground. Making my move ability useless. Do you realize how hard it is to out maneuver swarms? How many times I've ducked behind hills or corners of buildings/walls only to have it go through the hill/corner and hit me. Both the forge charge animation and the incoming swarm animation does not work which makes it even harder. By reducing the HP and or reducing hardness of advance LAVs CCP destroys and play-style there by making LAVs, moms soccer van once AGIAN and once AGIAN buffing AV. Anyone familiar with my name knows I'm not a murder taxi.
Loki Keller Corvus Conspiracy 31	Posted - 2013.07.11 08:35:00 - [34] - Quote I wish LAV's would show up on the minimap better, and take some damage when running people down.
Soldiersaint Reaper Galactic 96	Posted - 2013.07.11 11:28:00 - [35] - Quote ladwar wrote: there is a counter, its just not being used because it doesn't have balance with its counter leaving LAVs wide open to do as they please. and AV nades are effect on HAVs, I dare you to prove me wrong. the counter is the swarm launcher. cmon guys are you serious? you complain about lavs but there weakness is right in front of you!
KaTaLy5t-87 Shadow Company HQ 77	Posted - 2013.07.11 14:17:00 - [36] - Quote As some people have already said, proto swarms are the answer to murder taxis I hope people keep calling them in becauseI can get 10+ kills in most matches from swarming LAVs. I prefer to play assault/slayer but in matches where there is an aabundance of murder taxis I'll just swap to my swarm fit, climb a building and swarm the crap out of every vehicle I see! This makes things bad for the raspberries who want to drive tanks and dropships. Due to the amount of murder taxis there are usually 2 to 4 proto AV guys on the field on my team. When the enemy calls in a tank it generally doesn't last long because of the amount of AV guys already deployed. Murder taxi drivers, you are only hurting yourselves and your fellow raspberries! Walk into the light and into my bullets instead of driving to your death 5 times in the same match I do think that Logi LAVs need some kind of penalty for having a high amount of HP, something like being a little slower. Most smart Logi LAV drivers can take a ton of hits from AV and run away behind something to recharge and repair which makes them kinda hard to kill.
Arc-08 Horizons' Edge Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:33:00 - [37] - Quote i say allow murder taxi to stay alive, but make it so that only scout LAV have the capability to murder taxi. :P i'm half kidding about that. but guys i have a great way to get people into scout lavs. just let me know if you think the idea has any chance of making it into the game https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1059290#post1059290
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 6	Posted - 2013.07.16 05:24:00 - [38] - Quote the projectile speed of all AV needs to be increased, drops ships out running swarms is ridiculous, i feel like i could drive a LAV faster than a forge gun shot and AV nades seek so slowly they never hit a LAV
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. League of Infamy 390	Posted - 2013.07.16 05:59:00 - [39] - Quote Brutus Va'Khan wrote: Murder taxis are fairly even. A good av nade will one shot them. Even my hmg drills through them, assuming they're dumb enough to not run away. One thing that should be fixed is the damage. Hitting somebody at full speed should definitely kill them. Going mid speed should wound and anything less does little to no damage. Also, the vehicle takes damage based on the weight of the player run over. You can one shot a LLAV with a av nade? That sounds like a lie to me since the darn things can have up to 20% damage resists before even having damage resist modules put on them. Heck, my AV nades usually bounce off (and detonate too late) or explode and only do glancing damage. I think that you are talking about militia LAV which are easy kills. I do like the idea of any vehicle taking damage when it hits a character. The damage should be based on the simply physics rule F = ma (force = mass time acceleration (Newton's second Law)) so hitting a scout at low speed would do relative litte damage to a LAV and even hitting one at full speed wouldn't be catastrophic. Hitting a full proto heavy with multiple complex armor plates sould be like hitting a brick wall though, basically ruining said LAV driver's day.
bacon blaster BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 72	Posted - 2013.07.16 18:59:00 - [40] - Quote A couple of problems with a lot of what I am seeing here: First, the logi lav is supposed to be a support role, like the logi suit. It is supposed to roll around and heal friendly infantry. However, because of it's massive speed and hp, I have NEVER once seen it used for anything resembling support. I have only ever seen them used for running people over. Simple fact, is, once a lav is up to speed, it can rampage around the battle field without ever getting touched by an av nade, and avoid the crap out of everything else. Lavs are not supposed to be high speed death machines, they are supposed to truck people about the field. Llavs are supposed to provide support, not impunity. They need some sort of nerf or av needs some sort of buff. Where it is right now, these stupid things can just roll about and murder people, and llavs can do it with near impunity. That kind of breaks the game and invalidates infantry everywhere that isn't too packed in for a vehicle to go (which is about 80% of the combined space of all the maps)

Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 444	Posted - 2013.07.16 19:20:00 - [41] - Quote A very simple way to solve this would be to implement a "lock vehicle" feature similar to how the "flip vehicle", "enter vehicle", and "recall vehicle" work. Simply add a "lock vehicle" option assigned to the triangle button when approaching your vehicle. The option to lock would only be available to the vehicle owner. (Player who originally qued or hacked the vehicle) You would still be able to hack a locked enemy vehicle. The option to lock vehicle would only be available for 15 seconds after exiting a vehicle. Once a vehicle is locked no one can enter the vehicle or switch seats, however a player may still exit the vehicle. Once a vehicle is locked it would no longer explode if left unattended. This way a player may still return to the vehicle after completion of a particularly lengthy engagement. As a side note implementation of this would also provide the basis for the removal of the free LAV, thereby alleviating some of the LAV spam murder taxiing, as players would be more willing to spec into a vehicle knowing they could prevent it from being stolen or destroyed by artificial means (unattended vehicle destruction).
WeapondigitX V7 Planetary Response Organization 32	Posted - 2013.07.17 14:21:00 - [42] - Quote LLAVs can be killed by having a basic logi suit with 2 equip slots. equip basic remote explosives and proxy mines. put remotes explosives and proxy mines in one big pile on the ground (6 mines all together). stand near them to lure LLAV towards you. make sure than mines are between you and LLAV. when LLAVs runs over mines you MUST manually detonate remote explosives just before the LLAV runs over them. more LLAV speed means you have to detonate them sooner. the proxy mines should detonate on time usually. You will usually kill the LLAV with this method and it is a way of killing them cheaply ISK wise. Or go proto proxy mines and proto remote explosives meaning more than 15 mines all together. that has got to be a guaranteed kill. This has been tested. The driver was wearing a proto logi caldari suit.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]