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Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
129
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Put new tab "Employment history" on "SHOW INFO" window for a character. Also make that window bigger to accommodate for this information.
If a player is removed from corp there should be comment box to fill in by CEO/Director for everybody to see in employment history. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
410
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is actually something I don't want and I explain why in the 6th post
Metagame |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
129
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 11:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:This is actually something I don't want and I explain why in the 6th post Metagame So you want an easy ride, yes? I am ok with some dirty little secrets you want to keep. But it is strange you want to keep others from telling them out loud.
If you can't keep your secrets yourself and get catched red handed you deserve to be ratted on |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
411
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 12:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:Daedric Lothar wrote:This is actually something I don't want and I explain why in the 6th post Metagame So you want an easy ride, yes? I am ok with some dirty little secrets you want to keep. But it is strange you want to keep others from telling them out loud. If you can't keep your secrets yourself and get catched red handed you deserve to be ratted on
Hehe, well the point in that other post was that you could be sold out by the corp that paid you. That they knew who you were. It was the tipping point.
With EVE pilots and large ships and interstellar travel there will be a large paper trail behind your every action. As a lone mercenary who roams from battle to battle and body to body there is liable to be very large holes in your history. From a Lore perspective it makes more sense for a Dust merc to not have a traceable history.
However, it looks my like betrayal thread is a bust, so I will change my posistion and support this thread. Corp history will indeed help track players and help corps make better choices. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
154
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
This must be introduced for corps' security reasons... |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
185
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Posted - 2013.05.27 22:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you didn't know already, you can look up a Merc's employment history...in EVE.
Yes, I do check people's out a if I suspect them of corp-hopping...and its very easy to see those who do.
As for the comment box...IDK. Too much room for baseless abuse.
EDIT: For example; Robert JD Niewiadomski has been in the Edimmu Warfighters and NULLIMPEX INC, and Daedric Lothar has been in the Tal-Romon Legion and Onslaught Inc.
Not that hard... |
TcuBe3
THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo
2
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Posted - 2013.05.28 01:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't see this as an issue, why not judge each player individually based off of merit not their employment history. If you're looking for a dream team of perfect players I'm afraid your not going to find as many players as you think. Also, each corp has a different culture and that culture may not fit each persons personality. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
154
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 10:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:If you didn't know already, you can look up a Merc's employment history...in EVE.
Yes, I do check people's out a if I suspect them of corp-hopping...and its very easy to see those who do.
As for the comment box...IDK. Too much room for baseless abuse.
EDIT: For example; Robert JD Niewiadomski has been in the Edimmu Warfighters and NULLIMPEX INC, and Daedric Lothar has been in the Tal-Romon Legion and Onslaught Inc.
Not that hard... Ok, point taken And what about DUSTies without EVE account? It's subscription based you know... Ok, you can create trial acount after trial account. Just to check the employment history? And there is no eveboard.com detail level available on dustboard.com.
TcuBe3 wrote:I don't see this as an issue, why not judge each player individually based off of merit not their employment history. If you're looking for a dream team of perfect players I'm afraid your not going to find as many players as you think. Also, each corp has a different culture and that culture may not fit each persons personality. Merit based on what? Only info available on ALL players is their PSN ID or "Unknown player". Leaderboards show top 1000 only. If you don't make it to the leaderboards then you are not worthy?
This employment history is vital part of corp recruitement imho. Should be easy to access from within DUST client. |
TcuBe3
THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 13:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Based off of how they perform, why do you care what corps people have been in? Kinda seems like you're being an elitist. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
155
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 13:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Based off of how they perform, why do you care what corps people have been in? Kinda seems like you're being an elitist. If you see someone was kicked out of kickass corp (need an exact definition for this ) you should think twice before accepting her/him into yours or at least keep an eye on her/him if you are mercifull merc keen on giving n-th chance to people |
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TcuBe3
THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo
4
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Posted - 2013.05.28 13:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:TcuBe3 wrote:Based off of how they perform, why do you care what corps people have been in? Kinda seems like you're being an elitist. If you see someone was kicked out of kickass corp (need an exact definition for this ) you should think twice before accepting her/him into yours or at least keep an eye on her/him if you are mercifull merc keen on giving n-th chance to people
Cmon man, you can tell when a guy gets on voice chat whether or not he is a **** bag. Eventually d bags will always show their true colors in game. I have been involved in clans, corps guilds and communities over the past 10 years and they all have a different feel and culture. Some people just don't gel with each other. Just because some one has a bad attitude in one Corp doesn't mean they will in another, sometimes people need a fresh start. This mentality could be used in the real world as well. I don't think you can really judge someone's worth based off of whether or not he or she was kicked out of a "kick ass Corp".I tend to judge people on a case by case basis and avoid making judgements on people based off their reputation. You may be denying a good player the chance to participate in your Corp because of a disagreement betwee |
Phoenix Archer 128
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
187
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 00:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are very valid reasons for a Director or CEO to be looking at corp history before accepting someone.
Just because you don't think its a needed thing, or that it shouldn't be considered, doesn't mean others think the same way.
The option should be there, and almost certainly will be eventually, but for now go bug a pilot lol |
TcuBe3
THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:There are very valid reasons for a Director or CEO to be looking at corp history before accepting someone.
Just because you don't think its a needed thing, or that it shouldn't be considered, doesn't mean others think the same way.
The option should be there, and almost certainly will be eventually, but for now go bug a pilot lol
I agree the options should be there for corp leaders and their associates. My argument is more about judging someone based off of their employment history rather than their performance. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:There are very valid reasons for a Director or CEO to be looking at corp history before accepting someone.
Just because you don't think its a needed thing, or that it shouldn't be considered, doesn't mean others think the same way.
The option should be there, and almost certainly will be eventually, but for now go bug a pilot lol I agree the options should be there for corp leaders and their associates. My argument is more about judging someone based off of their employment history rather than their performance. Would you trust someone that's from the goons? Would you trust someone that's one year old and has 20+ corps in his history? What if he just left the corp you're at war with?
Corp history is essential and is the first step in any background check prior to accepting an application, and for good reason. Following the corp history check a full API check is done to look at assets (what's with that pile of t2 BPOs that corp X was supposed to have a monopoly on?) and see where your money is coming from (funding an alt with a main; not an issue in Dust now, but it's coming eventually once the economies are fully linked, which is the intended end result; separation now is solely to mitigate negative influences of the two games on each other by linking them slowly and carefully.)
And yes, it's a guarantee that we'll get it eventually in Dust. In the meantime you can view it from EVE (and free trials are easy to get if you can't be asked to find a capsuleer to check for you.)
Remember that the chat systems between games are fully linked. Open the chat window and go to the bottom tab, "create/join" and type in "dust514". This is the main dust channel in eve and generally has 50+ people in it, with two or three active (minimum), usually from their eve accounts.
Remember too that these background checks are THE first line in preventing AWOXing. If people were properly screening their recruits instead accepting any random asshat from local, they wouldn't be getting AWOXd so often or so easily. |
TcuBe3
THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Not sure what AWOXING is
Well from my experience I typically treat new people like I would any other player with an exception. That exception would be a probationary period where players are evaluated. Maturity, judgement and attitude. If your worried about spies, or former enemies just sit them on the bench furring PC battles. I'm curious are you a CEO? And how do you run your corp as an example? I am not a CEO and new to DUST so I'm curious how you conduct recruiting and employment. I'd also like to add recruiting off any local channel is probably not the best idea. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Not sure what AWOXING is
Well from my experience I typically treat new people like I would any other player with an exception. That exception would be a probationary period where players are evaluated. Maturity, judgement and attitude. If your worried about spies, or former enemies just sit them on the bench furring PC battles. I'm curious are you a CEO? And how do you run your corp as an example? I am not a CEO and new to DUST so I'm curious how you conduct recruiting and employment. I'd also like to add recruiting off any local channel is probably not the best idea. At the moment, no, though I've been in leadership roles throughout my nearly 9 years in EVE. The peak was being a director in an alliance numbering ~700 members (in some ways I was in charge, due to my influence, but I made an active point of not being officially in charge, but rather acting as security head and advisor to the less-experienced, less-paranoid "official" leadership).
I approach recruiting intitially like I do in ALL games, regardless of how hardcore they are, be it PlanetSide where Soul Strike originally started, FFXI, EVE, or anything else. I do not actively recruit, let alone advertise, EVER. What I do is I make things open for non-members to join in and play, socialize. If they seem chill and compatible with the personalities and mindset of the group, and they seem to have a good head for what we're looking for (team spirit, the ability to follow orders when it's needed, and the willingness and ability to learn and admit when they're wrong -- and have the courage to speak up, at the appropriate time and not in the middle of a fight, if they think leadership is wrong or has a bad plan or they have a better; our motto is "Promoting good friends and good gaming"), I see if they're interested in joining.
This is a good first step in recruiting with ANY game, if only to keep the garbage out (sure you can kick them later, but how many GOOD members will get up and quit before you do?). In a game of consequence, like EVE and Dust (and even PlanetSide, to a lesser extent), you need to take further steps such as checking corp history, and once they open the CREST API checking their assets and transactions.
As to AWOXing, the short explanation is it's a friendly that's actively helping the enemy and sabotaging your team. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
103
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
eve characters can check employment history. you just need an eve account. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
low genius wrote:eve characters can check employment history. you just need an eve account. A lot of us know that, as well as that its coming to Dust being an inevitability. I don't think it unreasonable to raise priority, though, if only to further neuter the perceived (though nonexistent) merit of the AWOX whinging. We're busy fighting against the Call of Halo kids trying to ruin Dust (or make it worse, depending on your opinion of the current state), so anything that should be there anyway and helps weaken their already weak (but LOUD!) whinging can't be a bad thing to call attention to and try to get sooner rather than later.
For all of Dusts issues right now, the greatest threat I'm seeing is failtards asking to break things that aren't broken and bring this closer to the WoW of FPS games, e.g. CoD and Halo.
EDIT: For those not clear on reality, WoW/CoD/Halo are the last thing you want to emulate if your goal is quality. |
Somin Krais
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think this is a symptom of something else that people/corps will want: Dust API keys. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
501
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:low genius wrote:eve characters can check employment history. you just need an eve account. A lot of us know that, as well as that its coming to Dust being an inevitability. I don't think it unreasonable to raise priority .
Blah, you can pay for stuff in Dust already. They have the elite pack for $99. I see a $17.99 EVE account as being just another P2W strategy you can employ. Cough it up cheapskate. |
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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:low genius wrote:eve characters can check employment history. you just need an eve account. A lot of us know that, as well as that its coming to Dust being an inevitability. I don't think it unreasonable to raise priority . Blah, you can pay for stuff in Dust already. They have the elite pack for $99. I see a $17.99 EVE account as being just another P2W strategy you can employ. Cough it up cheapskate. I have four paid EVE accounts, what the **** are you smoking? Lol
Main: Spork Witch Industry alt: Contessa Phedre
And two additional alts who shall remain nameless for security reasons. Those are just the accounts, by the way, not the secondary characters on those accounts.
So, now that we've established your lack-of-point as completely inane, let's get back to allowing the Dust-only players that can't figure out how to talk to EVE players to see corp history, thus decimaring yet another of their meritless excuses for eliminating meta entirely and turning this into Call of Halo with added Carebear sauce.
EDIT: And those packs are not pay to win. They're equivalent ot standard-level gear. Suck less. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Somin Krais wrote:I think this is a symptom of something else that people/corps will want: Dust API keys. They're coming. The CREST API works for both Dust and EVE. It's also the basis for how the Vita app will function. Most are assuming that public access to CREST will be granted around the launch of the Vita app or shortly before. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
501
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:So, now that we've established your lack-of-point as completely inane, let's get back to allowing the Dust-only players that can't figure out how to talk to EVE players to see corp history, thus decimaring yet another of their meritless excuses for eliminating meta entirely and turning this into Call of Halo with added Carebear sauce.
EDIT: And those packs are not pay to win. They're equivalent ot standard-level gear. Suck less.
Whatever dude, it takes me like 4 minutes to make a new Dust account that your API can't check and you can't employment history. Then I can just AFK in the MCC to get enough stats for a Basic Protosuit and then do whatever I feel like.
This is like DRM, you are going to put all sorts of rules and regulations on stuff to try and protect people, but it isn't going to work. It is just going to screw up the people who really are playing while the real pirates just laugh their asses off that there is nothing you can do to stop them.
And if you make it that you can only have 1 account per playstation, so what, I actually have a couple sitting around. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:So, now that we've established your lack-of-point as completely inane, let's get back to allowing the Dust-only players that can't figure out how to talk to EVE players to see corp history, thus decimaring yet another of their meritless excuses for eliminating meta entirely and turning this into Call of Halo with added Carebear sauce.
EDIT: And those packs are not pay to win. They're equivalent ot standard-level gear. Suck less. Whatever dude, it takes me like 4 minutes to make a new Dust account that your API can't check and you can't employment history. Then I can just AFK in the MCC to get enough stats for a Basic Protosuit and then do whatever I feel like. This is like DRM, you are going to put all sorts of rules and regulations on stuff to try and protect people, but it isn't going to work. It is just going to screw up the people who really are playing while the real pirates just laugh their asses off that there is nothing you can do to stop them. And if you make it that you can only have 1 account per playstation, so what, I actually have a couple sitting around. And why is this corp accepting the nobody with no corp history, no SP, etc., and then letting him in on the corp fights on top of it?
Your points have no merit and are easily defeated by even minimal application screening.
Sorry your attempt to whinge and tell me to just subscribe to eve backfired (free trials and disposable emails are easy there too, to run your checks) since I've been playing it for nearly a decade with multiple accounts (not just one), but your new attack is just as meritless as the first.
EDIT: This is nothing like DRM (which IS worthless). You seem to be under the impression this **** is new to anyone from EVE or even PlanetSide. We have a decade of experence with this ****, and it's much harder to AWOX in dust, and much harder to catch them, than in EVE. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
501
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote: And why is this corp accepting the nobody with no corp history, no SP, etc., and then letting him in on the corp fights on top of it?
HA.. KK bro, its not like its that hard to get a couple mill SP to get into a corp battle. Though luckily enough, I'm to lazy and honestly just don't care enough to take the time to join your corp as one of my alts to AWOX you.
OR am I? |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: And why is this corp accepting the nobody with no corp history, no SP, etc., and then letting him in on the corp fights on top of it? HA.. KK bro, its not like its that hard to get a couple mill SP to get into a corp battle. Though luckily enough, I'm to lazy and honestly just don't care enough to take the time to join your corp as one of my alts to AWOX you. OR am I? Again, we see the same in EVE, and have for a decade now. Why are they accepting the nobody with no history and no screening?
I get that you're a Call of Halo kid, so these are foreign concepts to you, but basic screening techniques and standards will catch what you're describing almost every time, even without corp history and API access (though it's helpful to have).
What you're talking about only works against noob corps often enough to matter. So sure, it works against some, but in the grand scheme, and against the corps with a clue, what you're talking about doing broadcasts all the red flags for "****** spai that sucks at his job." I've known great spies, and what you're talking about isn't it. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
501
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote: I get that you're a Call of Halo kid, so these are foreign concepts to you, but basic screening techniques and standards will catch what you're describing almost every time, even without corp history and API access (though it's helpful to have).
Man, you are really making me want to reconsider my stance on just not caring enough to try it. I love challenges, especially because I can be a really friendly and helpful guy when I wanna be and you have no idea what I sound like.
Better triple check all your screenings that you get for the next couple months. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: I get that you're a Call of Halo kid, so these are foreign concepts to you, but basic screening techniques and standards will catch what you're describing almost every time, even without corp history and API access (though it's helpful to have).
Man, you are really making me want to reconsider my stance on just not caring enough to try it. I love challenges, especially because I can be a really friendly and helpful guy when I wanna be and you have no idea what I sound like. Better triple check all your screenings that you get for the next couple months. Do it! It's legitimate gameplay! Seriously.
All we're talking about here is providing the basic tools for basic screening. A skilled spy can still get in and cause damage, if he's good and works at it. What we're talking about are the basic tools that mitigate just how easy it is right now. Most of the whinging is from two camps: the carebears that want complete immunity, and those that simply don't screen or find it too much work. You can't help the failtards that want it removed entirely, but they'll eventually quit anyway and we'll be better off for it (a common truism in EVE is that every time WoW player quits eve to go back to WoW, the average IQ of both games improved; gotta love math humor ). For the others, offering more of the basic tools diminishes their already-meritless arguments, by making it easier to screen for obvious spais, and thus placing the blame more solidly on their own laziness and poor recruiting standards and practices. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
501
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote: Do it! It's legitimate gameplay! Seriously. All we're talking about here is providing the basic tools for basic screening. A skilled spy can still get in and cause damage, if he's good and works at it. What we're talking about are the basic tools that mitigate just how easy it is right now. Most of the whinging is from two camps: the carebears that want complete immunity, and those that simply don't screen or find it too much work. You can't help the failtards that want it removed entirely, but they'll eventually quit anyway and we'll be better off for it (a common truism in EVE is that every time WoW player quits eve to go back to WoW, the average IQ of both games improved; gotta love math humor ). For the others, offering more of the basic tools diminishes their already-meritless arguments, by making it easier to screen for obvious spais, and thus placing the blame more solidly on their own laziness and poor recruiting standards and practices.
I don't think its nessecary, I like the dual corp thing that most people are doing nowadays. Its easy, its efficient and it works. Plus in Dust there isn't much you can do. I mean I EVE you can join a mining corp, wait for a run, kill everyone, take all the loot and kill their rorqual (If you get a little lucky) and make off with Fat loot and alot of minerals and then when they ship up to kill you. Since you can't be ejected from the corp till you have a change state you can just murder them and loot all their T2 stuff from their combat ships. Billions of ISK in damages
And if you are a good spy, well you can do ALOT more damage, like telling where mining opps are going, pointing out blue fleets just using the map while you run plexes. Blocking off trade routes. All sorts of fun stuff. The damage could be in the tens of billions over a few months. And thats if you can't get a good corp theft going.
In Dust, you can shoot guys for a couple times and cause them to "maybe" lose a district they will get back tomorrow anyways. Maybe you can get a corp theft, but only the cheap Dust wallet.
Well anyways, Good luck to you, have a good life. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Geirskoegul wrote: Do it! It's legitimate gameplay! Seriously. All we're talking about here is providing the basic tools for basic screening. A skilled spy can still get in and cause damage, if he's good and works at it. What we're talking about are the basic tools that mitigate just how easy it is right now. Most of the whinging is from two camps: the carebears that want complete immunity, and those that simply don't screen or find it too much work. You can't help the failtards that want it removed entirely, but they'll eventually quit anyway and we'll be better off for it (a common truism in EVE is that every time WoW player quits eve to go back to WoW, the average IQ of both games improved; gotta love math humor ). For the others, offering more of the basic tools diminishes their already-meritless arguments, by making it easier to screen for obvious spais, and thus placing the blame more solidly on their own laziness and poor recruiting standards and practices. I don't think its nessecary, I like the dual corp thing that most people are doing nowadays. Its easy, its efficient and it works. Plus in Dust there isn't much you can do. I mean I EVE you can join a mining corp, wait for a run, kill everyone, take all the loot and kill their rorqual (If you get a little lucky) and make off with Fat loot and alot of minerals and then when they ship up to kill you. Since you can't be ejected from the corp till you have a change state you can just murder them and loot all their T2 stuff from their combat ships. Billions of ISK in damages And if you are a good spy, well you can do ALOT more damage, like telling where mining opps are going, pointing out blue fleets just using the map while you run plexes. Blocking off trade routes. All sorts of fun stuff. The damage could be in the tens of billions over a few months. And thats if you can't get a good corp theft going. In Dust, you can shoot guys for a couple times and cause them to "maybe" lose a district they will get back tomorrow anyways. Maybe you can get a corp theft, but only the cheap Dust wallet. Well anyways, Good luck to you, have a good life. Bit harder than you make out for EVE (what you described as the easy side any neut can do.)
That said, you clearly have at least some concept of how things work, so how can you actually argue against speeding up the addition of corp history on the dust side?
Honestly, thanks to this last post of yours, you remind me of my sister: arguing for the sole sake of argument itself. You know there's no real or legitimate reason to argue against the OP, you're just arguing to do it, the very definition of trolling.
I guess I should just say kudos to you for displaying the fact that we should disregard everything you've said in this thread, since it's pure trolling. |
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