I see no need for any AR to have over 70 base dps. Thats seem to be the problem to me, with skills it has beastly dps.

You mean 70 damage right?
Because 70 DPS won't get you anywhere lol

You are correct, I meant damage.

I really wonder why CCP thinks they need to reinvent every game mechanic they encounter. This isn't the first time that there's a semi-automatic rifle in a competitive multiplayer game. Just look at how other games did it and go from there. Fewer time spent on design, better result, more time to come up with unique ideas that don't suck.

It's not like it's all that complicated. Frankly CCP shouldn't drastically increase hip fire spread, the gun still needs to work in CQC. Spread increase and a smaller mag is likely to just break it. Which is seems to be SOP around here.

It's not that hard. Range and DPS should have an inverse relationship, as do Alpha and DPS.

High range and high alpha? Lower DPS
High range and higher DPS? Lower Alpha
Low range in general should have higher DPS than high range, regardless of alpha.
Shotguns have high alpha, AR and HMG have high dps, etc etc

TAR's should be able to shoot accurately at range and in CQC. It should pay for it's range with lower DPS. You won't balance it by trashing its CQC ability, you'll break it.

The easiest way to balance the TAR would be to give it stats closer to the breach scrambler pistol. Slow ROF, strong damage. Maybe not quite the damage of the breach, somewhere between the breach and current TAR but with the breach scrambler pistol ROF.

That would balance the gun pretty good. It would lower its DPS and force players to really be careful and skilled in CQ while allowing it to provide its intended role at range.

weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time.

I wasn't referring to you, Cat. I was talking to CCP when I said "you", and I was referring to this:



I'll bet 5 million ISK they break it.

The viziam out ranges the TAC, to me the range on the TAC should be pulled back some and the ROF dropped just a little. The TAC is OP in my eyes but only by a little bit. A rang buff on the entire LR line to make them reach about 10 meters more than the TAC at the standard level and a very small ROF drop in the TAC would probably be more fun than an AR range nerf.

If the stated fixes don't do what they intend, then before they start adjusting the damage I would recommend that they instead increase the zoom a tad in order to re-enforce its place as a mid-long range weapon making ADS in at close range as iffy as it would be with any 2.5 ACOG.

ADS'ing at close range is already a very bad idea, it lowers your move and strafe speed a lot. People who ADS at short range are easy targets. It's also easy for the opponent to strafe out of the scope since the turn speed is lowered as well.

Easier and better fix would be...

Decrease damage by 33%
Increase optimal 33%
Reduce falloff 66%

TAR balanced.

ADS'ing at close range is already a very bad idea, it lowers your move and strafe speed a lot. People who ADS at short range are easy targets. It's also easy for the opponent to strafe out of the scope since the turn speed is lowered as well.

Well, almost anything.
The only time I use hip fire with the TAC AR is super close engagements.
Anything else, and I use the scope.
And believe me, its closer than you think, 7 meters in fact.

From 10 meters all the way to its maximum range, it just outdoes everything.

The ONLY WAY to fix it without breaking it, is having a limit on the fire rate.
Take a note from Halo Reach and the DMR.

Its a high damage weapon, but it has a limited fire rate.
3-4 shots per second.
For comparison, the normal AR does 12.5 shots a second.
You could fire it faster, but the bloom kicks in and your weapon starts to be highly inaccurate. (Which doesn't happen in Dust, if you are aiming down sights your weapon will hit exactly where you aim)

So I suggest copying it.
3-4 shots a second keeps you accurate.
(This puts it at 312 DPS without any damage mods and skills. )
(For comparison, the normal AR does 420 DPS)
( think its fare considering the range you get, and the amount of spare ammo * damage per bullet you have.)
If you go faster, up to 5-6 shots a second, it will be extremely hard to control and unlikely to hit anything, but still doable at cloes range
(This puts it at 468, a bit above the auto AR.)

Anything more than that would be impossible to do thanks to a fire rate cap.
It will still be useable at close and close-medium range, but it won't be as effective as other weapons that are occupying this space.

If you're telling me that it breaks the weapon, let me ask you a question.
At what range is the TAC AR supposed to be used?
Another question.
Can anything else hit you at that range? (Except the sniper)
No?

Here is the thing.
I'm using the GLU constantly, I see no reason to use other AR's.
And I will still use it if the suggestion here is implemented.

Sounds like stupidest idea ever. No offence, dude. Any delay can be put between shots in the macro, you know that, right?

I've tested every single AR on the Market and to be honest here, I don't think TAR is actually the problem. Maps are.

TAR is overused not because of it's output, but because it's the only viable option for this kind of game design. DUST provides big open maps and to be effective, you actually NEED something that works in mid-range AND CQC. It's just plain stupid to bring any other weapon to the battlefield. I personally still be using TAR after the nerf, even with smaller clip, as I'm reloading after each burst anyway and using hipfire like 5% of kills.

And by the way, shooting moving pixels through ironsights is not how I imagine real life combat situation centuries from now. Check out modern military photos GÇö most of the weaponry is already equipped with scopes. It just makes sense. And by the way, there's no freeaking reason for the weapon with scope being less accurate hipfire, than the one without the scope, CCP. WTF is wrong with you?

I'm a shotgun person myself, I love to get in close range and BAM GÇö +1. But, man, this doesn't work in this game. There should be a point for a weapon to be used. Not because it's OP or have the most DPS, but because it suits certain conditions. Sniper rifle is the perfect example GÇö it works well on some maps, on others it doesn't.

So what I would like to see is more diverse combat options through better maps.
I'd love to use shotgun if it would be like really powerful at point blank, and not some kid's gun. I'd love to use AR if proper aiming sight was at place. Not some century old method.

The easiest way to balance the TAR would be to give it stats closer to the breach scrambler pistol. Slow ROF, strong damage. Maybe not quite the damage of the breach, somewhere between the breach and current TAR but with the breach scrambler pistol ROF.

That would balance the gun pretty good. It would lower its DPS and force players to really be careful and skilled in CQ while allowing it to provide its intended role at range.

no becuase it still doesn't fix turbo controllers which are the main problem with the gun. The TAC needs an over heat like the SR tho I would make it over heat to long jam not to burn.

Gameplay>reality 100% of the time.
No exceptions.
The fact that you said it's stupid to use any other gun is emblematic of the fact that they current stats on it are even more stupid. All the weapons in this game, and only one is considered worth using?

We're not looking for "realism". At most we're looking for verisimilitude, but even that is secondary to having a balanced weapon set that requires you to pick a weapon for a situation, NOT have one weapon that does all things and removes the need to use anything else and even punishes the people who do so.

At the end of the day, this is about fun, not realism. And getting **** on unless you use only one gun 100% of the time is just plain boring and moronic.

no becuase it still doesn't fix turbo controllers which are the main problem with the gun. The TAC needs an over heat like the SR tho I would make it over heat to long jam not to burn.

Nice OP.

But the tactical's functionality aiming down scope is exactly how it's meant to function.

A hip fire spread increase will make it significantly harder to use in CQC (which is the main issue).
A rate of fire decrease, that is too dramatic, will put it at a disadvantage vs. other ARs (Burst-Standard) at range.

If the general DPS is the problem. You can hit the damage, OR you can hit the RoF. if you do BOTH, you need to be very moderate.

When I'm assaulting at CQC with it, I hip fire.

If the range for the tac is reduced to be inline with the other ARs, then it should not suffer a hip fire penalty.

You have to think of a caveat for everything you decide to rebalance.

The tac doesn't need to get nerfed, it just needs to be tweaked to do it's role without negating the roles of others.

Cat Merc and everyone else plz check out this thread for further information on Rifles (straight from CCP Remnant)

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81243&p=2


Quote:

"
CCP Remnant - > Posted: 2013.05.28 02:48 |

We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:

Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range
Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range
Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range
Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range

Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons
A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time.

"

Well, almost anything.
The only time I use hip fire with the TAC AR is super close engagements.
Anything else, and I use the scope.
And believe me, its closer than you think, 7 meters in fact.

From 10 meters all the way to its maximum range, it just outdoes everything.

.
.
.

Sorry, it will fix everything.

The very tight hipfire really is the thing that makes autofire TAC AR such monster in CQC to short to mid ranges. And decent even in mid-long range as well.

You said yourself that you use scope in almost all sitations - sorry to say that you are using it 'wrong' or rather you are not maximising it.
Try the hipfire for ranges up to 50m. Feel the accuracy, fast movement, fast reactibility and unhindered view.

If you are giving that much of it's power away and playing handicapped, your experience may not be the best to base future balancing of weapons on.


That might've been a bit harsh thing to say but the reason is that I totally agree with you the scoped in view being good, and also good balance-wise. There is a cost in using autofire while scoped making it okay or at least requiring ton of player skill.

In hipfire there is currently no cost, expect medium sized clip which does run out but not soon enough not to murder heavies for example.