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Fiasco Llana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
282
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm talking no lifers or people that just play alot (no offense intended)
Are dropships really that bad? It seems like if you were maxed out in dropships (say you're a armor assault ds pilot) and you had all your armor plates and PG and CPU armor hardeners, damage control. It would make some difference right?
I fly a Myron at the moment but will be respeccing completely into dropships, not even going to choose a base class to start as. And I can last an entire match even with forges/railguns on the map. Are dropships really that bad or are people just complaining to be complaining? |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
338
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
My Python costs 1.3M ISK. In order to gain money, I need to keep it around for 6 matches straight and average 250,000 ISK for those matches. I can pull off 3 matches, but 6 is asking a bit much. My cash supply is dwindling. |
Moochie Cricket
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
264
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Proto dropship vs standard AV is balanced. Proto dropship vs advanced AV is possible if the pilot is very good. Proto dropship vs proto AV is a complete waste of isk. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1456
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
It does make a difference.
About 5-10 seconds of additional survivability.
Unfortunately it takes 20 seconds to go from a low velocity low level position required to do anything useful to get behind cover or build a decent velocity to make getting hit less likely.
So what you get is a bit more "Oh ****, Oh ****, Oh ****!" time as you see your shields and armor wind down to zero. |
Fiasco Llana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
282
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:My Python costs 1.3M ISK. In order to gain money, I need to keep it around for 6 matches straight and average 250,000 ISK for those matches. I can pull off 3 matches, but 6 is asking a bit much. My cash supply is dwindling.
See here's the other thing. You don't always have to use that python. Why not get in a Myron with all your advanced, proto shield hardeners and stuff and that would lower the cost drastically.
And with all that maneuverability of the ADS, put boosters on it and that reduces the amount of time it takes to get away/hit flight ceiling. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1456
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fiasco Llana wrote:Halador Osiris wrote:My Python costs 1.3M ISK. In order to gain money, I need to keep it around for 6 matches straight and average 250,000 ISK for those matches. I can pull off 3 matches, but 6 is asking a bit much. My cash supply is dwindling. See here's the other thing. You don't always have to use that python. Why not get in a Myron with all your advanced, proto shield hardeners and stuff and that would lower the cost drastically. And with all that maneuverability of the ADS, put boosters on it and that reduces the amount of time it takes to get away/hit flight ceiling.
Module and turret costs are the largest factor in total cost, and none of the options are financially sustainable. Some are bad and others are pisspoor. |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fiasco Llana wrote:I'm talking no lifers or people that just play alot (no offense intended)
Are dropships really that bad? It seems like if you were maxed out in dropships (say you're a armor assault ds pilot) and you had all your armor plates and PG and CPU armor hardeners, damage control. It would make some difference right?
I fly a Myron at the moment but will be respeccing completely into dropships, not even going to choose a base class to start as. And I can last an entire match even with forges/railguns on the map. Are dropships really that bad or are people just complaining to be complaining?
As a dropship pilot with most of my SP in them, the hardeners, both active and passive are well worth it. They make the difference between a proto tank one-shotting you, and them having to hit you 3-4 times to take you down. Your maneuverability is your defense and your offense. Use them.
Find a team that will work with you, man your turrets, nullify anti-vehicle soldiers, and you will do fine.
I am a pretty dedicated Dropship pilot, but it doesn't mean I don't have a life. Just saying. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1758
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you want an idea of how bad it can be, I started uprising with 90m ISK, I'm currently sitting at 23m ISK. the only reason I've stopped losing isk is because of several very fun hours of death taxi'ing in my saga.
The biggest problem IMO is the damage output of proto AV and the charge up time of the assault forge gun. The simple fact is that proto av can 1 shot your dropship or two shot it before you your reactions actually take effect, and by that I mean while you may recognise the threat and take action in a second, such as trying to avoid the next shot or activating modules, you won't actually see any effect for about two seconds, that's the delay for modules to activate or any real change in your position if your stationary. |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Proto dropship vs standard AV is balanced. Proto dropship vs advanced AV is possible if the pilot is very good. Proto dropship vs proto AV is a complete waste of isk.
With the right speed boosters you can engage ground targets and gtfo rather quickly. The only problems I run into are the proto assault guns. They won't one shot me, but they can land a couple of hits on me even with my high speed. I am not complaining though, because if they weren't shooting at me, I would just park above them and faceroll their entire team for the duration of the match. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fiasco Llana wrote:See here's the other thing. You don't always have to use that python. Why not get in a Myron with all your advanced, proto shield hardeners and stuff and that would lower the cost drastically. It's true, the rate of one-hit-kills is the same regardless of whether you're in a 450k standard fitting or a 1 mil. ISK prototype everything dropship. However, the standard dropship now also gets shot down by advanced or prototype AV really quickly and still isn't ISK-sustainable.
I'm a big supporter of "don't use what you can't afford", but the affordable stuff isn't worth the ISK either. That 50% dropship chassis price reduction that has been rumored might turn things around. Though the modules make half the cost even for the basic fitting. |
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Medic 1879
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
377
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
I finally got to fly the ADS yesterday an enemy called one in I killed him and hacked it, I was so excited I never saw that RDV about 7seconds after take off. Or maybe I didn't see it because the damn thing uncloaked at the exact moment of impact. |
Moochie Cricket
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
264
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:Proto dropship vs standard AV is balanced. Proto dropship vs advanced AV is possible if the pilot is very good. Proto dropship vs proto AV is a complete waste of isk. With the right speed boosters you can engage ground targets and gtfo rather quickly. The only problems I run into are the proto assault guns. They won't one shot me, but they can land a couple of hits on me even with my high speed. I am not complaining though, because if they weren't shooting at me, I would just park above them and faceroll their entire team for the duration of the match.
This means you must constantly be at high speed to avoid death. However, a dropship at high speeds is useless. You can't pick people up at high speeds and can't act as a gunship at high speeds.
|
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1759
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Medic 1879 wrote:I finally got to fly the ADS yesterday an enemy called one in I killed him and hacked it, I was so excited I never saw that RDV about 7seconds after take off. Or maybe I didn't see it because the damn thing uncloaked at the exact moment of impact. See, I don't get the surprise RDV's, I get the RDV's that gives you two seconds to let your fate sink but not quite enough tiger out the way. |
Moochie Cricket
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
264
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 20:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Medic 1879 wrote:I finally got to fly the ADS yesterday an enemy called one in I killed him and hacked it, I was so excited I never saw that RDV about 7seconds after take off. Or maybe I didn't see it because the damn thing uncloaked at the exact moment of impact. See, I don't get the surprise RDV's, I get the RDV's that gives you two seconds to let your fate sink but not quite enough tiger out the way.
I don't even try getting out of the way anymore. I just pull my pants down and bend over. |
Felix Faraday
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
It's very difficult.
Missile Installations will shoot at you half a map a way. Railgun tanks will sit in the redline and snipe at you where you can do almost nothing about them. FGs will eat 2/3rds of even a well-fitted DS in 1 shot, or straight up 1-shot lesser-fitted ones. Swarms will chase you all over the map. People on your own team will shot at you from Rail Installations just to watch you bounce around.
If you support ground attacks though, you can be very useful. If you see a few guys attacking an objective, hover over them and support them. If the guys on the ground switch to AV, then they get killed quickly by your ground guys. If they don't, you rain death on them. Just like a tank, if you run solo, you're a much easier target.
You need absolute map awareness though. Know where enemy installations are. Learn what their AI targetting range is. Pay attention to when the enemy is stealing one of your installations. Do flybys to monitor common tank snipe spots. Check building tops for Swarm carriers. Learn to recognize the glow of a FG charging up. etc. etc.
And you can't be stubborn, you have to know when to put the DS away. I played one game, there were 2 well-fitted FGs sitting on a mountain top happily firing away at everything. My DS got recalled for that game, and I did something else.
DSs need a buff, no doubt. And they aren't economically sustainable. And you won't be getting much WP. And blueberries won't want to get a ride from them. And RDVs will insta-pop you any chance they get. And And And...
But they *can* be useful and fun....
|
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:Proto dropship vs standard AV is balanced. Proto dropship vs advanced AV is possible if the pilot is very good. Proto dropship vs proto AV is a complete waste of isk. With the right speed boosters you can engage ground targets and gtfo rather quickly. The only problems I run into are the proto assault guns. They won't one shot me, but they can land a couple of hits on me even with my high speed. I am not complaining though, because if they weren't shooting at me, I would just park above them and faceroll their entire team for the duration of the match. This means you must constantly be at high speed to avoid death. However, a dropship at high speeds is useless. You can't pick people up at high speeds and can't act as a gunship at high speeds.
You didn't hear me correctly. You must learn how to enter engagements and how to pull out. You can't expect to survive staying engaged on ground targets 100 percent, and you will be very sad and useless if you stay 100 percent moving and out of combat. |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Finding that balance between engaging the enemy and dodging fire is what differentiates the lower skilled pilots and those that will face roll the enemy. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
3171
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maxed out logistics ship with nothing but tank, costs like 1.3M, and still drops like a fly to all kinds of things, mostly forge guns and rail guns though.
Or me crashing into the ground trying to do some crazy maneuver trying to avoid said weapons
If you don't spec out of dropships with this respec, then you're doing it wrong. |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Felix Faraday wrote:It's very difficult.
Missile Installations will shoot at you half a map a way. Railgun tanks will sit in the redline and snipe at you where you can do almost nothing about them. FGs will eat 2/3rds of even a well-fitted DS in 1 shot, or straight up 1-shot lesser-fitted ones. Swarms will chase you all over the map. People on your own team will shot at you from Rail Installations just to watch you bounce around.
If you support ground attacks though, you can be very useful. If you see a few guys attacking an objective, hover over them and support them. If the guys on the ground switch to AV, then they get killed quickly by your ground guys. If they don't, you rain death on them. Just like a tank, if you run solo, you're a much easier target.
You need absolute map awareness though. Know where enemy installations are. Learn what their AI targetting range is. Pay attention to when the enemy is stealing one of your installations. Do flybys to monitor common tank snipe spots. Check building tops for Swarm carriers. Learn to recognize the glow of a FG charging up. etc. etc.
And you can't be stubborn, you have to know when to put the DS away. I played one game, there were 2 well-fitted FGs sitting on a mountain top happily firing away at everything. My DS got recalled for that game, and I did something else.
DSs need a buff, no doubt. And they aren't economically sustainable. And you won't be getting much WP. And blueberries won't want to get a ride from them. And RDVs will insta-pop you any chance they get. And And And...
But they *can* be useful and fun....
Each of those problems can be dealt with by just being aware.
If you are playing Caldari Dropships, you will laugh in the face of missile damage, but rail/forge guns will hurt you.
They are pricey and for a reason. They are deadly and effective craft that shouldn't be able to be spammable or they lose their value, in my opinion. Many good corporations will fund your dropship losses. If they are not, find one that will. If you have skill, you will be funded. Good flying! |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Maxed out logistics ship with nothing but tank, costs like 1.3M, and still drops like a fly to all kinds of things, mostly forge guns and rail guns though. Or me crashing into the ground trying to do some crazy maneuver trying to avoid said weapons If you don't spec out of dropships with this respec, then you're doing it wrong.
No, you are just a fail dropship. If you want to do crazy maneuvers, go assault. If you have a squad who watches your back, go logistics. THINK.
but one less fail pilot gives me less competition for the ISKies. :) |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
3171
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:No, you are just a fail dropship. If you want to do crazy maneuvers, go assault. If you have a squad who watches your back, go logistics. THINK.
but one less fail pilot gives me less competition for the ISKies. :)
Whatever you say buddy.
The last line of your post proves that I am right and you are painfully wrong.
My forge gun will be primed for your sad little coffin soon enough |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
I wouldn't mind a buff though. Then I could truly be invincible and god mode in the sky. |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:No, you are just a fail dropship. If you want to do crazy maneuvers, go assault. If you have a squad who watches your back, go logistics. THINK.
but one less fail pilot gives me less competition for the ISKies. :) Whatever you say buddy. The last line of your post proves that I am right and you are painfully wrong. My forge gun will be primed for your sad little coffin soon enough
That is if you can hit me. I have a very well fit gallente assault, and you will NOT one shot me. 3 shots, with a proto, more with lower tier. Consider that I am NOT running solo, and forge guns are easy to spot, my Assault groundpounding buddies will kill you, if I do not circle strafe pound you down to dust.
For every Swarm Launcher or Forge gunner, that is one less Tactical AR hitting my friends on the ground. Even dodging your fire helps my ground bound buddies. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
3171
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:That is if you can hit me. I have a very well fit gallente assault, and you will NOT one shot me. 3 shots, with a proto, more with lower tier. Consider that I am NOT running solo, and forge guns are easy to spot, my Assault groundpounding buddies will kill you, if I do not circle strafe pound you down to dust.
For every Swarm Launcher or Forge gunner, that is one less Tactical AR hitting my friends on the ground. Even dodging your fire helps my ground bound buddies.
Good luck avoiding my breach, you aren't the only one that rolls with a squad
|
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
)[/quote]
Whatever you say buddy.
The last line of your post proves that I am right and you are painfully wrong.
My forge gun will be primed for your sad little coffin soon enough [/quote]
The last one does nothing of the sort. The weak pilots are getting filtered out, and the strong will be the only ones flying and being contracted into PC battles. You can call it a sad little coffin, but this 'sad little coffin' will be the last thing you see before I send you to hell. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
3171
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:)The last one does nothing of the sort. The weak pilots are getting filtered out, and the strong will be the only ones flying and being contracted into PC battles. You can call it a sad little coffin, but this 'sad little coffin' will be the last thing you see before I send you to hell.
That's true. Sometimes dropships land on you when they die |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:That is if you can hit me. I have a very well fit gallente assault, and you will NOT one shot me. 3 shots, with a proto, more with lower tier. Consider that I am NOT running solo, and forge guns are easy to spot, my Assault groundpounding buddies will kill you, if I do not circle strafe pound you down to dust.
For every Swarm Launcher or Forge gunner, that is one less Tactical AR hitting my friends on the ground. Even dodging your fire helps my ground bound buddies. Good luck avoiding my breach, you aren't the only one that rolls with a squad
BAHAHAHA Breach has a slower rate of fire and you will need to hit me more than once to take me down, even with your increased damage potential.
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Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Roll Assault FG if you want to take out a Dropship.
Higher ROF and good damage potential can really devastate us.
Thats just my perspective on it. I have never lost a DS to a Breach but I have lost them to Assaults FGs. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
3171
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:Roll Assault FG if you want to take out a Dropship.
Higher ROF and good damage potential can really devastate us.
Thats just my perspective on it. I have never lost a DS to a Breach but I have lost them to Assaults FGs.
I've been flying and forge gunning for a year, Breach is where it's at. Surprise alpha with the follow up on the recovery.
I will make it rain dropships until CCP finally fixes forge guns and makes dropships worth flying again |
Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
102
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:Roll Assault FG if you want to take out a Dropship.
Higher ROF and good damage potential can really devastate us.
Thats just my perspective on it. I have never lost a DS to a Breach but I have lost them to Assaults FGs. I've been flying and forge gunning for a year, Breach is where it's at. Surprise alpha with the follow up on the recovery. I will make it rain dropships until CCP finally fixes forge guns and makes dropships worth flying again
You may eat slow-flying noobs with them, but with experienced, well fit dropships like myself, we will shrug your damage off, fly out of range, and repair while cooldowns come back. |
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