Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I finally figured out the problem with the Gallente medium suits. They have the opposite problem of the heavy. The heavy is a very good suit at the low end, but when you get to the high end, the suit becomes almost useless in comparison to other suits.
The Gallente medium is a VERY good suit at the high end, but at the low end is very pointless. Why? Damage mods.
The power of the Gallente suit is that you can both tank and gank at the same time. At the low end, you get one damage mod slot. With it, you barely feel the gank and you feel how bad the regen of armor tanking is. Which is why I've been telling people that the extra damage doesn't make much of a difference, and I would much prefer the regen of shields.
At the advanced level, you get two medium slots. Now that's where the suit really starts to shine. You get the same tank as the standard level suit, but now you can fit TWO damage mods. I put on two 5% damage mods and its almost EZ mode. 1v1 no one can take me out.
Seriously, it takes a squad of 2-4 people coordinating together to take me down.
At the prototype level, this advantage is only amplified by the fact that you get more tank and more gank, and more CPU/PG.
So whatever fix armor tanking needs, it is only needed at the low end. At the medium and high end, the suit is very competitive, and the damage is well worth the heavy loss in regeneration.
My suggestion is to remove a low slot and put on a medium slot on the basic gallente suit. (Same layout as Caldari standard medium) Maybe add a little more CPU/PG because damage mods are MUCH MORE CPU/PG intensive than armor mods, and I already have problems fitting stuff even with max CPU/PG skills. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you have your own suggestions for the standard Gallente medium suit go ahead. |
J Falcs
Bojo's School of the Trades
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Same happens with logistics suits. Different races seem more competitive at their respective STD, ADV, and proto levels. Gallente STD logistics suit has a 0/2/3 layout . |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
116
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree Heavy suck at high end
Sentinel even more, Same everything than the basic AK.0, but trade 1 high for 1 more low( making it 1H/4L. No more CPU or PG, nada. and a few more SP to invest...for a 2% in reload speed and feedback damage reduction nonsense(for now).
Getting bored of only having 1 race to choose from. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
martinofski wrote:I agree Heavy suck at high end
Sentinel even more, Same everything than the basic AK.0, but trade 1 high for 1 more low( making it 1H/4L. No more CPU or PG, nada. and a few more SP to invest...for a 2% in reload speed and feedback damage reduction nonsense(for now).
Getting bored of only having 1 race to choose from. This thread really isn't about the heavy. It has been discussed to death and all we have to do now is to wait for CCP.
I just want to discuss my discovery of how effective the Gallente medium is at the high end. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
598
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Your suggestion is, essentially, make the basic Gallente suit have the same slot layout as the standard Caldari one, with similar CPU and PG?
Right. You also say that the Gallente proto is nigh impossible to take down 1v1, i.e. "it's OP". Your suggestion makes the whole race's assault suit better than the others. There would be no point to any of the other races, apart from the racial bonuses, which would be negated by the extra damage mods on the suits. Not to mention that the AR is the Gallente racial weapon, giving the Gallente the most OP weapon currently in game, the TAR.
Tbh, if you have to suffer a week of "bad" game in a low-end Gallente suit before getting into the standard one, then buck up. |
Kaios Reborn
Neanderthal Nation
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
martinofski wrote:I agree Heavy suck at high end
Sentinel even more, Same everything than the basic AK.0, but trade 1 high for 1 more low( making it 1H/4L. No more CPU or PG, nada. and a few more SP to invest...for a 2% in reload speed and feedback damage reduction nonsense(for now).
Getting bored of only having 1 race to choose from.
yup i agree 100% there is no resion that they dont have more than 1 race of heavy. they really need to hurry up and fix this ... we are getting SP reset but the race i want to play isnt evin there yet witch forces me once again to put SP where i dont whant it. i hope they understand that when they dring in the other race heavys that ALL heavys in the game are going to want all that SP they sunk into amarr heavys back AGAIN.
|
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Your suggestion is, essentially, make the basic Gallente suit have the same slot layout as the standard Caldari one, with similar CPU and PG?
Right. You also say that the Gallente proto is nigh impossible to take down 1v1, i.e. "it's OP". Your suggestion makes the whole race's assault suit better than the others. There would be no point to any of the other races, apart from the racial bonuses, which would be negated by the extra damage mods on the suits. Not to mention that the AR is the Gallente racial weapon, giving the Gallente the most OP weapon currently in game, the TAR.
Tbh, if you have to suffer a week of "bad" game in a low-end Gallente suit before getting into the standard one, then buck up. As for the basic suit, yes. Caldari get free and fast regeneration and have to choose between tank and gank.
The Gallente proto isn't OP, its right in line with the other suits. Gallente is slower, and regen's much, much slower.
So in a sustained battle, as in 1 v multiple people, I have a disadvantage against a caldari suit which can regenerate faster. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
598
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Caldari have to choose between tank or gank, yes. The Gallente don't. Armor in the lows, damage in the highs. The sole drawback to this (apart from speed) is the slower armor rep rate, which is constant, unlike the Caldari's. The Caldari have a space of time after taking damage through which they have to wait before the shield regen starts.
Edit: Meh, that post was a mess, edited it to keep it coherent. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Laheon wrote:The Caldari have to choose between tank or gank, yes. The Gallente don't. Armor in the lows, damage in the highs. The sole drawback to this (apart from speed) is the slower armor rep rate, which is constant, unlike the Caldari's. The Caldari have a space of time after taking damage through which they have to wait before the shield regen starts.
Edit: Meh, that post was a mess, edited it to keep it coherent. With my fit I have 6hp/s. The Caldari BASE 25hp/s beats it even with the delay. One recharger and they're at 34hp/s+. Which BTW, doesn't reset from multiple hits, only the first hit starts the delay. The Caldari also can fit speed mods without having less tank. |
|
Rynoceros
One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed.
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Damage mods? I run shield extenders and a recharger on the high side. On my lows I run armor plates and kinetic catalyzers. I went Damage mod crazy last build, wasn't too versatile, and militia shottys still OHK 80% of the oppositoon. The setup I have now almost tripled my overall HP w/ 4% faster sprints - and I'm not even into the proto mods yet. With the respec I may go into basic cK.0 suits for more shieldy stuff. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Note that armor has a very big disadvantage. If you manage to chip away at my armor, or even heavily bruise it, I'm out of the battle for a LONG time. To fully recharge, I need 73 seconds. That's more than 15th of a Ambush match.
So while true that I have both the tank and the gank, if I get damaged Caldari got the clear advantage. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote: With my fit I have 6hp/s. The Caldari BASE 25hp/s beats it even with the delay. One recharger and they're at 34hp/s+. Which BTW, doesn't reset from multiple hits, only the first hit starts the delay. The Caldari also can fit speed mods without having less tank.
Yes. But with three 5% damage mods, a Gallente suit will do 12% more damage against a Caldari suit than a Caldari suit can do to it (assuming same weapon and skills). The AR does 110% damage to shields, which make up more of the Caldari HP, meaning it loses the majority of its HP quicker then armor, which an AR is only 90% effective against.
If you do the math, a Caldari suit always dies quickly to a Gallente suit. Nowhere near enough time for the recharge rate to kick in. |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think what can be done to make lower level gall assaults better (sorry medium frames just gotta stay as they are) would be to give them better bonuses than they get right now. Assault bonus 10% more shield regen: Gallente is bloddy armor tanking worst possible bonus for them. Gallente assault dropsuit bonus 5% less CPU/PG per level to hybrid weapons: ok look at the amarr proto assault it has what 350 CPU and 70 PG if i'm right and gall proto got 200 CPU and 60 PG ?? So if a gall proto fits a duvolle tac it costs what 90 CPU and 13 PG Ok 25% of those are 22,5 CPU and 3,25 PG. So basically the gall proto never ever gets up to anywhere near the same amount of CPU/PG of the amarr assault making the bonus really really stupid. Remake bonuses CCP. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Kitten Empress wrote: With my fit I have 6hp/s. The Caldari BASE 25hp/s beats it even with the delay. One recharger and they're at 34hp/s+. Which BTW, doesn't reset from multiple hits, only the first hit starts the delay. The Caldari also can fit speed mods without having less tank.
Yes. But with three 5% damage mods, a Gallente suit will do 12% more damage against a Caldari suit than a Caldari suit can do to it (assuming same weapon and skills). The AR does 110% damage to shields, which make up more of the Caldari HP, meaning it loses the majority of its HP quicker then armor, which an AR is only 90% effective against. If you do the math, a Caldari suit always dies quickly to a Gallente suit. Nowhere near enough time for the recharge rate to kick in. Then again, Caldari move quicker as all the plates slow you down. Also, remember that we don't have all the weapons yet. Caldari weapons will do 100/100, and Minmatar weapons will do 90/110. So minie weapons are the counter to armor. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote: Then again, Caldari move quicker as all the plates slow you down. Also, remember that we don't have all the weapons yet. Caldari weapons will do 100/100, and Minmatar weapons will do 90/110. So minie weapons are the counter to armor.
Until they come out, you can't say for certain. That's a simple fact. And, afaik, your movement speed doesn't affect your turning speed, which matters a fair bit more in a fight. You can still track the Caldari suit, so you can still kill it.
The only downsides to the lower speed are that you a, can't get to the battlefield quickly on foot, and b, if you over-extend (i.e. get caught surrounded by red dots) you can't get back into cover quickly. For the first you have LAV's, and for the second, well, your own fault for over-extending. And lone-wolfing. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Kitten Empress wrote: Then again, Caldari move quicker as all the plates slow you down. Also, remember that we don't have all the weapons yet. Caldari weapons will do 100/100, and Minmatar weapons will do 90/110. So minie weapons are the counter to armor.
Until they come out, you can't say for certain. That's a simple fact. And, afaik, your movement speed doesn't affect your turning speed, which matters a fair bit more in a fight. You can still track the Caldari suit, so you can still kill it. The only downsides to the lower speed are that you a, can't get to the battlefield quickly on foot, and b, if you over-extend (i.e. get caught surrounded by red dots) you can't get back into cover quickly. For the first you have LAV's, and for the second, well, your own fault for over-extending. And lone-wolfing. So Caldari move quicker and regen quicker (Its still very fast, 73 seconds with armor is very long). Hit and run attacks, simple. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
601
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:So Caldari move quicker and regen quicker (Its still very fast, 73 seconds with armor is very long). Hit and run attacks, simple.
You say hit and run attacks are simple, but they rarely are. A hit and run implies the ability to pop out of nowhere, shoot a couple of guys, then pop back into "nowhere". Unfortunately, the Caldari assault suit isn't as fast as you're trying to imply, and in reality, the Gallente will be able to spot the Caldari and kill him before the Caldari manages to get away. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t Orion Empire
568
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 17:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Laheon wrote:The Caldari have to choose between tank or gank, yes. The Gallente don't. Armor in the lows, damage in the highs. The sole drawback to this (apart from speed) is the slower armor rep rate, which is constant, unlike the Caldari's. The Caldari have a space of time after taking damage through which they have to wait before the shield regen starts.
Edit: Meh, that post was a mess, edited it to keep it coherent. With my fit I have 6hp/s. The Caldari BASE 25hp/s beats it even with the delay. One recharger and they're at 34hp/s+. Which BTW, doesn't reset from multiple hits, only the first hit starts the delay. The Caldari also can fit speed mods without having less tank.
I didn't realise the delay starts from the first hit - that's just dumb; surely it should be from the last hit?
I run gallente medium level 1 and even if you had an extra high slot, you wouldn't be able to fit 2 damage mods because you don't have the CPU/PG for it - even running dual sidearms I can't fit 1 if I want an armor repper and plate.
The low slots are great for armor tanking and I do plenty well with this set up: Basic Gallente G/1 (lvl 1) STD Scrambler Pistol ADV SMG MLT Locus Grenade STD Armor Plate STD Armor Repper STD Armor Repper STD Shield Extender STD Nanite Injector
Or if I want some extra dps Basic Gallente G/1 (lvl 1) Wolfman Scrambler Pistol ADV SMG MLT Locus Grenade STD Armor Plate STD Armor Plate STD Armor Repper |
Chris F2112
187. Unclaimed.
179
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 17:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
I actually have the least problem with Gallente players that I do of anyone. I think because they armor tank my proto locus grenades almost always instantly kill them, regardless of level. |
|
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 17:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
martinofski wrote:I agree Heavy suck at high end
Sentinel even more, Same everything than the basic AK.0, but trade 1 high for 1 more low( making it 1H/4L. No more CPU or PG, nada. and a few more SP to invest...for a 2% in reload speed and feedback damage reduction nonsense(for now).
Getting bored of only having 1 race to choose from.
Get behind this:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80617&find=unread |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 18:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Note that armor has a very big disadvantage. If you manage to chip away at my armor, or even heavily bruise it, I'm out of the battle for a LONG time. To fully recharge, I need 73 seconds. That's more than 15th of a Ambush match.
So while true that I have both the tank and the gank, if I get damaged Caldari got the clear advantage.
You need to team up with a logibro. The Caldari can solo well because they have the great recharge time. Everyone else with armor needs us, heck even the caldari do if they don't die by going into it. A repair too will have you good to go in 5 seconds as opposed to your 73. Dont get me wrong, its awesome to be a lone wolf and be able to handle yourself, but see the value in having a team too.
No suit is the end all to every situation. While it may be strong in some areas it must be weaker in others. You, playing to your strength have opted for armor. I would suggest some repping nanohives for your equipment as well. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 18:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Kitten Empress wrote:Note that armor has a very big disadvantage. If you manage to chip away at my armor, or even heavily bruise it, I'm out of the battle for a LONG time. To fully recharge, I need 73 seconds. That's more than 15th of a Ambush match.
So while true that I have both the tank and the gank, if I get damaged Caldari got the clear advantage. You need to team up with a logibro. The Caldari can solo well because they have the great recharge time. Everyone else with armor needs us, heck even the caldari do if they don't die by going into it. A repair too will have you good to go in 5 seconds as opposed to your 73. Dont get me wrong, its awesome to be a lone wolf and be able to handle yourself, but see the value in having a team too. No suit is the end all to every situation. While it may be strong in some areas it must be weaker in others. You, playing to your strength have opted for armor. I would suggest some repping nanohives for your equipment as well. I would gladly put on repping nanohives if I had the CPU/PG to spare. Also, I do go with logi bro's, however its frustrating to watch blueberry logi bro's who I know have repair tools but don't pull it out because I can't communicate and tell them I need it. There should be an indicator just like the revive one. |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
251
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:I would gladly put on repping nanohives if I had the CPU/PG to spare. Also, I do go with logi bro's, however its frustrating to watch blueberry logi bro's who I know have repair tools but don't pull it out because I can't communicate and tell them I need it. There should be an indicator just like the revive one.
Good call, the CPU/PG limitation is kinda suck right now. and that voluntary indicator is a good idea.
If you know a blueberry logi that needs some help please send them here:"The Logi Code. Updated for Uprising" |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |