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[Suggestion] Paid Respec

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Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 3	Posted - 2013.06.09 18:09:00 - [1] - Quote I got my optional respec (still waiting) so I don't really care about this atm, but I WOULD have liked something like this to fix my problems instead of a full respec. This could be called a skill degenerator or something, used just like a booster, aurum bought item with a time limit that regains X.X amount of skill points per X.X amount of time. Purchase the booster and activate it, then players can choose certain skills they no longer want that will slowly return skill points to the unused pool. Similar to forgetting things you don't do often anymore and learning something else in real life. Players can only choose level 5 skills that have no other skills that require them, once a skill is chosen you lose all the benefits and cannot do anything with the skill until all the points are regained from it. Players can choose as many skills as they want and the skill points will be taken from them all at once or in a queue or however works best for the game. Players should keep in mind that selecting many expensive skills will mean you will need longer boost time or you will be locked out of those skills and their points until you buy more to complete. This could also have a skill point loss % meaning you wont get 100% back. Something like that anyway. Seems like a good trade off, with downsides to keep it from being abused but still allowing us to get out of a few bad choices. I would not consider this a pay to win type thing as it will basically just be another booster giving you more points to spend over time, in this case they would already be yours just returned. Just had this idea and thought I would share, I plan on being very cautious with my skills this time around, but that doesn't account for everything that could pop up or change with the game.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 433	Posted - 2013.06.09 22:51:00 - [2] - Quote Now THIS is a way respec would be sensible! One of the biggest reasons I've been against respecs is the instant nature of them in most suggestions. This way respeccing would involve heavy planning and time.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1119	Posted - 2013.06.09 23:20:00 - [3] - Quote I'm pretty deeply anit-respec (wall of text available upon request) however this proposal has merit. I'll have to think on it for a longer time before I'm totally sure of the idea but on first blush the concept does seem solid. I would make this one addition to it, make this booster a Passive booster just like the Omega and basic Passive. This provides a trade off to the players choice. They can either gain more unallocated SP or more total SP, combined with the other restrictions listed in the OP I do believe this method would avoid any P2W pitfalls and possible even the internal economic pitfalls as well (provided the rate at which SP was returned by this booster was scaled properly to avoid market shocks and FotM fickleness). On a related note a skills specialization booster (skill spikes anyone?) which during it's duration reduces the SP price of a specific skill specialization (say sensor skills) while raising the price of skills outside that specialization. Perhaps another method would be superior but some adaptation of the remap offered in EVE should, in my opinion, find it's way to Dust. Good idea OP Cheers, Cross
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 7	Posted - 2013.06.09 23:56:00 - [4] - Quote Thanks guys Having it replace one of the other boosters is a good idea too, would be a bit much having three going lol Another penalty could be losing remaining skill points if the booster runs out before all the points are regained, since it would be kinda weird to freeze it making people buy another booster and it would make people decide better how to use it.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Orion Empire 374	Posted - 2013.06.10 00:40:00 - [5] - Quote This is definitely a much more workable idea than what has been proposed in other occasions so i'll give it a +1 just for keeping the other side of the debate in mind. I still maintain the position that most of the issues that respecs are supposed to fix would be better of beeing adressed directly than to allow the relocation of SP to merely mask their consequences. We have to keep in mind that this proposition would not be needed in the first place if there was more and better information available regarding skills, gear and ongoing changes thereof.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 630	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:48:00 - [6] - Quote This is a very interesting idea. I'm with Cross on this; I'm very anti respec, but your idea does have merit. If the return on SP was taxed, the return rate slow and regular passive gains disabled I may not riot over this. Thanks for posting!
Raynedog Lightstar O.Q.R.D. 4	Posted - 2013.06.10 02:55:00 - [7] - Quote This idea seems to makes the most sense in terms of having the ability to change your build over time. It's logical to think that in a game where they will be constantly adding and changing the nature of skills, it would make sense to give some way for players to make adjustments. It may go a long way towards keeping some players invested long term. Good idea!
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 10	Posted - 2013.06.10 21:00:00 - [8] - Quote Thanks again guys! Only thing I have to add is, if it takes away passive, it needs to regain your SP at more than you would be gaining passively, you wouldn't be gaining new sp, but just be gaining spendable sp a bit faster. Might not be a bad idea to have it disable passive all together and gain your sp back at a faster rate instead, giving us at the least one reason to actually turn passive sp on one of our other characters instead of just making a new account (they need to do something about that too haha).
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1286	Posted - 2013.06.10 21:06:00 - [9] - Quote No, because at this point respecs should just be free until they can properly balance game mechanics instead of bringing down the nerf Mjolnir because someone went Michael Bolton on something's base stats by putting the decimal in the wrong place.
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 11	Posted - 2013.06.11 04:04:00 - [10] - Quote You shouldn't need to respec your whole guy for a few changes, if its that big of a change they will probably give sp back anyway.

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1306	Posted - 2013.06.11 04:30:00 - [11] - Quote I'm still waiting for my respec after the 1.1 changes...
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 11	Posted - 2013.06.11 20:19:00 - [12] - Quote Yeah me too.
Universal Decimator Interstellar Legionnaires 0	Posted - 2013.06.12 11:15:00 - [13] - Quote [quote=Major Lee High] I got my optional respec (still waiting) so I don't really care about this atm, but I WOULD have liked something like this to fix my problems instead of a full respec. This could be called a skill degenerator or something, used just like a booster, aurum bought item with a time limit that regains X.X amount of skill points per X.X amount of time. Purchase the booster and activate it, then players can choose certain skills they no longer want that will slowly return skill points to the unused pool. Similar to forgetting things you don't do often anymore and learning something else in real life. Players can only choose level 5 skills that have no other skills that require them, once a skill is chosen you lose all the benefits and cannot do anything with the skill until all the points are regained from it. Players can choose as many skills as they want and the skill points will be taken from them all at once or in a queue or however works best for the game. Players should keep in mind that selecting many expensive skills will mean you will need longer boost time or you will be locked out of those skills and their points until you buy more to complete. This could also have a skill point loss % meaning you wont get 100% back. Something like that anyway........................... Extremely great idea !!!!! also make it cost aurum, so if you mess up ur skills from now on its on U !
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 14	Posted - 2013.06.28 00:48:00 - [14] - Quote Yes should be just like the other boosters
XV1 Ninth Legion Freelance 29	Posted - 2013.06.28 07:15:00 - [15] - Quote Wow great idea! This would allow people to get their points out of the skills they bought to test items while also making them wait so its not a huge pool of SP gained.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 140	Posted - 2013.06.28 07:32:00 - [16] - Quote I am VERY anti respec but this is the best idea yet. Make it a diminishing return (you'll never get back 100% of the SP you had spent) and I think I'd agree on it. My reasoning for not returning the full amount is to discourage its use unless you REALLY think you wasted a good chunk of SP.
XV1 Ninth Legion Freelance 29	Posted - 2013.06.28 08:01:00 - [17] - Quote EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: I am VERY anti respec but this is the best idea yet. Make it a diminishing return (you'll never get back 100% of the SP you had spent) and I think I'd agree on it. My reasoning for not returning the full amount is to discourage its use unless you REALLY think you wasted a good chunk of SP. Edit: Make them limited time offers like Omega boosters, too If you have to wait for returns and especially if it has a diminishing return making it a limited time offer would be pointless. The Aurum cost should be enough to make people wonder if they should use it. Making it only work for a couple days or weeks after purchase would be the real penalty. Any time new content was released people would have to buy a new one if they waste SP.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 140	Posted - 2013.06.28 19:17:00 - [18] - Quote XV1 wrote: EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: I am VERY anti respec but this is the best idea yet. Make it a diminishing return (you'll never get back 100% of the SP you had spent) and I think I'd agree on it. My reasoning for not returning the full amount is to discourage its use unless you REALLY think you wasted a good chunk of SP. Edit: Make them limited time offers like Omega boosters, too If you have to wait for returns and especially if it has a diminishing return making it a limited time offer would be pointless. The Aurum cost should be enough to make people wonder if they should use it. Making it only work for a couple days or weeks after purchase would be the real penalty. Any time new content was released people would have to buy a new one if they waste SP. It would NOT be pointless. The fact that you would view it as so only proves my point that it would force people to seriously consider their reasoning for using one before trying to "respec" anything. Time to apply really doesn't matter, it's just a veil over the prize of respecing. Diminished returns reinforce the idea that you need to be careful with where you spend your SP.
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 341	Posted - 2013.06.28 19:23:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: No, because at this point respecs should just be free until they can properly balance game mechanics instead of bringing down the nerf Mjolnir because someone went Michael Bolton on something's base stats by putting the decimal in the wrong place. I'm the first to like this post? Shame on you uncouth youth. OP's idea is cool. If this idea is more acceptable to the players who don't want respecs to be an option, then I say so be it. You pay for it not just with aur, but with time. RP wise it seems feasible. I like it personally. If I decide I don't need level five nanohives, I can exchange it for something else I need more, but it takes time, which is what I like most.
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 17	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:29:00 - [20] - Quote Thanks again guys!! Perhaps making the booster only work for one skill at a time instead of a whole tree of them would be better (easier to control), having the basic booster return 1X skill points minus some % penalty, so you would need 8 of them to get out of a racial suit and it would take 8 times as long. If it took a week, with a penalty, you would gain just about as much as a passive with a booster, so that might not be worth it, 3 days might be too fast for 300k returned though, then again, 600 + active for a week is not way too much more than you would get normally, and really you would only be gaining the active SP overall. Plus the penalty that might not be too bad. Skillback Booster (3 days) - Fits into Passive Booster slot. Returns ~300,000 sp and only one skill can have it on at a time. You can't use the skill and lose it's bonuses once its active. If the booster timer expires before the skill points are returned, you lose all remaining skill points for that skill. 24 days to return most of the 2.4 million sp for racial suits if you wanted to do that, or 6 days to get out of a 2x weapon if you didn't go into the prof for it. Is that balanced enough or is that too fast? With boosters we get about 500k a week anyway I think, so this would let people get out of a skill and into a new one faster (the point of aurum anyway) without gaining total sp over everyone. Need some better maths

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3034	Posted - 2013.07.04 18:11:00 - [21] - Quote Hmm. After putting some careful thought on this, this may not be a bad idea. Since it's passive and slowly pulls SP from a skill over time and thus isn't exploitable, I can see this going places. On top of that, I like the idea that it also disables the regular passive gain. Congrats, Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1009985#post1009985 Quote: [SUGGESTION] Skillback booster https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread Update: An intriguing idea that the dev team will discuss further. You made the list.
darkiller240 INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION 29	Posted - 2013.07.04 18:42:00 - [22] - Quote +1
Spectral Clone The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 55	Posted - 2013.07.04 18:47:00 - [23] - Quote Very nice idea!
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 31	Posted - 2013.07.04 21:26:00 - [24] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Hmm. After putting some careful thought on this, this may not be a bad idea. Since it's passive and slowly pulls SP from a skill over time and thus isn't exploitable, I can see this going places. On top of that, I like the idea that it also disables the regular passive gain. Congrats, Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1009985#post1009985 Quote: [SUGGESTION] Skillback booster https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread Update: An intriguing idea that the dev team will discuss further. You made the list. Cool I feel special now, thanks for pointing that out XD
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 42	Posted - 2013.07.05 21:42:00 - [25] - Quote I feel like this is a little bit senseless. So to get out of bad choices you just get some points back from a skill a little bit faster than you would get passive SP? Why would I use that if I could just wait 2 or 3 days longer to get the SP for the skill I now actually want without removing another skill?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3059	Posted - 2013.07.05 22:50:00 - [26] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: I feel like this is a little bit senseless. So to get out of bad choices you just get some points back from a skill a little bit faster than you would get passive SP? Why would I use that if I could just wait 2 or 3 days longer to get the SP for the skill I now actually want without removing another skill? The principle reason some people have for wanting a respec is because they feel that the SP they wrongfully invested is wasted SP. A skill back booster would be a sound alternate because not only will it prevent people from instantly swapping to the flavor of the month, but it also comes with a cost of lost time because technically you not earning SP when the booster is active. You are just slowly getting back what you already have.
PalaceGuard Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 17	Posted - 2013.07.06 16:06:00 - [27] - Quote Major Lee High wrote: If the booster timer expires before the skill points are returned, you lose all remaining skill points for that skill. Passive SP gains are disabled while this booster is active. Overall, I like the concept. However, I'm probably misunderstanding this, but it sounds like an all or nothing situation. For example, if I wanted to dial back a skill from level 5 to level 3, how would this booster work? Beacause it reads like I have to redial a skill all the way down to 0. Also, should it be marketed as a time based booster that works for "x" amount of days, or as a skill point based booster that works for "y" amount of skill points? I think making it skill point based makes it clear to the buyer as to what they are getting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3073	Posted - 2013.07.07 04:03:00 - [28] - Quote PalaceGuard wrote: Major Lee High wrote: If the booster timer expires before the skill points are returned, you lose all remaining skill points for that skill. Passive SP gains are disabled while this booster is active. Overall, I like the concept. However, I'm probably misunderstanding this, but it sounds like an all or nothing situation. For example, if I wanted to dial back a skill from level 5 to level 3, how would this booster work? Beacause it reads like I have to redial a skill all the way down to 0. Also, should it be marketed as a time based booster that works for "x" amount of days, or as a skill point based booster that works for "y" amount of skill points? I think making it skill point based makes it clear to the buyer as to what they are getting. From what I understand, It is more than likely a time-based booster that slowly withdraws SP from a certain skill book across a certain time period. And considering that there are many skill levels that don't cost 300,000 SP in the beginning for level 1 or 2, chances are this skillback booster affects the skill book as a whole rather than in individual levels.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1248	Posted - 2013.07.10 17:42:00 - [29] - Quote Now that I know Devs are watching this thread, I'd like to emphasize that "Skillback Boosters" must tax the SP being returned. I do not want to see a 1:1 return. A 1:1 return is the same as having respecs albeit slower and likely more expensive. There needs to be a painful consequence for doing this to deter perpetual abuse. Ideally, "Skillback Boosters" should 'cost' ~30% of returned SP.
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 41	Posted - 2013.07.10 21:43:00 - [30] - Quote Yes I agree, it was suggested already to lose some SP and if it replaces the passive booster slot/disables passive you will be losing ALL of that additional SP while the booster is active, which can add up to a lot pretty fast!

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 79	Posted - 2013.07.12 07:39:00 - [31] - Quote I like this.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3271	Posted - 2013.07.12 23:43:00 - [32] - Quote I would recommend three tiers of the skill back booster. Tier 1 3-day long booster 150,000 SP returned Cost: 2,500 AUR Tier 2 7-day long booster 300,000 SP returned 7,000 aurum Tier 3 30-day long booster 1,000,000 returned 40,000 aurum Passive and active boosters disabled when in use. Limit one per year. It's not perfect, but can be fine tuned.
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 45	Posted - 2013.07.13 00:40:00 - [33] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I would recommend three tiers of the skill back booster. Tier 1 3-day long booster 150,000 SP returned Cost: 2,500 AUR Tier 2 7-day long booster 300,000 SP returned 7,000 aurum Tier 3 30-day long booster 1,000,000 returned 40,000 aurum Passive and active boosters disabled when in use. Limit one per year. It's not perfect, but can be fine tuned. That is less/almost just as much as you would gain with regular boosters so no one would use them, limiting it to once a year would not help at all since the main point is to give people an option all the time, they are going to demand respecs anyway. Shouldn't disable active either, just the loss of passive gained sp and a % from the skills should be enough.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3271	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:43:00 - [34] - Quote Like I said, it's not perfect and can be fine tuned. What figures would you purpose for tiers?
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 655	Posted - 2013.07.13 05:09:00 - [35] - Quote Major Lee High wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I would recommend three tiers of the skill back booster. Tier 1 3-day long booster 150,000 SP returned Cost: 2,500 AUR Tier 2 7-day long booster 300,000 SP returned 7,000 aurum Tier 3 30-day long booster 1,000,000 returned 40,000 aurum Passive and active boosters disabled when in use. Limit one per year. It's not perfect, but can be fine tuned. That is less/almost just as much as you would gain with regular boosters so no one would use them, limiting it to once a year would not help at all since the main point is to give people an option all the time, they are going to demand respecs anyway. Shouldn't disable active either, just the loss of passive gained sp and a % from the skills should be enough. I agree to this. While the values might be ok (some might want them cosiderably higher but i'm not yet sure if i'd agree to this), it shouldn't disable active boosters both for fiscal considerations (not buying boosters for the duration of skillback and not buying skillback before end of boosters) and to make skillback a viable alternative to normal gain. As the main concern of players that request respecs is the time required to change ones skillset, skillback boosters should provide a noticeable increase to effective "gain" (i.e. the total amount that can be spent into x) to make up both for the loss of potential passive SP and for the risk of lost surplus SP. I think blocking active boosters is the part in your otherwise sound idea that shifts this increase into the negative and we should aim to adjust the values so that any cooldowns can be avoided. I actually think your proposed numbers would already allow for that.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5007	Posted - 2013.07.13 18:52:00 - [36] - Quote Major Lee High wrote: Skillback Booster (3 days) - Fits into Passive Booster slot. Returns ~300,000 sp and only one skill can have it on at a time, as long as there are no skills that depend on it. You can't use the skill and lose it's bonuses once its active. If the booster timer expires before the skill points are returned, you lose all remaining skill points for that skill. Passive SP gains are disabled while this booster is active. I love it. I don't want full respecs, just options. I'd like to see stuff like this for free players as well, but I suppose we will once we finally get our player market. Then people can start selling and scamming boosters for oodles of ISKies and all will be right in the wallets of New Eden.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 297	Posted - 2013.07.13 22:52:00 - [37] - Quote blank
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 297	Posted - 2013.07.13 22:55:00 - [38] - Quote blank
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 297	Posted - 2013.07.13 22:57:00 - [39] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I would recommend three tiers of the skill back booster. Tier 1 3-day long booster 150,000 SP returned Cost: 2,500 AUR Tier 2 7-day long booster 300,000 SP returned 7,000 aurum Tier 3 30-day long booster 1,000,000 returned 40,000 aurum Passive and active boosters disabled when in use. Limit one per year. It's not perfect, but can be fine tuned. Reminder: regular passive gain will also be disabled. 30 days to return 1 mill sp that cost 40,000 aurum rofl no.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 297	Posted - 2013.07.13 22:58:00 - [40] - Quote CCP completely altered the skill tree meaning it was harder to understand, they also turned skill paths in to huge unnecessary skill sinks that ate millions of sp for simple skills, also many skills were nerfed and entire play styles ruined making people put their points else where, some skills also weren't shown correctly while other were ninja nerfed and not placed in patch notes leaving people scratching their heads on why a skill or weapon they had skilled for had randomly changed. There were also constant glitches in play styles for example the equipment wheel and nanite injector were broken making logis complete crap. Another example was the extreme tank nerf -20% turret damage, -20% pg nerf, turret prices doubled, turrets hit detection not working at all for some time, removal of Marauders for the worse Enforcer, removal of chasis modules for no reason. So with all that in mind tell me this why should anyone not be granted a respec with only 25% of the content out, huge unfair sp sinks for just about every play style, game breakingly bad balance and cost for things that don't work effectively on the battlefield, constantly ninja nerfs to our play style that make skilling in to something almost pointless. And lets get this straight Dust 514 is not New Eden it is not this harsh brutal game it is just a *** to play because CCP is always *** us in the ass EVE online is a game where someone ganked my 2.1 billion Tengu in high security space (safe space) just to get the modules from my ship. These are two different game Dust 514 isn't hardcore where 1000 of players are fighting at once it's a little demo game designed to ** people off it is not hardcore at all. Plus the link provided is horrible it means you'd never get a full respec you would just be spending huge amounts of Aurum to respec one skill which is no help at all have fun spending 1,000 real life dollars to get a full respec that took 100 days.

Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 327	Posted - 2013.07.13 23:00:00 - [41] - Quote I keep posting on the wrong f'ing thread I give up lol
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:48:00 - [42] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: 30 days to return 1 mill sp that cost 40,000 aurum rofl no. Yes, it needs to be cheap yet slow - perhaps UVT-level cheap.
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 52	Posted - 2013.07.18 04:01:00 - [43] - Quote If it is not 2 or 3 times faster than passive + booster then there is no point to get it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3400	Posted - 2013.07.18 04:03:00 - [44] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I would recommend three tiers of the skill back booster. Tier 1 3-day long booster 150,000 SP returned Cost: 2,500 AUR Tier 2 7-day long booster 300,000 SP returned 7,000 aurum Tier 3 30-day long booster 1,000,000 returned 40,000 aurum Passive and active boosters disabled when in use. Limit one per year. It's not perfect, but can be fine tuned. Reminder: regular passive gain will also be disabled. 30 days to return 1 mill sp that cost 40,000 aurum rofl no. Please read the second-to-last line. I said it's not perfect and can be fine tuned. What numbers would you recommend?
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 75	Posted - 2013.07.19 17:27:00 - [45] - Quote Cool idea man, just popping in to give you that well deserved +1 :)
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 57	Posted - 2013.07.20 17:52:00 - [46] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Cool idea man, just popping in to give you that well deserved +1 :) Thanks
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 330	Posted - 2013.07.20 17:54:00 - [47] - Quote ive heard this idea before.... and its a great one.... I also thought CCP was looking into it already?
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 721	Posted - 2013.08.26 02:52:00 - [48] - Quote I like it. Makes CCP money, makes respecs not instant, and will make the whines of respecs be silenced.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 721	Posted - 2013.08.26 02:53:00 - [49] - Quote Oh, yeah. BAMP!


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