IMO, if you are really far away from the battle and picking off random combatants, you are not helping the team defend an objective or go on an offensive. When I snipe, i am always nearby an objective so for 3 reasons:

1) If the enemy team is advancing, it is up the to sniper to injure/kill enemies rushing the team objective from afar and buy time for the frontline troops time to respawn/retaliate

2) If the enemy team is defending an objective, it is up to the sniper to injure/kill spawning soldiers so the team can capture it more easily

3) If the team has completely left an objective unguarded and an enemy spy infiltrates a team objective, it is up to the sniper to have a sidearm readily available to kill the hacker in order for the team to keep the objective.

In a sense, a sniper plays the same role as a heavy, but with different methods.

If a sniper is doing none of the above, if the sniper is picking off random enemy troops he/she is not a team player. Also, one cannot use the excuse that "a sniper is a team player if he gets kills to force the enemy to respawn" because the only the kills that really matter are the ones that will affect the team's overall intentions. IE) killing a random in an open field is not as effective as killing (or simply injuring) an enemy running with 3 others that are rushing an objective. Only the latter will give your team a fighting chance.

Your line of thinking is very valid and I've often engaged in conversations with others with a similar line of thinking. After all what's the point of objective based play if you are not part of the group aiding in the capture or defend of the the objective?

Where I am coming from in my line of thinking is the aspect of optional team play vs the path of least resistance. It would seem that the design and set up of the SR class and it's weapons promote the long range picking off folks rather than moving with the group.

The issue comes in when you look at time to fire and set up, visibility, and rewarding player experience. I simply contend that the game design for the class, good or bad based on your particular point of view, promotes snipers being some place with open views and killing who that can vs moving along at distance with a team. I've listed some of the reasons I think this in my OP.

While I think the issue is entirely relative to personal game play style and disposition I would venture to say most will find they are more effective at range in open spaces rather than constantly trying to move from spot to spot.

An example of the game play i'm talking about it is the idea that when a sniper sets up he/she communicates to the team enemy movements and what targets are open while also trying to defend at least one capture point or area of enemy traffic. Depending on the flow of the match there may be times when there isn't much action or when it becomes obvious that it would be better to pick a new vantage point. In addition I view the job as counter sniper, when the team calls out they are being pinned down or taking fire from another sniper.

I would also contend that as a sniper your best advantage is the spot that is just beyond the range of the other long range weapons.

I don't mean to imply that it can not be done, I 'm simply saying that the current design and set up of the class favors long distance, high vantage points, and less frequent re-positioning.

The facts on if that's good or bad is really down to personal preference. That's why if the dev team would perhaps shed light on how they envisioned the role operating , it would be helpful in providing feedback in relation to how the role is currently functioning.

CCP has done a good job making it so the snipers far and away from the battlefield don't have the ability to contribute as much to the fight as a sniper who is closer.

That said, I've found the role to be most helpful in these ways:

1) Intel. Nobody but a dropship can gather intelligence on enemy movement like a sniper. But the sniper is at least safer, and the sniper can also gather the intel faster.
2) Squad Support. In this game, being sniper isn't about getting a high kill/death ratio and only taking really opportune shots. You're not helping your squad that way. When your squad engages the enemy, you need to be taking shots on the targets, whether they're lined up headshots or not. That extra damage that the enemy can't prepare for or block can EASILY tip the scales in favor of your squadmates.
3) Tactical denial. There are usually several safe positions that give a sniper an eagle eye on at least one objective terminal. If the team knows that the Sniper has eyes on this target and can snipe off any enemy trying to hack it, they can save their remote explosives and manpower at guarding other locations. This is a huge factor while defending, as the single sniper becomes a tremendous force multiplier. Remember he can still support his squad from afar after defending the objective.
4) Anti-Sniper. Nobody can kill a sniper quite like, well, another sniper. Most snipers are used to being able to sit in one area and camp away. But if you can drive them off and keep mobile, you'll save your squadmates a lot of headache when they try to cross from objective to objective.

That aside, I feel there is no issue with red line sniping or MCC sniping. These types typically stay in the same place, and return to the same place, making them easy kills for anyone with a sniper rifle and 10 seconds to spare.

Could not have said this better myself. (i really couldnt. all your points are top notch). Also, the above makes me feel like i am useful lol

Snipers Role:
The snipers role seems to have been the topic of some debate as of late. Some argue that snipers should be much closer to the action and in the mix while others stand firm that snipers will always be at long distance camped out in picking off the occasional combatant. It would be interesting to hear what the Devs think of the sniper role and state of game play.

CCP has done a good job making it so the snipers far and away from the battlefield don't have the ability to contribute as much to the fight as a sniper who is closer.

That said, I've found the role to be most helpful in these ways:

1) Intel. Nobody but a dropship can gather intelligence on enemy movement like a sniper. But the sniper is at least safer, and the sniper can also gather the intel faster.
2) Squad Support. In this game, being sniper isn't about getting a high kill/death ratio and only taking really opportune shots. You're not helping your squad that way. When your squad engages the enemy, you need to be taking shots on the targets, whether they're lined up headshots or not. That extra damage that the enemy can't prepare for or block can EASILY tip the scales in favor of your squadmates.
3) Tactical denial. There are usually several safe positions that give a sniper an eagle eye on at least one objective terminal. If the team knows that the Sniper has eyes on this target and can snipe off any enemy trying to hack it, they can save their remote explosives and manpower at guarding other locations. This is a huge factor while defending, as the single sniper becomes a tremendous force multiplier. Remember he can still support his squad from afar after defending the objective.
4) Anti-Sniper. Nobody can kill a sniper quite like, well, another sniper. Most snipers are used to being able to sit in one area and camp away. But if you can drive them off and keep mobile, you'll save your squadmates a lot of headache when they try to cross from objective to objective.

That aside, I feel there is no issue with red line sniping or MCC sniping. These types typically stay in the same place, and return to the same place, making them easy kills for anyone with a sniper rifle and 10 seconds to spare.

I am definitely of the opinion snipers should be taking a perch somewhere with a good view of the battle, but where they hopefully won't attract much notice.

Duking it out at a range is the role of assault rifles/scramblers/laser rifles. The sniper rifle is about hitting the enemy VERY hard from an unexpected angle, and used properly it can win battles for your allies.

The fact that many snipers focus too much on the not attracting notice part, and too little on helping their team part, is just a product of this game placing too much emphasis on K/D. Personally I think they should up the victory points for taking objectives, give bonus victory points based on the AMOUNT of the gap between your kills and deaths (So that someone who got 15/5 would get a much better reward than 5/0) and just up the ISK/SP rewards for helping your team win in general.

In addition to your fine points, I think additional rewards being granted for assistance kills would help the sniper class a great deal since in reality many times the sniper supports a team by delivering an Alpha strike that makes the close range team have an easy target as others have pointed out.

I personally don't worry about KD as much as I worry about effective contribution to the team game play. As a sniper I know that it's not optimal for me to really be running up on points to capture or mixing it up with a scrambler rifle. I feel I'm far more effective in the combat over watch role, the anti sniper, or area of access guardian role.

I would still contend however there is a place for some sort of covert, stealth or cloak mechanic that would change the style of sniper play. In addition I find it somewhat frustrating that there isn't an effective target call out system, or target painting mechanic. Being able to only mark one target at a time seem a little limiting.

Once a team member spots a sniper or a group of combatants that he/she would like the sniper to help with, they have no real recourse to mark a target or area unless they are squad lead

I am in alignment with your thoughts here outside of red line and MCC. MCC I feel like is somewhat of an exploit as in unintended game play mechanic.

My issue with red line play across the board is that at some point the game should promote players into coming onto the playable combat zone. This is really more of an issue when you see that half way though a match the randoms have taken up positions in the red zone. The idea being that if forced to leave at some point they might engage in meaningful combat on some level. I would be in favor of the red line timer being tied to the number of objectives you have captured, the more objectives you own the less time you can spend in the red zone or something to that effect.

...many snipers focus too much on the not attracting notice part...

IMO, there only two kinds of GOOD, PRODUCTIVE snipers: tactical and overwatch.

In skirmish especially, a good overwatch sniper takes a dropship up to a high point with the best view available. And a mic is necessary for this. I played with this guy in my squad who would constantly be telling all of us stuff like, "3 guys coming from the north towards A" "2 camping out at B" etc. etc.

The next type is the tactical sniper. This kind moves with the squad, scouting out the area ahead while also aiding in firefights. With the massive sway, this is difficult. The fact that snipers have a very difficult time hitting anything closer than a few meters, they are effectively farsighted and can not fight in the thick of it. I suspect that when cloaking arrives, snipers (and really all speedy, sneaky scout suits) will be much more effective in combat considering a scout suit is so squishy.

I'll give you some feedback.
I played sniper role from the Mordu's Private Trials build all the way to the very end of the Chromosome build.
I went Tactical Assault in Uprising.

There's a misconception that a sniper HAS to run with his squad, and engage in mid-range combat. This is due to the hatred that snipers receive when they operate at ultra long-range, or at some position inaccessible to the enemy (like behind the red line, or up on a tower). People get frustrated, and start trying to insult the sniper.
Snipers are not viewed as "honorable", because a sniper doesn't allow his opponent an "equal opportunity exchange of fire". So if he is a proficient sniper, and actually starts killing a lot of people, and those people can't reach him; they cry, *****, moan, throw tantrums, throw insults, and come to the forums to complain about how a sniper killed them... It's "the redzone", it's the damage, it's ALWAYS absolutely fkin EVERYTHING else except their OWN failure.

To make people feel better (or because they fall for insults on their tenacity as players), some snipers take it upon themselves to fight at mid-range, like their non-sniper rivals want them to. Before Uprising, this simply caused snipers to get chewed up by Assault Rifles and Laser Rifles. Today, snipers that do the "honorable" thing, simply get chewed up by Scrambler Rifles and Tactical Assault Rifles.
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I cant tell you feel very passionately about the subject which I find to be a good trait!

You definitely reinforced much of the general thought process from snipers. Thank you for bringing up the render distance thing, I totally forget to add that in.

I'd like to see more ladders, allowing access to more sniping positions. And less of those stupid, head-level barricades around rooftops.

[quote=TheEnd762]Short of that we would be looking at ascension cables or something of that nature.