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BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
406
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. No i wouldn't. And many people won't either making PC boring cause corps will leave cause of members leaving the corp for other games tht are not subscription based and corps would shrink and not play it. No amount of money will get this game better any sooner. it's about time and patience. there r plenty of F2P games thts r good. WoTs especially and so on. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
222
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Posted - 2013.06.09 00:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Delta 749 wrote:No, as it stands now this game is nowhere near good enough to warrant a subscription fee I agree but I think it's a circular argument. A f2p game will never offer enough quality to warrant subscription quality. But if CCP did make the effort / make investment to make subscription-worthy content, would you pay a fee to play it? Still no I dont mind microtransactions or one time fees and pay those if I think what they offer is worth it but something needs to stand head and shoulders above its competition or offer a massive amount of content for me to consider paying a subscription fee Yeah, thats exactly what I am saying: WoW type of content. CCP could make it happen because they have the universe already and a following to launch an MMO game with massive content. I don't really see a middle ground: their mictrotransaction micro-MMO is failing. I for one will not play this game much longer as it's just not fun to play - free or not. Well something else to consider is the amount of negative press shutting down the current version and relaunching with a subscription based model would generate What marketing they have done is heavily pimping this as free to play and a shift over would alienate those that are still kicking around only because its free to play and I imagine they would be left with a few hundred EVE players as the only ones remaining lowering potential profits especially if they manage to pay for their subscriptions purchasing time from other players in game, I know some people already do that EVE side
This is truly a marketing problem for them. But I think they can overcome it. They had a lot of bad press and they this one bit is not more likely to sink their boat compared to everythign else that has been going on. I think f2p should stay in the game with access to all the current features.
Now I don't claim to have a recipe for how to make this transition. But I do think it would be possible if ccp put their game to it. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
222
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. No i wouldn't. And many people won't either making PC boring cause corps will leave cause of members leaving the corp for other games tht are not subscription based and corps would shrink and not play it. No amount of money will get this game better any sooner. it's about time and patience. there r plenty of F2P games thts r good. WoTs especially and so on.
WoT would never have survied on consoles. Plus if you think about WoT it's browser quality. Is it fun to play? Sure because it's kinda unique and historically acurate. But it's not a console FPS that has to compete with other quality console FPS. It's a unique game with it's unique corner of the game market - that's what has gotten it as far as it has. |
BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
406
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. No i wouldn't. And many people won't either making PC boring cause corps will leave cause of members leaving the corp for other games tht are not subscription based and corps would shrink and not play it. No amount of money will get this game better any sooner. it's about time and patience. there r plenty of F2P games thts r good. WoTs especially and so on. WoT would never have survied on consoles. Plus if you think about WoT it's browser quality. Is it fun to play? Sure because it's kinda unique and historically acurate. But it's not a console FPS that has to compete with other quality console FPS. It's a unique game with it's unique corner of the game market - that's what has gotten it as far as it has. i think it would have survived on consoles. it's a great game. just cause it isn't ur cup of tea doesn't mean people don't love it. Plus what makes it browser quality. Graphics? thts about it. the gameplay is absolutely Amazing. Unlike dust. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
I like f2p games better than subscription games. I enjoy knowing that if I get tired or see a new shiny game to play that it is okay for me to put down what ever f2p game I was playing and come back to it later because I'm not paying a subscription for it. I can also play the f2p game when I'm dead broke and can't afford a subscription eating away at my monthly budget.
However, in essence, dust already has a subscription based method. The boosters make me feel like I'm paying for a subscription because I can't just leave the game without feeling like I'm not getting my money's worth. It is the exact same feeling I get when I pay a subscription for something. I'm okay with this brand of subscription as long as I can still play the game without having to use boosters and I can eventually get to exactly the same place as a booster person.
The type of f2p models that mixes subscriptions that I don't like are those that say you can never get to the same place as a subscriber. I think dust's model is doing well and I hope that it is a complete success because I want other f2p games to copy what dust is doing. |
calvin b
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
0
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Posted - 2013.06.09 00:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Want to raise money for the game , its simple. Have a AUR store were you can by mods for your weapons and suits. That way we can support the game we like and at the same time look good killin your A** on the battlefield. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
222
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I would stop playing Dust for sure, I would pay a 1 time $60 payment, but there is NO WAY I would ever pay subscription.
Why? Also, $5/month is $60 per year. The only difference is that the developer has an incentive to keep adding content if a subscription is chosen.
Side note: I am surprised by your stance. I saw your recent posts you seem to be very disenchanged with how the game has turned out in its current state. I think it has a lot to do with f2p system that encourages scewed balance and poor effort on the part of the developer. |
BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
406
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I would stop playing Dust for sure, I would pay a 1 time $60 payment, but there is NO WAY I would ever pay subscription. Why? Also, $5/month is $60 per year. The only difference is that the developer has an incentive to keep adding content if a subscription is chosen. Side note: I am surprised by your stance. I saw your recent posts you seem to be very disenchanged with how the game has turned out in its current state. I think it has a lot to do with f2p system that encourages scewed balance and poor effort on the part of the developer. there incentive now is if they bring nothing we stop buying arurm and the other stuff they release for it. and wat balance problems r there tht would be fixed by subscription based system. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
223
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. No i wouldn't. And many people won't either making PC boring cause corps will leave cause of members leaving the corp for other games tht are not subscription based and corps would shrink and not play it. No amount of money will get this game better any sooner. it's about time and patience. there r plenty of F2P games thts r good. WoTs especially and so on. WoT would never have survied on consoles. Plus if you think about WoT it's browser quality. Is it fun to play? Sure because it's kinda unique and historically acurate. But it's not a console FPS that has to compete with other quality console FPS. It's a unique game with it's unique corner of the game market - that's what has gotten it as far as it has. i think it would have survived on consoles. it's a great game. just cause it isn't ur cup of tea doesn't mean people don't love it. Plus what makes it browser quality. Graphics? thts about it. the gameplay is absolutely Amazing. Unlike dust.
Yes graphics. (Edit: I did not mean to make this reply sound like i believe that graphics is an important factor in games, but graphics is an indicator of how much money or effort went into the game). The game is amazing on its own - it does not have to compete with anything else. The WOT developers made a relatively cheap game in its own novel genre. They get to dictate rules in their corner of the market. Unfortunately the same does nto apply to DUST, it's a late arrival in the world of console FPS. The MECHANICS of an FPS game have a pretty high bench mark that I think DUST wont reach without an extra development push. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
223
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. I would argue against that, there are many games out there across several genres that are entirely free to play and extremely high quality and feature complete
Which ones would you offer as an example? |
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:I like f2p games better than subscription games. I enjoy knowing that if I get tired or see a new shiny game to play that it is okay for me to put down what ever f2p game I was playing and come back to it later because I'm not paying a subscription for it. I can also play the f2p game when I'm dead broke and can't afford a subscription eating away at my monthly budget.
However, in essence, dust already has a subscription based method. The boosters make me feel like I'm paying for a subscription because I can't just leave the game without feeling like I'm not getting my money's worth. It is the exact same feeling I get when I pay a subscription for something. I'm okay with this brand of subscription as long as I can still play the game without having to use boosters and I can eventually get to exactly the same place as a booster person.
The type of f2p models that mixes subscriptions that I don't like are those that say you can never get to the same place as a subscriber. I think dust's model is doing well and I hope that it is a complete success because I want other f2p games to copy what dust is doing.
What I would suggest is that if you leave Dust for a time the subscription model would lock you out of the prime features without pushing you outright from the game as a whole. This way no one would lose. |
BobThe843CakeMan
BurgezzE.T.F
406
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Quote:Yes graphics. The game is amazing on its own - it does not have to compete with anything else. The WOT developers made a relatively cheap game in its own novel genre. They get to dictate rules in their corner of the market. Unfortunately the same does nto apply to DUST, it's a late arrival in the world of console FPS. The MECHANICS of an FPS game have a pretty high bench mark that I think DUST wont reach without an extra development push. They need to get their mechanics right first. and plus WoT is better than most games. They don't even have all the things in the game yet such as tanks, dropsuits, guns ect. No one would pay a subscription for this game in this state. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I would stop playing Dust for sure, I would pay a 1 time $60 payment, but there is NO WAY I would ever pay subscription. Why? Also, $5/month is $60 per year. The only difference is that the developer has an incentive to keep adding content if a subscription is chosen. Side note: I am surprised by your stance. I saw your recent posts you seem to be very disenchanged with how the game has turned out in its current state. I think it has a lot to do with f2p system that encourages scewed balance and poor effort on the part of the developer. there incentive now is if they bring nothing we stop buying arurm and the other stuff they release for it. and wat balance problems r there tht would be fixed by subscription based system.
The way it stands right now is we pay a little, they do a little, and everyone has a little game as a result - that's how all f2p games are. The balance problems are as follows. There is a huge incentive for developers to tip the game balance in favor of paying for equipment that wins games. Like I said before: few ppl can affort to run proto suits w/o paying AUR. As a result you have proto pub stomps that are not fun for anyone. This is a direct consequence of a game that's engineered to generate a profit from f2p model. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 00:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ok I will stop posting here for a while to see if more ppl find this discussion interesting. Also, it would be nice to see what some ppl think the issues in the game as is are and if it's at all related to how we pay for the game or not. |
WyrmHero1945
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
388
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dust isn't a MMO still, so I wouldn't pay for a subscription. However I would pay $40 for the game in its current stage. I already did with 2 merc packs and I feel I don't need any more boosters, nor the game has enough quality to spend more $$$$. Maybe I would buy another pack with the next release, like buying their DLC. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
274
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. I would argue against that, there are many games out there across several genres that are entirely free to play and extremely high quality and feature complete Which ones would you offer as an example?
Street Fighter X Mega Man Bunny Must Die Katawa Shoujo Spelunky Mechwarrior Online Cave Story Net Hack Dwarf Fortress Slender I Wanna Be The Guy
I could go on, the freeware market is full of excellent games |
Salt2131
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
Explain to me one more time how giving CCP more of our money fixes the game?
so to answer your ?
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-NO |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:i would quit if they made it a subscription based game. it is not good enough and many others would leave making the money they get off dust even less. But would you still quit it if they made it 'good enough'? That's exactly the core of my qustion. In order for this game to be good enough, it can not be f2p. f2p is just not a viable model for games that aim at being great. Hell, even at being good. I would argue against that, there are many games out there across several genres that are entirely free to play and extremely high quality and feature complete Which ones would you offer as an example? Street Fighter X Mega Man Bunny Must Die Katawa Shoujo Spelunky Mechwarrior Online Cave Story Net Hack Dwarf Fortress Slender I Wanna Be The Guy I could go on, the freeware market is full of excellent games
Right. But none of these are massive games with extensive content. Angry birds is an excellent free game. But you cant compare what ccp positions DUST to be to Angry Birds. Whereas it was totally fine for angry birds to be a small f2p game that ended up raking a pile of money, the same could never be applied to a game like DUST. |
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed.
111
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
Another one of these threads...
Subscription based online play is why most people chose the PS3 over the Xbox, smart guy.
Aurum OR Subscription. Until the game is fixed, good luck convincing people to purchase either. |
VLIGHT5
The Judas Coalition
243
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
I would only pay if we had MTAC's, Jets, all weapon variants, and received a hefty amount of content every month. |
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Another one of these threads...
Subscription based online play is why most people chose the PS3 over the Xbox, smart guy.
Aurum OR Subscription. Until the game is fixed, good luck convincing people to purchase either.
Dunno about you, smart guy. I chose PS3 because I am used to PS platform for better or worse. Now your second point: this game wont be fixed unless there was more incentive for the devs. I would be willing to pay 5$ for prime content. And if CCP failed even after that - it woul be only 5$ extra that I would have wated after dumping 40$ in merc packs following their hollow promises. I just think that if there is a chance for Dust to be rescued it would be to take it out of the f2p hole. Right now I am sure no one buys AUR anymore. And if there is no cash flow CCP wont be working on the game. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
224
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
VLIGHT5 wrote:I would only pay if we had MTAC's, Jets, all weapon variants, and received a hefty amount of content every month.
Yeah, that's what I am talking about. All of that: a complete game with all the promised content and fixed mechanics. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Most of these games are moving to free to play so why would OP even entertain going to a sub model.
CCP decided this model was right for them so whats with all the pity????
Also, even if the sub was $5 per month do you think that in a year this game will be worth that of other top flight games, worse two or three years???
And what about other similar titles that will soon be on newer consoles? |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
274
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
I always screw up altering the quotes so Ill just snip them
Bunny Must Die, Metroidvania with multiple characters with differing routes and playstyles Spelunky, roguelike platformer and every game has a different layout Cave Story, metroidvania with multiple endings Mechwarrior Online, just go look it up Net Hack, roguelike and I cant begin to tell you how massive and extensive it is Dwarf Fortress, seriously go look it up and the crazy things you can do in this game
The others on the list are VNs, fairly short platformers, and fairly short horror games
Seriously man look into the freeware market, so many polished games made by teams that consist of one or a handful of people working on no budget with development times that match Dusts |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
2625
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Throwing more money doesn't create quality games. Creative developers create quality games. |
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed.
111
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Another one of these threads...
Subscription based online play is why most people chose the PS3 over the Xbox, smart guy.
Aurum OR Subscription. Until the game is fixed, good luck convincing people to purchase either. Dunno about you, smart guy. I chose PS3 because I am used to PS platform for better or worse. Now your second point: this game wont be fixed unless there was more incentive for the devs. I would be willing to pay 5$ for prime content. And if CCP failed even after that - it woul be only 5$ extra that I would have wated after dumping 40$ in merc packs following their hollow promises. I just think that if there is a chance for Dust to be rescued it would be to take it out of the f2p hole. Right now I am sure no one buys AUR anymore. And if there is no cash flow CCP wont be working on the game.
$5.00? SOE has paid well for an inferior product. And you think $5.00 is going to be some major contribution? That's cute, kiddo. Now take your little piggy bank back home and save for college.
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Richy De
DUST University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
If a game is pay to play i simply don't play it. Pay once for my game, and if it needs an update, that should be free.
Extra content, yes I will pay for if it is a reasonable priced.
What a lot of people seem to have missed is that Dust514 brings together two games from different platforms.
Eve online and Dust514
If Dust514 only serves to introduce people to the Eve universe and then it's doing a damn good job.
Some of those people will be interested in Eve online, will try the free trial and a few like it enough to want to subscribe and keep playing.
Most console gamers only play for a few hours a day. PC gamers on the other hand have games in some cases running 24/7
If Dust514 is to grow and evolve, it needs to be free to play with non pay to win extras, ie skins, clothing options ect. If it became subscription based, the only people who would really want to play it enough to pay, in my opinion would be Eve online players seeking to influence the outcome of battles in Eve, with a few non Eve players who simply liked the game, which I might add is slightly reminisce of Battlefield 2142 just not as well made yet.
As Dust514 improves more people will be interested in buying some of the extra content. |
Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
408
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Thanks for the hearty laugh OP. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
597
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
I didn't like EVE, and this game wouldn't hold it worth right now if it had a sub like EVE, so yea I think it would fall apart if it did because I just don't see the needed content to stay coming out within 3months of a forced sub and by then all the players would be dust in the wind. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
No, it would make people feel more entitled then they already do about this game.
CCP has its annual money maker, Dust 514 is the experimental awesome beta CCP decided to let us enjoy until PS4 comes out and they can develop the complete Dust 514 experience using the engine the game was originally coded to run on in the first place. |
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