The tremendous market in aurum paid respecs? I wish I could have the respec concession here for a dollar per character.

They see the money. They choose to not go all Activision for it.

All respecs will do is give everyone the ability to change into the FotM and stomp on anyone not able to use mommy's credit card. Might not be P2W, but you're definitely left behind without paying.

I will also murder a kitten for every additional thread created on this topic.

Did you already get Cat Merc?

I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.

Make it a once a year thing and penalized/partial refund of SP.

I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.

Make it a once a year thing and penalized(1 sp refunded back at the cost of 2 sp or something) or partial (one of all current levels refunded that are not a requirement for a higher skill.) and we may start talking.

I'd settle for a once-a-year partial, if only to please the masses.

I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.

Make it a once a year thing and penalized(1 sp refunded back at the cost of 2 sp or something) or partial (one of all current levels refunded that are not a requirement for a higher skill.) and we may start talking.

I settle for screw the "masses". There's barely any visible support for the idea beyond bad logic and wrong comparisons to neural remaps and the discussions usually die out after the first wave of counterarguments.

The supporters of the idea just don't want negative consequences for their mistakes and don't value the negative effects as integral part of the philosophy.

I'm fine with them not agreeing with fixed skillpoint distribution just as i don't agree with several design choices in other games. I just don't see why a part of this game wich i value highly has to go, when there's plenty of competition that suits their desires.

They like Dust, they don't like bottlenecking of valuable SP into roles and skills that are then arbitrarily ruined or contorted beyond identification. You can like one part of something and dislike others.

Sure they can.

I just fail to understand why a skillsystem that is reduced to more SP = better is of any inherent value to them. The fixed system wants to make specialization an increasing commitment the further you go, thus providing your merc a unique "identity" and the feeling that you make important choices that might turn out wrong.

Take the "identity" thing out by respecs and we're left with meaningless numbers limiting your gameplay experience because you don't buy enough boosters or don't grind enough. What we're left with is a skinner box design and i don't see why anyone would want this in a competitive FPS.

Imagine how much money CCP could earn if, after each day of programming / artistry / etc, the devs (male and (especially) female) went out and sold their bodies for the pleasure of drunken vikings?

They could make a killing.

And I'm sure there's someone out there with a sock fetish.

If I had the absolute say it would be never.

but I don't and I set down my secondary limitation.

I rather improve the tree up a bit than to constantly issue out respecs as more and more options become available.

People tend to commit more readily to something that isn't a perpetual shot in the dark. Quit pushing blame for the the flaws of the Pinto on the nasty Ford drivers.

Well, you have to admit when people make the P2W argument, lots of folks trot out the "they gotta make money somehow!" pony.

Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not sure what to take from this.

If the game is going to keep changing... offer a base amount of 1 per year or something... allowing a maximum of another 1 or 2 per year for aurum. Why not -- you don't get anything special from a respec -- you just get to switch into something else without having to bake an alt for half a year.

What's with the new players who are unable to stand a chance with respecced vets. Anyone can choose to conserve SP for new content when it's released to have an edge but with respecs that's another choice that is rendered obsolete.

I am in favor of respecs as long as we are still in beta. However once the skill tree stabilizes and we attain a modicum of balance for the first time that should end.

Until we get out of beta the whole game is in such a state of flux that players can't possibly make informed decisions. Major skill branches whither and die with each build and hotfix. It's unfair to leave folks stranded in dead branches that were viable when they first took them.

Well, the argument is that it pays to be a vet. Respeccing is yet another superpower that vets have, like proto gear.

Sorry, the metaphor meant something to me that I couldn't guarantee the reader. CCP does substantially change the game at times. The respecs are a nod to the fact that they owe a bit of a re-go to people who have committed to things that have radically changed on them. Until CCP delivers a more predictable product, it's no great act of impurity to offer a way to adjust to the changes.

Why give them an irtificial superpower? Why is it a good thing for the game when vets are to no longer accountable for their decisions and can maintain their superiority in virtually anything indefinitely without any cognitive effort?

One of the best qualities of the skilltree is that there's a limit of power to be be gained through SP thus allowing new players to become relevant even with a fraction of the SP if they make the correct choices. I'm nowhere near protolevel but, as a player, i'd consider a level of choice to be taken from me to be a loss. I want an interesting and challenging experience more than ultimate power.

Stay in militia gear then.

I am also up for there NEVER being any more respecs. No yearly ones, no aurum ones. none.

It just lessens the very idea of which this game is supposed to be.

Really? We just had a nice exchange and you leave me with this?

I am dissapoint.

Technically we are out of Beta as of 5/14 2013 when the game was officially released.

There is name and condition.

CCP has released a beta product and everyone who has been around for a while knows it.
I am not going to argue the wisdom of it, but I will question the intellect of anyone who claims th+ít DUST is release quality.

I'm not complaining about it either, I'm just asking that we acknowledge what it is and treat it appropriately.

You are most disappoint, I would wager, because of the checkmate. The argument is that people should accept some artificial limitation to their character development. When I suggested one that would severely limit you, you felt it.

I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.

Make it a once a year thing and penalized(1 sp refunded back at the cost of 2 sp or something) or partial (one of all current levels refunded that are not a requirement for a higher skill.) and we may start talking.

When nerfs are made, players indeed should have a respec option. After all, its not what a player spec'd into.

Did you already get Cat Merc?

When nerfs are made, players indeed should have a respec option. After all, its not what a player spec'd into.

One must ponder the wave after wave of people getting into this "release quality" game, only to find out that they lacked the required precognative powers for it. "What? You didn't know this will always be beta?" You took CCP at their word?" Noob.

They see the money. They choose to not go all Activision for it.

All respecs will do is give everyone the ability to change into the FotM and stomp on anyone not able to use mommy's credit card. Might not be P2W, but you're definitely left behind without paying.

I will also murder a kitten for every additional thread created on this topic.

I am going to put my foot down and say no to 'respec' at anytime.

Make it a once a year thing and penalized(1 sp refunded back at the cost of 2 sp or something) or partial (one of all current levels refunded that are not a requirement for a higher skill.) and we may start talking.

QFT.

Flavor of the Month champions forever.

What i felt is something that i can only identify as an ad hominem of some sorts, in all honesty.

The skilltree is designed in such a way so that it can't be capped out. There inherent danger of such a system is that joining earlier means more power without any prospect of ever becoming relevant for new players wich is a really bad design for any product that aims for a longer lifespan.

That is alleviated by two concepts:

Branching and Seperation:
While the total amount of possible SP gain is practically unlimited most skills are affecting only a specific set of situations so that, for any situation, there's a comparatively limited set of skills that actually change the outcome. This creates a threshold above wich more SP can not be used to provide a further advantage over someone with lower SP. That gives older and newer players an environment in wich it is possible to face each other on equal terms thus provides both a challenging gameplay experience.

Shifting through Addition:
New content is regulary added to provide new combinations and therethore more possible situations, wich an older character can face. That relativises his otherwise unchallangable superiority and forces him to adapt to ongoing changes while at the same time provides newer players a niche in wich they can compete and improve with vets on equal terms. This again gives new players a reason to join and keeps the game interesting for older players.

Is it clear why these artificial limitations have to exist and why your checkmate is nonsense now, so we can go back to usefull arguments?

Ad hominem = calling someone's idea nonsense after formulating a two paragraph word-vomit that sidesteps the point that checkmated them into oblivion. You wouldn't ever want to be limited to militia gear, so that is a limit too low. But, let the SP pile up to where all you have to do is "adjust" to some minor skilling change or weapons nerf, and suddenly you're happy to accept the limit. Why? Because you have reached a level of power that you are sure some new player can't protractedly challenge you upon.

You invented two vague terminologies, and fanned them like reclining empresses, yet you did not give one concrete example of their application. How can someone with vastly more SP to spend ever be substantially challenged by a lower-tiered character unless the admission is given that the time then spent amassing power (SP) is an utter waste of time? Thus, the RPG elements of the game are broken and we are right back where we started, in a flavor of the month weapons dash that has absolutely none of the potential richness of EvE aside from what might as well be random in-game generated orbital strikes.

That is precisely why SP must be at least part of the formula that disallows certain people playing against each other, because having some newbie cruise in with militia gear and repeatedly douse a 3-year veteran of what is touted as a progressive skill tree is just as unfair as subjecting said newbie get stomped by proto-squads in every public game after Academy.

Oh, and I call lie on the idea that the skill tree cannot be maxed out. They would either have to announce a point at which points are no longer applied to real skills (capped out), or the skill trees go on ad infinitum, wherein your gear exceeds 100% effectiveness in all situations (capped out).

I am finished re-winning this argument, you may move on to another.

Ad hominem means arguing towards the person. That's what you did when you insinuated motivation on my end without any justification and pretended that it did anything to my argument even if it were correct. That's what i called nonsense, not your "idea" (are you trying to feel attacked right here?)

I fanned nothing, my ideas and explanations stand an fall on their own merits. Wether you callenge them on a factual basis or reject them out of hand lies beyond my power.

Examples you wanted? With pleasure:
Take two Assault characters with the same gear and all relevant skills at level V (tank, eq, nades, guns, coreskills). Who will win? Probably the better shot.

Does it matter if one has ten times the SP of the other in this situation? No, because all skills that are left to spec into will not have any impact on the performance in this particular situation whatsoever.

More SP != More power beyond a certain point. All you get is more possibilities. That is a basic attribute of the system and you failing or refusing to understand this implies ignorance of the underlying matter (the goddamn skillsytem) on your behalf.

It's also interesting that you call me a liar. Do you know how many characters in EVE exist that are maxed out in SP? No such a character exists while there are plenty who have been active from day one. In fact the highest SP chars are just somewhere past 50-60% after 10 years.

Do you know how long the current Dust skills take to max? About six-seven years. Are you aware of all the stuff that is beeing worked on right now, each with it's own set of new skills, further increasing that time? Do you understand that CCP will add more and more SP hungry skills in the coming years?

Have you considered looking up facts that are readily available within seconds of a forum search before accusing me of dishonesty and leaving the discussion with one great tantrum?

Ad hominem means arguing towards the person. That's what you did when you insinuated motivation on my end without any justification and pretended that it did anything to my argument even if it were correct. That's what i called nonsense, not your "idea" (are you trying to feel attacked right here?)

I fanned nothing, my ideas and explanations stand an fall on their own merits. Wether you callenge them on a factual basis or reject them out of hand lies beyond my power.

Examples you wanted? With pleasure:
Take two Assault characters with the same gear and all relevant skills at level V (tank, eq, nades, guns, coreskills). Who will win? Probably the better shot.

Does it matter if one has ten times the SP of the other in this situation? No, because all skills that are left to spec into will not have any impact on the performance in this particular situation whatsoever.

More SP != More power beyond a certain point. All you get is more possibilities. That is a basic attribute of the system and you failing or refusing to understand this implies ignorance of the underlying matter (the goddamn skillsytem) on your behalf.

It's also interesting that you call me a liar. Do you know how many characters in EVE exist that are maxed out in SP? No such a character exists while there are plenty who have been active from day one. In fact the highest SP chars are just somewhere past 50-60% after 10 years.

Do you know how long the current Dust skills take to max? About six-seven years. Are you aware of all the stuff that is beeing worked on right now, each with it's own set of new skills, further increasing that time? Do you understand that CCP will add more and more SP hungry skills in the coming years?

Have you considered looking up facts that are readily available within seconds of a forum search before accusing me of dishonesty and leaving the discussion with one great tantrum?