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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1121
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well, almost anything. The only time I use hip fire with the TAC AR is super close engagements. Anything else, and I use the scope. And believe me, its closer than you think, 7 meters in fact.
From 10 meters all the way to its maximum range, it just outdoes everything.
The ONLY WAY to fix it without breaking it, is having a limit on the fire rate. Take a note from Halo Reach and the DMR.
Its a high damage weapon, but it has a limited fire rate. 3-4 shots per second. For comparison, the normal AR does 12.5 shots a second. You could fire it faster, but the bloom kicks in and your weapon starts to be highly inaccurate. (Which doesn't happen in Dust, if you are aiming down sights your weapon will hit exactly where you aim)
-So I suggest copying it. -3-4 shots a second keeps you accurate. ^This puts it at 312 DPS without any damage mods and skills. ^For comparison, the normal AR does 420 DPS ^I think its fare considering the range you get, and the amount of spare ammo * damage per bullet you have. -If you go faster, up to 5-6 shots a second, it will be extremely hard to control and unlikely to hit anything, but still doable -at cloes range ^This puts it at 468, a bit above the auto AR.
Anything more than that would be impossible to do thanks to a fire rate cap. It will still be useable at close and close-medium range, but it won't be as effective as other weapons that are occupying this space.
If you're telling me that it breaks the weapon, let me ask you a question. At what range is the TAC AR supposed to be used? Another question. Can anything else hit you at that range? (Except the sniper) No?
Here is the thing. I'm using the GLU constantly, I see no reason to use other AR's. And I will still use it if the suggestion here is implemented. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1121
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
3 likes this quickly? Did I just make a proper thread? IMPOSSIBRU |
Jaden HGhar
The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
14
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 This is the best balance suggestion I have heard for the TAC
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Jin Robot
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
650
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I see no need for any AR to have over 70 base dps. Thats seem to be the problem to me, with skills it has beastly dps. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
70
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
yeah this is really a good and fair solution for everybody, even if we have to brace our selfes from the FOTM-player's tears. This will really sort out the good players, and tac lovers ;) |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1123
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:I see no need for any AR to have over 70 base dps. Thats seem to be the problem to me, with skills it has beastly dps. You mean 70 damage right? Because 70 DPS won't get you anywhere lol |
Jin Robot
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
650
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Jin Robot wrote:I see no need for any AR to have over 70 base dps. Thats seem to be the problem to me, with skills it has beastly dps. You mean 70 damage right? Because 70 DPS won't get you anywhere lol You are correct, I meant damage. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1129
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jin Robot wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Jin Robot wrote:I see no need for any AR to have over 70 base dps. Thats seem to be the problem to me, with skills it has beastly dps. You mean 70 damage right? Because 70 DPS won't get you anywhere lol You are correct, I meant damage. Good, because otherwise heavies would be invincible lol |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
93
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
I really wonder why CCP thinks they need to reinvent every game mechanic they encounter. This isn't the first time that there's a semi-automatic rifle in a competitive multiplayer game. Just look at how other games did it and go from there. Fewer time spent on design, better result, more time to come up with unique ideas that don't suck. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1129
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Posted - 2013.05.28 19:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I really wonder why CCP thinks they need to reinvent every game mechanic they encounter. This isn't the first time that there's a semi-automatic rifle in a competitive multiplayer game. Just look at how other games did it and go from there. Fewer time spent on design, better result, more time to come up with unique ideas that don't suck. I understand them. I have some friends who work in the gaming industry as developers. They are too busy actually making the game than watching what other games and developers do.
The only time they do watch is when: A. The community tells them to B. The suits tell them they need to "copy this and that" so they can make X amount of more money |
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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1132
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
meow |
Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
78
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's not like it's all that complicated. Frankly CCP shouldn't drastically increase hip fire spread, the gun still needs to work in CQC. Spread increase and a smaller mag is likely to just break it. Which is seems to be SOP around here.
It's not that hard. Range and DPS should have an inverse relationship, as do Alpha and DPS.
High range and high alpha? Lower DPS High range and higher DPS? Lower Alpha Low range in general should have higher DPS than high range, regardless of alpha. Shotguns have high alpha, AR and HMG have high dps, etc etc
TAR's should be able to shoot accurately at range and in CQC. It should pay for it's range with lower DPS. You won't balance it by trashing its CQC ability, you'll break it. |
stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
10
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
The TAC does need to be addressed, it makes the breach AR completely useless. The TAC does 20 more damage, it out ranges (which it should) by a mile, and it shoots faster. During closed beta they nerfed the breach AR to hell even though the assault AR (which few people used) outclassed it in every way except long range fights. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1135
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:It's not like it's all that complicated. Frankly CCP shouldn't drastically increase hip fire spread, the gun still needs to work in CQC. Spread increase and a smaller mag is likely to just break it. Which is seems to be SOP around here.
It's not that hard. Range and DPS should have an inverse relationship, as do Alpha and DPS.
High range and high alpha? Lower DPS High range and higher DPS? Lower Alpha Low range in general should have higher DPS than high range, regardless of alpha. Shotguns have high alpha, AR and HMG have high dps, etc etc
TAR's should be able to shoot accurately at range and in CQC. It should pay for it's range with lower DPS. You won't balance it by trashing its CQC ability, you'll break it. And I'm not. As you can see, there is still the option to have almost the same DPS as the AR, in exchange for accuracy. If you shot 3-4 bullets a second, its still perfectly accurate. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
264
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
The easiest way to balance the TAR would be to give it stats closer to the breach scrambler pistol. Slow ROF, strong damage. Maybe not quite the damage of the breach, somewhere between the breach and current TAR but with the breach scrambler pistol ROF.
That would balance the gun pretty good. It would lower its DPS and force players to really be careful and skilled in CQ while allowing it to provide its intended role at range. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1135
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:The easiest way to balance the TAR would be to give it stats closer to the breach scrambler pistol. Slow ROF, strong damage. Maybe not quite the damage of the breach, somewhere between the breach and current TAR but with the breach scrambler pistol ROF.
That would balance the gun pretty good. It would lower its DPS and force players to really be careful and skilled in CQ while allowing it to provide its intended role at range. There are many ways to fix it, but they all have the same end result. Limited DPS on the TAC AR. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1140
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
meow |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1659
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Damn good suggestion, Cat Merc. I hope CCP Remnant sees this one. +1
Actually, you should link it to him in IRC. |
Hel Zazaku
BetaMax. CRONOS.
18
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
I support this. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Don't underestimate the effect of increased bullet spread and less ammo in midrange and close quarters. Especially considering the speed drop you get while in ADS.
It kept the MK 14 Mod 0 from owning everything in MAG. |
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Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
79
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
I wasn't referring to you, Cat. I was talking to CCP when I said "you", and I was referring to this:
CCP Remnant wrote:weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time.
I'll bet 5 million ISK they break it. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
305
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
The viziam out ranges the TAC, to me the range on the TAC should be pulled back some and the ROF dropped just a little. The TAC is OP in my eyes but only by a little bit. A rang buff on the entire LR line to make them reach about 10 meters more than the TAC at the standard level and a very small ROF drop in the TAC would probably be more fun than an AR range nerf. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1144
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:I wasn't referring to you, Cat. I was talking to CCP when I said "you", and I was referring to this: CCP Remnant wrote:weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time. I'll bet 5 million ISK they break it. I have 200+ million ISK. I'll bet 200+ million ISK they do. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1144
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:The viziam out ranges the TAC, to me the range on the TAC should be pulled back some and the ROF dropped just a little. The TAC is OP in my eyes but only by a little bit. A rang buff on the entire LR line to make them reach about 10 meters more than the TAC at the standard level and a very small ROF drop in the TAC would probably be more fun than an AR range nerf. The TAC is supposed to have a big range. So no, no range nerf to the TAC AR, it will just break it. |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2013.05.28 20:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
If the stated fixes don't do what they intend, then before they start adjusting the damage I would recommend that they instead increase the zoom a tad in order to re-enforce its place as a mid-long range weapon making ADS in at close range as iffy as it would be with any 2.5 ACOG. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1151
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Posted - 2013.05.28 21:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote:If the stated fixes don't do what they intend, then before they start adjusting the damage I would recommend that they instead increase the zoom a tad in order to re-enforce its place as a mid-long range weapon making ADS in at close range as iffy as it would be with any 2.5 ACOG. With my suggestion, it won't be really necessary. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1153
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Posted - 2013.05.28 21:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
I am a super kitten |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1156
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Posted - 2013.05.28 21:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
rawr |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
413
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Posted - 2013.05.28 22:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP needs to drop the knee-jerk nerf bat and apply some more sophisticated/appropriate tweaks. It may take more effort but it beats the hell out of ruining someones fun every time they apply the nerf bat. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
242
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Posted - 2013.05.28 22:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1 Agreed. It shouldn't matter if the TAR doesn't 'feel right' when you spam it.
However, lower clip size plus a fix to ranges on all weapons may be enough to balance it.
Its impossible to comment on TAR balance until CCP Remnant implements the range fix. |
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