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[Suggestion] Plasma Mortar

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Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 28	Posted - 2013.06.06 12:12:00 - [1] - Quote Hello again, I have an idea which may bring a uniqueness to the battlefield and can be either an addition to an existing weapon, or a stand alone weapon. (Which ever occurs is due to feedback and CCP's own judgement I guess) This suggestion is for the Plasma Mortar, as a stand alone weapon it's fairly apparent at what it does, it is another light weapon which would allow all classes to use it. The addition idea I am talking about, is to make it a 'mode' on the Plasma Cannon, this would allow it to have it's own 'niche' when it comes to the battlefield of DUST. I think this idea fills in the gap made by the extremes when it comes to taking out a fortified position, normally the be all and end all is an orbital bombardment, either from the MCC or EvE, then of course you could have an air assault via dropships and then you could always bring in armor to punch your way through. The Plasma Mortar provides the little picking away at defenses should only 1 or 2 be used, but should a squad be put onto mortar duty, defenses could be quickly worn down. The mortar certainly wouldn't have the same devastating effects as an OB, but it's ability would be justified as a readily available weapon used by infantry. Now, lets talk specifications: The weapon and user would be stationary when this weapon is firing, this can be put down to lore such as "Due to the sheer recoil generated by firing a dense ball of plasma, the weapon has to be deployed onto the floor to dissapate the recoil appropiately, cases have been recorded that plasma mortar sized holes have been seen in soldiers that have bypassed this safety protocol" This means that while the effects will definately be felt by the defending position, you know that the mortar has to be protected as they themselves cannot move and are therefore vunerable to sniper teams and counter-mortaring. The splash range is up for discussion but a 3m radius should be adequate and proportionate to the size of the round. The direct hit damage should be catastrophic and would instantly kill a heavy and so that should be around 1500-2000 direct damage. Splash damage would be the same as a direct hit but follow an inverse square relationship, this means that damage is related to the distance from impact, squared. So taking the aboslute extremes, an enemy at the maximum radius from the blast of 3 meters would take (2000/(3^2)) = 222.2 damage. This wouldn't kill you at full HP, but certainly let you know what's going on. For magazine size, these can come in two variants, the regular mortars which have a magazine of 1, but the reload is generally quite quick (1-3 seconds) Burst mortars could be available, with a charge time of .5 seconds and a magazine of 2-4, but a reload of 5-8 seconds and so you can go for continous bombardment, or a quick burst of damage on an unsuspecting enemy.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 28	Posted - 2013.06.06 12:16:00 - [2] - Quote Ammo ammount should be about 2-4 magazines, I am siding with about 2. So in short: This weapon could be used to wear down defences when orbitals are not available, direct hits are devasting but damage is drasticly reduced the further away from the blast zone you are The the weapon being deployed I believe adds some balance to the weapon (hitting someone who cannot move from an area because he is defending it, while you can't move youself) Fricken mortars man! thoughts? Thanks for reading,
Mikey The Bandaid D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 8	Posted - 2013.06.06 12:27:00 - [3] - Quote Wow this is a really cool idea. I love the fact that it would have to be stationary. To me this would make a cool heavy weapon. They lack "heavy only" weapons and a mortar seems like it would be big and bulky. Maybe they could include different kinds of shells like shells that disable equipment or shells that would slow mercs down. All in all I love you idea! +1
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 30	Posted - 2013.06.06 12:31:00 - [4] - Quote Mikey The Bandaid wrote: Wow this is a really cool idea. I love the fact that it would have to be stationary. To me this would make a cool heavy weapon. They lack "heavy only" weapons and a mortar seems like it would be big and bulky. Maybe they could include different kinds of shells like shells that disable equipment or shells that would slow mercs down. All in all I love you idea! +1 Thank you! By having it as a light weapon, the heavy can use it, but can also open up interesting tactics like scout mortar teams, that quickly rush into position, start their bombardment with burst mortars, then GTFO. In all, I think having it as a light weapon would allow a larger range of tactical applications.
Spider' Jerusalem Expert Intervention Caldari State 22	Posted - 2013.06.06 14:01:00 - [5] - Quote .
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 339	Posted - 2013.06.06 14:10:00 - [6] - Quote Interesting concept but worried about there already being enough camping with snipers out on the field and these "mortar teams" being able to just wipe the floor with them before they can get into position and do whatever they're supposed to do... It might be an interesting vehicle turret though... Something like a small turret with explosive rounds similar to a mass driver.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 33	Posted - 2013.06.06 15:22:00 - [7] - Quote I suppose the user is revealed after a few shots, and also unlike a sniper, I think with the type of destruction it can create and it's purpose, people will start to look for them very quickly.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 33	Posted - 2013.06.06 18:54:00 - [8] - Quote bump
Kergg Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.06.06 19:07:00 - [9] - Quote Yeah, definitely a light weapon as opposed to heavy...I don't foresee many heavies using this since usually a mortar is far removed from the area they're targeting. Another problem I could see would be just thatGÇötargetingGÇöhow would that work? I'm thinking a reticule on the minimap or something, maybe...but it would be tough to, say, bombard an outpost from outside the wall with any accuracy if you had to look at the sky to lob, or if your aiming at the wall made the range automatically snap to the wall. Maybe something similar to the interface when you call down OMS, only zoomed in way more? That way whoever's mortaring would be fairly vulnerable to attacks but would be able to see scanner info and such when targeting?
Kergg Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.06.06 19:08:00 - [10] - Quote Kergg wrote: I don't foresee many heavies using this since usually a mortar is far removed from the area they're targeting. And to be more specific, I mean that if you're using a mortar, you usually don't need to be a bullet sponge. Typically you're going to want someone to cover you or you're going to be in a relatively unseen location, right?

Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 33	Posted - 2013.06.06 19:31:00 - [11] - Quote A fair point, targeting could be like that found in BF3, I found that to be highly intuitive and easy to use
Zat Earthshatter Ghosts Of Ourselves 311	Posted - 2013.06.06 20:30:00 - [12] - Quote Krasymptimo wrote: By having it as a light weapon, the heavy can use it, but can also open up interesting tactics like scout mortar teams, that quickly rush into position, start their bombardment with burst mortars, then GTFO.. I believe that's the purpose of the mortar anyway: a light artillery that can bombard a location and then leave before a counterattack can reach them. The only issue I see is lore-wise, being that a trait of the current Plasma Cannon is, as a volatile ball of plasma, it loses effectiveness outside of short-medium range (there aren't many long-range weapons in DUST for some reason) This can be resolved by having a Mortar mode firing the entire charge in the form that it's loaded in the breech. This usage also falls in-line with EVE hybrid ammo, as well as allowing the PC to function as it does now outside of Mortar functionality. As for switching into and out of the mode, the PC is short-range enough that ironsights aren't needed - use L1 to switch to Mortar mode.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 81	Posted - 2013.06.06 20:58:00 - [13] - Quote Targeting can be done in a similar method to Gears of War. That was actually really easy to use: Gears Mortar
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 33	Posted - 2013.06.06 22:15:00 - [14] - Quote Zat Earthshatter wrote: Krasymptimo wrote: By having it as a light weapon, the heavy can use it, but can also open up interesting tactics like scout mortar teams, that quickly rush into position, start their bombardment with burst mortars, then GTFO.. I believe that's the purpose of the mortar anyway: a light artillery that can bombard a location and then leave before a counterattack can reach them. The only issue I see is lore-wise, being that a trait of the current Plasma Cannon is, as a volatile ball of plasma, it loses effectiveness outside of short-medium range (there aren't many long-range weapons in DUST for some reason) This can be resolved by having a Mortar mode firing the entire charge in the form that it's loaded in the breech. This usage also falls in-line with EVE hybrid ammo, as well as allowing the PC to function as it does now outside of Mortar functionality. As for switching into and out of the mode, the PC is short-range enough that ironsights aren't needed - use L1 to switch to Mortar mode. Fair points made, and a great idea for using L1 to switch to Mortar mode Also, towards the gears of war method, I guess it will add in communication so team mates have to say whether he was short or too far
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 50	Posted - 2013.06.07 02:45:00 - [15] - Quote Personally i think this is what the plasma cannon should be since right now the few peaple who use it use it in this way sort of. All CCP could do is increase the splash to around 3 or 4m and change the reticle for the plasma cannon. But i do think that the direct damge shouldnt 1hit1kill everybody and the splash should be enough to kill someone in about 4 hits. That way it will be difficult to massacre the other team. I love this idea so much and i would burn what ever sp i have left to spec into this 'New Plasma Cannon'.
Zat Earthshatter Ghosts Of Ourselves 311	Posted - 2013.06.07 03:01:00 - [16] - Quote Krasymptimo wrote: Fair points made, and a great idea for using L1 to switch to Mortar mode Also, towards the gears of war method, I guess it will add in communication so team mates have to say whether he was short or too far Although L1 would switch to Mortar mode, it wouldn't necessarily use a physical sight - it could use a "map-scope" to highlight a target area to fire at, but you can be effective with either one. I do think, however, that the choice should be taken into balancing - the map-scope is far easier to aim, so it needs a drawback in comparison to a physical artillery ironsight. If both were used, I would make the ironsight version a single-shot-reload (as currently) that would deal very high damage to compensate for having to aim indirectly. The ironsight itself would be a leaf-sight, fitting into its Mortar designation. Useful for AV or highly-skilled users looking for challenging kills. Also, this would likely be a Breach version using DUST nomenclature. The version that uses a map-scope to aim would carry multiple charges in its firing chamber, and fire semi-automatically. Obviously, the individual charges would do less damage. The end result of this version is a tight scattering of charges that would suppress enemies. I would assume this to be the Standard should these ideas be implemented. Final notes: the design of a Leaf mortar sight is a vertical sight with notches representing distance, and a slider that moves as the weapon is tilted. You go to the notch that matches distance-to-target, then fire. Those who played Far Cry 2 would know that such a sight can be very accurate when the user is skilled - and equipped with a map or other method of identifying target range.
Ditat Deus GodsWolves 0	Posted - 2013.06.07 04:06:00 - [17] - Quote super yes. I think it should be like Farcry 2 with the aiming, or you can map it like battle field
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 82	Posted - 2013.06.07 04:10:00 - [18] - Quote Krasymptimo wrote: Fair points made, and a great idea for using L1 to switch to Mortar mode Also, towards the gears of war method, I guess it will add in communication so team mates have to say whether he was short or too far I've actually never needed anyone to tell me how to aim it, once you get used to it it's incredibly easy to judge the distances and how angled you need to make the shot (holding the fire button extends mortar distance, releasing launches the strike). It also tells you how many meters the shot will travel, so if you can judge your approximate distance you ought to be okay. That aside, friendly intel is never a bad thing! I would push for the GoW style aiming over the map because having the game load up the map takes precious time away from you while firing, and it's kind of an "easy mode" mortar. Being skilled with the mortar is something you oughta be able to be proud of (and if you've never played GoW, trust me, the Mortar isn't that hard to shoot reliably)
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.06.07 07:02:00 - [19] - Quote With the points that have been made, I'll change the OP later to reflect how the weapon is aimed, also to prevent the much higher damage Mortar being used as a direct fire weapon, angle of attack is limited to about 35-40 degrees to the floor. For one hit killing anything, bearing in mind this is a DIRECT hit, I suppose that only the most armoured of heavies would survive such a devastating blow, but only just.
Ti Joad Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2013.06.07 07:51:00 - [20] - Quote I love this idea! The only issue is this: Krasymptimo wrote: The splash range is up for discussion but a 3m radius should be adequate and proportionate to the size of the round. Mac Dac wrote: All CCP could do is increase the splash to around 3 or 4m and change the reticle for the plasma cannon. But i do think that the direct damge shouldnt 1hit1kill everybody and the splash should be enough to kill someone in about 4 hits. That way it will be difficult to massacre the other team. This is slightly larger than a Small Missle Turret and the same blast radius as a Breach Mass Driver and grenades, and let me tell you, this would hardly amount to anything. I know network latency, hit detection, and projectile trajectory and flight time all contribute to the poor quality of damage registration, but if this "Plasma Motor" should be implemented, then the radius needs to be MUCH larger. 9m at least

Ryuichi Kakihara Rautaleijona 2	Posted - 2013.06.07 08:14:00 - [21] - Quote how about making this a scout lav weapon and couple it with a "siege" module, so if a scout lav wants to start bombarding, it'll have to engage in siege mode for a bit. This way it's harder to hide your mortars, and dropships get more work.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.06.07 14:02:00 - [22] - Quote Quote: This is slightly larger than a Small Missle Turret and the same blast radius as a Breach Mass Driver and grenades, and let me tell you, this would hardly amount to anything. I know network latency, hit detection, and projectile trajectory and flight time all contribute to the poor quality of damage registration, but if this "Plasma Motor" should be implemented, then the radius needs to be MUCH larger. 9m at least a 9m radius is an 18m diameter blast, that results in an 254 m^2 blast area, I think that's too huge
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2013.06.07 14:40:00 - [23] - Quote Krasymptimo wrote: Quote: This is slightly larger than a Small Missle Turret and the same blast radius as a Breach Mass Driver and grenades, and let me tell you, this would hardly amount to anything. I know network latency, hit detection, and projectile trajectory and flight time all contribute to the poor quality of damage registration, but if this "Plasma Motor" should be implemented, then the radius needs to be MUCH larger. 9m at least a 9m radius is an 18m diameter blast, that results in an 254 m^2 blast area, I think that's too huge An alternative idea would be to have the Plasma Mortar fire several rounds that deviate slightly from what you'd expect the target destination to be. Lower damage per projectile in accordance with the amount of projectiles fired (ie. 4 projectiles launched, damage per projectile = 1/4 total) and the weapon becomes more "supportive" rather than a WP Printing machine. It will cover a somewhat wider area with the same total applicable damage, but with less strength vs. a single dropsuit (power vs vehicles remains the same due to vehicle size) One major reason to consider this is it puts the Mortar in a tactically advantageous spot. You may not be making a lot of kills with direct strikes (assuming you can get/are getting them) but you now have a slightly higher chance of at least hitting one target. And hitting one target out of a squad makes the fight easier for your squadmates currently engaged in combat. So if you can support them by knocking out the shields of 3 or 4 enemies, your squad's chances of winning the engagement increase by a large portion. You "soften" the opposition rather than completely eliminate it. This makes the mortar a support weapon that will be highly desired when a squad needs to hit a highly defended area. For example, in Domination mode with the objective under enemy hands. Having one guy stay back raining mortars on the enemy location to weaken them is a FAR more useful asset than a guy who's mortar isn't hitting the enemy, or just another guy with an AR playing spray and pray.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.06.07 15:30:00 - [24] - Quote ^ - What if this mode of fire is how a default mortar operates, and the Breach is a single shot round of pure devastation?
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.06.07 20:49:00 - [25] - Quote updated the OP
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2013.06.07 21:21:00 - [26] - Quote Krasymptimo wrote: ^ - What if this mode of fire is how a default mortar operates, and the Breach is a single shot round of pure devastation? Breach is Caldari, right? I think we'll have to flesh out what we would expect from the different variants first. Obviously since it would be Gallente tech, it is already in "Assault" configuration and doesn't need to be thought up. So if we assume Standard (Assault) to fire 4 projectiles in rapid succession into a target area with limited spread, let's see (For number's sake we will assume total damage of the Assault variant to be 1,000 at 250 per round, only because it's a nice number, not suggesting it should be like this): Burst (Minmatar): Burst variants typically fire in a "semi-auto" fashion as opposed to fully automatic. A 'Burst' Mortar could launch 6 rounds instead of 4, but in two bursts. So 2 sets of 3 mortar rounds launched, with each round doing 180 damage (1080 total). The rounds would keep the same spread as the Assault version, though due a lower projectile count the amount of area covered under fire is lower (per volley). Effective area of the weapon will be higher due to it firing two volleys per charge. Tactical (Amarr): Tactical variants offer better zoom capabilities with high rates of fire for good medium-long range capabilities, but lose damage output as a result. For tactical superiority, the Tactical Mortar should offer increased range (capable of lower firing angles) by about 65-75m but decreased overall damage. 4 shots with 200 damage per round for 800 total applicable damage. Not as much shock and awe but requires less movement to get situated by the operator. Breach (Caldari): Breach variants fire very slowly with high damage rounds, and usually offer tighter coverage. Increased charge time would apply to the Breach variant, but it could fire a single mortar round capable of 1,200 damage on a direct hit with an "okay" splash radius. This makes it the most effective variant against vehicles but leaves you the most vulnerable. Feel free to share if you can come up with better ideas. These are in no way well thought out, haha.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 590	Posted - 2013.06.07 21:30:00 - [27] - Quote I would be happy if it worked like the battlefield one but meh it is a battlefield equipment.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.06.07 21:59:00 - [28] - Quote I don't see any fault with what you've come up with for the different variations of the weapon Inviticas, however how should the weapon scale up to prototype? I think it would be best if radius stayed the same, and for a change, maybe only increase damage and maximum ammo storage, seen as clip size may alter the effect of balancing the weapons. I believe the Prototype mortar should take out all but the strongest of opponents, even more so with the breach variant. However, maybe it could also be possible to have specific attribute increases with the appropriate weapons? Breach could have a higher damage and maybe a smaller charge time or larger splash? Tactical could have an increased range and maybe an increased projectile speed? Burst I think would be best as a higher clip sized burst, and maybe a larger radius? I think these changes might further enforce their niche when it comes to the more specialized weapons.
Krasymptimo SyNergy Gaming EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:41:00 - [29] - Quote justice bump
Kaughst Pyramid Box Only The Famous 4	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:53:00 - [30] - Quote According to the Feedback page about a couple of months ago..... "[REQUEST] Mortar-like weapons Update: We have a design that will give the Mass Driver a secondary fire mode that is very similar to a mortar and other designs for "area of effect" weapons as well. For now we are focusing on imporving existing weapons first. " Frankly, I would like the Mass Driver to stay as the mortar weapon and leave the Plasma Cannon as the 'RPG' of Dust, maybe just make the plasma cannon's secondary as a longer charge and therefore a lengthier and faster shot.



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