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Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The tremendous market in aurum paid respecs? I wish I could have the respec concession here for a dollar per character. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
546
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:The tremendous market in aurum paid respecs? I wish I could have the respec concession here for a dollar per character. They see the money. They choose to not go all Activision for it.
All respecs will do is give everyone the ability to change into the FotM and stomp on anyone not able to use mommy's credit card. Might not be P2W, but you're definitely left behind without paying.
I will also murder a kitten for every additional thread created on this topic. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1478
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:The tremendous market in aurum paid respecs? I wish I could have the respec concession here for a dollar per character. They see the money. They choose to not go all Activision for it. All respecs will do is give everyone the ability to change into the FotM and stomp on anyone not able to use mommy's credit card. Might not be P2W, but you're definitely left behind without paying. I will also murder a kitten for every additional thread created on this topic. Did you already get Cat Merc? |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
548
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Posted - 2013.05.27 17:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:The tremendous market in aurum paid respecs? I wish I could have the respec concession here for a dollar per character. They see the money. They choose to not go all Activision for it. All respecs will do is give everyone the ability to change into the FotM and stomp on anyone not able to use mommy's credit card. Might not be P2W, but you're definitely left behind without paying. I will also murder a kitten for every additional thread created on this topic. Did you already get Cat Merc? It's gotta be a kitten. Sweet, young, innocent...
Cat Merc has too much blood on his paws. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
138
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Do people even understand what the skillsystem is made for? Do the supporters think the SP system is just there to hinder their path towards world domination, just like in any other modern theme park mmo?
If yes. Why aren't they asking for the removal of the damn thing, instead of pleading to be able to pay cash to negate it's effect? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4670
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.
Make it a once a year thing and penalized/partial refund of SP. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
552
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.
Make it a once a year thing and penalized/partial refund of SP. I'd settle for a once-a-year partial, if only to please the masses. |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1793
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.
Make it a once a year thing and penalized(1 sp refunded back at the cost of 2 sp or something) or partial (one of all current levels refunded that are not a requirement for a higher skill.) and we may start talking. 1 month |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
138
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.
Make it a once a year thing and penalized/partial refund of SP. I'd settle for a once-a-year partial, if only to please the masses. I settle for screw the "masses". There's barely any visible support for the idea beyond bad logic and wrong comparisons to neural remaps and the discussions usually die out after the first wave of counterarguments.
The supporters of the idea just don't want negative consequences for their mistakes and don't value the negative effects as integral part of the philosophy.
I'm fine with them not agreeing with fixed skillpoint distribution just as i don't agree with several design choices in other games. I just don't see why a part of this game wich i value highly has to go, when there's plenty of competition that suits their desires. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.
Make it a once a year thing and penalized(1 sp refunded back at the cost of 2 sp or something) or partial (one of all current levels refunded that are not a requirement for a higher skill.) and we may start talking.
You have a strange approach to never. |
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Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
101
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Posted - 2013.05.27 18:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.
Make it a once a year thing and penalized/partial refund of SP. I'd settle for a once-a-year partial, if only to please the masses. I settle for screw the "masses". There's barely any visible support for the idea beyond bad logic and wrong comparisons to neural remaps and the discussions usually die out after the first wave of counterarguments. The supporters of the idea just don't want negative consequences for their mistakes and don't value the negative effects as integral part of the philosophy. I'm fine with them not agreeing with fixed skillpoint distribution just as i don't agree with several design choices in other games. I just don't see why a part of this game wich i value highly has to go, when there's plenty of competition that suits their desires.
They like Dust, they don't like bottlenecking of valuable SP into roles and skills that are then arbitrarily ruined or contorted beyond indentification. You can like one part of something and dislike others. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4672
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
If I had the absolute say it would be never.
but I don't and I set down my secondary limitation. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
763
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Imagine how much money CCP could earn if, after each day of programming / artistry / etc, the devs (male and (especially) female) went out and sold their bodies for the pleasure of drunken vikings?
They could make a killing.
And I'm sure there's someone out there with a sock fetish. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:
They like Dust, they don't like bottlenecking of valuable SP into roles and skills that are then arbitrarily ruined or contorted beyond identification. You can like one part of something and dislike others.
Sure they can.
I just fail to understand why a skillsystem that is reduced to more SP = better is of any inherent value to them. The fixed system wants to make specialization an increasing commitment the further you go, thus providing your merc a unique "identity" and the feeling that you make important choices that might turn out wrong.
Take the "identity" thing out by respecs and we're left with meaningless numbers limiting your gameplay experience because you don't buy enough boosters or don't grind enough. What we're left with is a skinner box design and i don't see why anyone would want this in a competitive FPS.
Addendum: I don't give a flying umbrella for grinding if it's not the central purpose of the game (Borderlance series, Diablo 3) and the unchangeable nature, combined with diminishing returns, is the only thing that justifies it's very existence within DUST 514. That's why i think that it must stay unchangeable. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:
They like Dust, they don't like bottlenecking of valuable SP into roles and skills that are then arbitrarily ruined or contorted beyond identification. You can like one part of something and dislike others.
Sure they can. I just fail to understand why a skillsystem that is reduced to more SP = better is of any inherent value to them. The fixed system wants to make specialization an increasing commitment the further you go, thus providing your merc a unique "identity" and the feeling that you make important choices that might turn out wrong. Take the "identity" thing out by respecs and we're left with meaningless numbers limiting your gameplay experience because you don't buy enough boosters or don't grind enough. What we're left with is a skinner box design and i don't see why anyone would want this in a competitive FPS.
People tend to commit more readily to something that isn't a perpetual shot in the dark. Quit pushing the flaws of the Pinto on the nasty Ford drivers. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Imagine how much money CCP could earn if, after each day of programming / artistry / etc, the devs (male and (especially) female) went out and sold their bodies for the pleasure of drunken vikings?
They could make a killing.
And I'm sure there's someone out there with a sock fetish.
Well, you have to admit when people make the P2W argument, lots of folks trot out the "they gotta make money somehow!" pony. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If I had the absolute say it would be never.
but I don't and I set down my secondary limitation.
I rather improve the tree up a bit than to constantly issue out respecs as more and more options become available.
Me too, but that's not what I've seen offered so far. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:
They like Dust, they don't like bottlenecking of valuable SP into roles and skills that are then arbitrarily ruined or contorted beyond identification. You can like one part of something and dislike others.
Sure they can. I just fail to understand why a skillsystem that is reduced to more SP = better is of any inherent value to them. The fixed system wants to make specialization an increasing commitment the further you go, thus providing your merc a unique "identity" and the feeling that you make important choices that might turn out wrong. Take the "identity" thing out by respecs and we're left with meaningless numbers limiting your gameplay experience because you don't buy enough boosters or don't grind enough. What we're left with is a skinner box design and i don't see why anyone would want this in a competitive FPS. People tend to commit more readily to something that isn't a perpetual shot in the dark. Quit pushing blame for the the flaws of the Pinto on the nasty Ford drivers. Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not sure what to take from this.
Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Well, you have to admit when people make the P2W argument, lots of folks trot out the "they gotta make money somehow!" pony.
The P2W argument is a weak one since alt accounts are free i agree, but the fact that CCP could make money is also irrelevant to me. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
402
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
If the game is going to keep changing... offer a base amount of 1 per year or something... allowing a maximum of another 1 or 2 per year for aurum. Why not -- you don't get anything special from a respec -- you just get to switch into something else without having to bake an alt for half a year. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:
They like Dust, they don't like bottlenecking of valuable SP into roles and skills that are then arbitrarily ruined or contorted beyond identification. You can like one part of something and dislike others.
Sure they can. I just fail to understand why a skillsystem that is reduced to more SP = better is of any inherent value to them. The fixed system wants to make specialization an increasing commitment the further you go, thus providing your merc a unique "identity" and the feeling that you make important choices that might turn out wrong. Take the "identity" thing out by respecs and we're left with meaningless numbers limiting your gameplay experience because you don't buy enough boosters or don't grind enough. What we're left with is a skinner box design and i don't see why anyone would want this in a competitive FPS. People tend to commit more readily to something that isn't a perpetual shot in the dark. Quit pushing blame for the the flaws of the Pinto on the nasty Ford drivers. Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not sure what to take from this.
Sorry, the metaphor meant something to me that I couldn't guarantee the reader. CCP does substantially change the game at times. The respecs are a nod to the fact that they owe a bit of a re-go to people who have committed to things that have radically changed on them. Until CCP delivers a more predictable product, it's no great act of impurity to offer a way to adjust to the changes. |
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Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:If the game is going to keep changing... offer a base amount of 1 per year or something... allowing a maximum of another 1 or 2 per year for aurum. Why not -- you don't get anything special from a respec -- you just get to switch into something else without having to bake an alt for half a year. What's with the new players who are unable to stand a chance with respecced vets, instead of having a more level playing field when filling a new role.Also, anyone can choose to conserve SP for new content when it's released to have an edge but with respecs that's another choice that is rendered obsolete. |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Crash Monster wrote:If the game is going to keep changing... offer a base amount of 1 per year or something... allowing a maximum of another 1 or 2 per year for aurum. Why not -- you don't get anything special from a respec -- you just get to switch into something else without having to bake an alt for half a year. What's with the new players who are unable to stand a chance with respecced vets. Anyone can choose to conserve SP for new content when it's released to have an edge but with respecs that's another choice that is rendered obsolete.
Well, the argument is that it pays to be a vet. Respeccing is yet another superpower that vets have, like proto gear. |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
If anything have partial respecs when new weapons, Scout and Heavy Dropsuits, HAV's, Dropships, LAV's come out. But really Just putting your sp into passive stuff and picking your current favorite you can't go wrong. Just save sp for the future and test new weapons on an alt. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1490
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 18:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am in favor of respecs as long as we are still in beta. However once the skill tree stabilizes and we attain a modicum of balance for the first time that should end.
Until we get out of beta the whole game is in such a state of flux that players can't possibly make informed decisions. Major skill branches whither and die with each build and hotfix. It's unfair to leave folks stranded in dead branches that were viable when they first took them. |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 19:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I am in favor of respecs as long as we are still in beta. However once the skill tree stabilizes and we attain a modicum of balance for the first time that should end.
Until we get out of beta the whole game is in such a state of flux that players can't possibly make informed decisions. Major skill branches whither and die with each build and hotfix. It's unfair to leave folks stranded in dead branches that were viable when they first took them.
Technically we are out of Beta as of 5/14 2013 when the game was officially released. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
141
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 19:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Crash Monster wrote:If the game is going to keep changing... offer a base amount of 1 per year or something... allowing a maximum of another 1 or 2 per year for aurum. Why not -- you don't get anything special from a respec -- you just get to switch into something else without having to bake an alt for half a year. What's with the new players who are unable to stand a chance with respecced vets. Anyone can choose to conserve SP for new content when it's released to have an edge but with respecs that's another choice that is rendered obsolete. Well, the argument is that it pays to be a vet. Respeccing is yet another superpower that vets have, like proto gear. Why give them an irtificial superpower? Why is it a good thing for the game when vets are to no longer accountable for their decisions and can maintain their superiority in virtually anything indefinitely without any cognitive effort?
One of the best qualities of the skilltree is that there's a limit of power to be be gained through SP thus allowing new players to become relevant even with a fraction of the SP if they make the correct choices. I'm nowhere near protolevel but, as a player, i'd consider a level of choice to be taken from me to be a loss. I want an interesting and challenging experience more than ultimate power. |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 19:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Here's a crazy idea, 10 SP exchanged for 1 Aurum. Bringing a skill down a level will be relatively cheap for lower level, and a much higher expense at higher levels. 800,000 Sp skill exchanged taking 80,000 Aurum or Approx 40 U.S. dollars. The option is there if you really want to switch weapons for FOTM or you could grind for a couple of weeks. If people don't like the price than nothing changes. If it does then it will only be a few people and not necessarily be P2W. It would require vast amounts to make a huge impact, and there are those who will throw in a lot of cash. In the end if it brings in a large influx of cash CCP can hire more staff and the gameplay would improve for everyone.
Still trying to find the body for my nanite injector. There it is. stab stab stab stab gets shot at weapon doesn't switch first time tried tries again everybody dies
I don't mind a little pay to win, killing people in Aurum bought suites and vehicles is extremely satisfying, but I'd at least like to lose fairly. Bugs kill more of the fun than people who throw a lot of money into their gear.
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Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians Orion Empire
141
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 19:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:
Sorry, the metaphor meant something to me that I couldn't guarantee the reader. CCP does substantially change the game at times. The respecs are a nod to the fact that they owe a bit of a re-go to people who have committed to things that have radically changed on them. Until CCP delivers a more predictable product, it's no great act of impurity to offer a way to adjust to the changes.
That's a valid point. Bigger changes that are out of the player's control should not deteriorate their experience. About a third of the heavy users would like want a different race's suit and might very well be eligible for respecs when racial symmetry gets implemented.
But things that are not here yet (pilot suits, stuff that is not even known currently) are a different matter and i think that everyone should get the same chance to spec into them regardless of their allocated SP. I will conserve my SP the instant the rail AR get's a release date to get into it as fast as possible. That way i get my "vet advantage" but also will need to have foresight to do so. |
Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 20:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'd be fine with no respecs IF CCP didn't have a long and glorious history of breaking things they decide to "adjust." |
Onesimus Tarsus
GamersForChrist
106
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 20:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Crash Monster wrote:If the game is going to keep changing... offer a base amount of 1 per year or something... allowing a maximum of another 1 or 2 per year for aurum. Why not -- you don't get anything special from a respec -- you just get to switch into something else without having to bake an alt for half a year. What's with the new players who are unable to stand a chance with respecced vets. Anyone can choose to conserve SP for new content when it's released to have an edge but with respecs that's another choice that is rendered obsolete. Well, the argument is that it pays to be a vet. Respeccing is yet another superpower that vets have, like proto gear. Why give them an irtificial superpower? Why is it a good thing for the game when vets are to no longer accountable for their decisions and can maintain their superiority in virtually anything indefinitely without any cognitive effort? One of the best qualities of the skilltree is that there's a limit of power to be be gained through SP thus allowing new players to become relevant even with a fraction of the SP if they make the correct choices. I'm nowhere near protolevel but, as a player, i'd consider a level of choice to be taken from me to be a loss. I want an interesting and challenging experience more than ultimate power.
Stay in militia gear then. |
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