DUST Search - A/V Genades

Psychotic Shooter wrote:

Fighter4all wrote:

A/V is to strong and I'll tell you why.
Let's just say in that Swarm launchers are 100% Balanced. One thing the swarm launcher has is a charge up time or a Lock on time a time before it shoots which is about 2 seconds, then it has a time before it can lock on and shoot again which is about 4 seconds, then it has a reload time of about 6 seconds and in all it would take about. 4 lock ons 2 Time in between shots and 1 reload to shot 4 shots.
Time to shoot 4 swarms
(2X4) + (4X2) + (6X1)= 24 Second (this isn't accurate but it's an estimate)

Now AV nades have no charge up time, do roughly the same damage as swarms, no wait time in between shots, time to get another grenade to throw 2 seconds.
Time to throw 4 A/V grenades
4X2=8 seconds

Now the perk of Swarms Long distance.

Perks of A/V thrown fairly far for a granade.
Thrown around corners/ Over walls
Virtually inexhaustible when you have a nano hive
Fast fire rate
High Damage per second
Granade slot so you can run a light weapon
stays on the ground for 5 second until ran over
So much more but i'm sure you've seen enough to know there's a problem with them.

then what is even the point of that button you press on top for the arming action? seriously, i know people want to balance everything...but come on, if you're having AV issues, stick with your infantry support

CCP to Balance this weapon you should put a 3 sec Arming timer on so yes you can throw grenade over and over again but you should have to arm it so it take longer so you can fire at the same speed of forge and swarms

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Fighter4all Not Guilty EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.05.21 02:41:00 - [1] - Quote A/V is to strong and I'll tell you why. Let's just say in that Swarm launchers are 100% Balanced. One thing the swarm launcher has is a chard up time or a Lock on time a time before it shoots which is about 2 seconds, then it has a time before it can lock on and shoot again which is about 4 seconds, then it has a reload time of about 6 seconds and in all it would take about. 4 lock ons 2 Time in between shots and 1 reload to shot 4 shots. Time to shoot 4 swarms (2X4) + (4X2) + (6X1)= 24 Second (this isn't accurate but it's an estimate) Now AV nades have no charge up time, do roughly the same damage as swarms, no wait time in between shots, time to get another grenade to throw 2 seconds. Time to throw 4 A/V grenades 4X2=8 seconds Now the perk of Swarms Long distance. Perks of A/V thrown fairly far for a granade. Thrown around corners/ Over walls Virtually inexhaustible when you have a nano hive Fast fire rate High Damage per second Granade slot so you can run a light weapon stays on the ground for 5 second until ran over So much more but i'm sure you've seen enough to know there's a problem with them.
CharCharOdell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 154	Posted - 2013.05.21 04:19:00 - [2] - Quote Forges and Swarms are OK, but AV nades need a huge nerf.
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 10	Posted - 2013.05.21 04:35:00 - [3] - Quote I honestly dont get hit by enough AV grenades to give any anecdotal evidence of their effectiveness, be they UP or OP...
Helper Friendly Planetary Response Organization 14	Posted - 2013.05.21 05:48:00 - [4] - Quote Even though you can throw an av nade pretty far (lock on has been nerfed so....) you have to get pretty close. Its not like I sit on the other side of the map with a swarm launcher, forge and kill you....... Grenade = Hand thrown device = my hand does not need a reload time, charge time, etc. It is designed to be thrown and forgot ( not operated or precise like a swarm or forge). Tankers should get out and run around the map and fight a bit. Tried throwing a grenade lately? 9/10 times I go to throw a grenade I have to tap the L2 button more than once for it to even work. Its really not as easy as you guys think it is for infantry to kill a WELL built tank. Ok fair trade: CCP nerff my AV nades (designed to kill vehicles) then you must give up your one shot kill blasters (designed to kill infantry). 8/10 times I run toward a tank to throw my expensive AV grenades at it I get killed by said one shot blaster. So you guys are killing way more infantry toting av naders than we are tanks or else you would be broke and not spawning them into battle anymore. I agree militia av nades shouldn't do as much damage however you cant touch my advanced nades that cost sp and money to get. Your tank cost SP and money I understand that, but so does all the suits, equipment, etc you guys destroy with your 12.0 KDR's and one shot blasters.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries 148	Posted - 2013.05.21 07:12:00 - [5] - Quote AV grenades need a buff proto grenades dont even blow up free lavs anymore (thoguh this coudl be due to the terrible hit detection so lavs drive past the grenade)
Asmadai HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 87	Posted - 2013.05.21 07:48:00 - [6] - Quote Just a thought, but what if AV grenades did substantially less damage BUT in exchange created a reduction in the vehicles speed and say turret turn speed? So AV nades go from killers to disablers? Armour reps could repair the damage either from the tank itself or from the equipment. Could at least make the high damage ones requiring a high skill level investment.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2013.05.21 10:56:00 - [7] - Quote Stop calling for nerfs, please!
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 285	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:32:00 - [8] - Quote AV damage literally needs to be halved, a proto grenade should not be doing 2-3 times the damage of a proto AV weapon. 4k for a Lai Dai packed grenade is far too much damage. Oh you have to get close you all say? ever tried hitting a dropsuit thats strafing and ducking into cover with a tank? Oh I can move back and out run them? Thats still a problem that ONE man with proto AV nades can force a tank on full HP to retreat.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:35:00 - [9] - Quote i don't call for nerfs, the AV grenades shouldn't be in the game.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. League of Infamy 362	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:38:00 - [10] - Quote Stop yer belly aching. Tanks are not supposed to opperate independently in this game. Get a squad keep it arround you. They will keep the AV folks off your, back you will kill kill kill.

Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 949	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:39:00 - [11] - Quote Um... No. Stop driving vehicles around infantry and you will never, EVER die to AV Grenades. Better yet, man all of your turrets and move with an infantry squad covering your advance. AV Grenades are fine.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 100	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:58:00 - [12] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Um... No. Stop driving vehicles around infantry and you will never, EVER die to AV Grenades. Better yet, man all of your turrets and move with an infantry squad covering your advance. AV Grenades are fine. So, stop using blasters? Because blasters have to get in close to do any real damage, because of our short optimal range, and the fact that they're pretty inaccurate.
Fighter4all Not Guilty EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.05.21 23:26:00 - [13] - Quote I don't know why but I feel like this post did nothing mostly because I haven't got a reply from a Dev... But I hope something is done about A/V nades soon and CCp if you can see this don't nerf them too hard I want them to be balanced not worthless. I think if you halved the damage, add a delay time and nerfed their rage a tiny bit they would be at least 80% balanced.
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.21 23:41:00 - [14] - Quote sigh... please stop warring over a purpose built peice of harware. if you think about it, you're an idiot if you run your tank without infantry fire support, because without that fire support those AV grenadiers will just sit there and make a mess of you. any good tank unit has a few infantrymen there to hit what the tank cant, or atleast drive them out of cover for your blaster to cause some pain. only the tanks that run around alone are the ones i see that have trouble with AV grenades
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 36	Posted - 2013.05.21 23:44:00 - [15] - Quote I have to disagree, At the moment its very hard to kill LAVS as is due to the speed they go. You have to be very skilled and/or have a bad driver to get kills with grens I need 2x Ex11 to take basic lavs. As for tanks your blasters have a much much greater range than my packed grenades. The only way you will get insta killed is if you go in amoungst enemy infantry or your flanked and attaced at short range. Tanks in real life are very vunrable to ground troops for example the world war 2 tanks were taken out by sticky bombs i.e. black tar over socks with dinamite in the. So you need infantry support to push an actual objective and the closer to infantry the higher the risk that you have of dying. In order for me to take you out if your in the open firing into enemy position. I have to run around hoping you wont see me, hoping no snipers snipe me or alert me to my presenve then put enough grenades to weaken you or kill you (depending on how good your tanks is). Yesterday it took 9 EX 11's to take out a tank when I was on a mountain throwing grenades down on it A good tanker would have been hit by a max of two if he had just disengaged once he realised where I was. Instead he actually tried to kill me for the terimity of trying to blow his tank up and suffered the consequences. Good infnatry plus tank support is a killer combination a lone wolf tank like everything in this game is vunrable. AV's need to be enough of a threat to tanks that they cant just go anywhere they want without consequences especally with the fact that proximity mines are easily seen, buggy and dont do that much damage anyway.
Psychotic Shooter Opus Arcana Orion Empire 63	Posted - 2013.05.21 23:58:00 - [16] - Quote Fighter4all wrote: A/V is to strong and I'll tell you why. Let's just say in that Swarm launchers are 100% Balanced. One thing the swarm launcher has is a charge up time or a Lock on time a time before it shoots which is about 2 seconds, then it has a time before it can lock on and shoot again which is about 4 seconds, then it has a reload time of about 6 seconds and in all it would take about. 4 lock ons 2 Time in between shots and 1 reload to shot 4 shots. Time to shoot 4 swarms (2X4) + (4X2) + (6X1)= 24 Second (this isn't accurate but it's an estimate) Now AV nades have no charge up time, do roughly the same damage as swarms, no wait time in between shots, time to get another grenade to throw 2 seconds. Time to throw 4 A/V grenades 4X2=8 seconds Now the perk of Swarms Long distance. Perks of A/V thrown fairly far for a granade. Thrown around corners/ Over walls Virtually inexhaustible when you have a nano hive Fast fire rate High Damage per second Granade slot so you can run a light weapon stays on the ground for 5 second until ran over So much more but i'm sure you've seen enough to know there's a problem with them. CCP to Balance this weapon you should put a 3 sec Arming timer on so yes you can throw grenade over and over again but you should have to arm it so it take longer so you can fire at the same speed of forge and swarms
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.22 00:00:00 - [17] - Quote Psychotic Shooter wrote: Fighter4all wrote: A/V is to strong and I'll tell you why. Let's just say in that Swarm launchers are 100% Balanced. One thing the swarm launcher has is a charge up time or a Lock on time a time before it shoots which is about 2 seconds, then it has a time before it can lock on and shoot again which is about 4 seconds, then it has a reload time of about 6 seconds and in all it would take about. 4 lock ons 2 Time in between shots and 1 reload to shot 4 shots. Time to shoot 4 swarms (2X4) + (4X2) + (6X1)= 24 Second (this isn't accurate but it's an estimate) Now AV nades have no charge up time, do roughly the same damage as swarms, no wait time in between shots, time to get another grenade to throw 2 seconds. Time to throw 4 A/V grenades 4X2=8 seconds Now the perk of Swarms Long distance. Perks of A/V thrown fairly far for a granade. Thrown around corners/ Over walls Virtually inexhaustible when you have a nano hive Fast fire rate High Damage per second Granade slot so you can run a light weapon stays on the ground for 5 second until ran over So much more but i'm sure you've seen enough to know there's a problem with them. then what is even the point of that button you press on top for the arming action? seriously, i know people want to balance everything...but come on, if you're having AV issues, stick with your infantry support CCP to Balance this weapon you should put a 3 sec Arming timer on so yes you can throw grenade over and over again but you should have to arm it so it take longer so you can fire at the same speed of forge and swarms how about you guys stop worrying about the Av grenades, and worry more about keeping infantry support?, seriously man
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 36	Posted - 2013.05.22 00:05:00 - [18] - Quote Psychotic Shooter wrote: Fighter4all wrote: A/V is to strong and I'll tell you why. Let's just say in that Swarm launchers are 100% Balanced. One thing the swarm launcher has is a charge up time or a Lock on time a time before it shoots which is about 2 seconds, then it has a time before it can lock on and shoot again which is about 4 seconds, then it has a reload time of about 6 seconds and in all it would take about. 4 lock ons 2 Time in between shots and 1 reload to shot 4 shots. Time to shoot 4 swarms (2X4) + (4X2) + (6X1)= 24 Second (this isn't accurate but it's an estimate) Now AV nades have no charge up time, do roughly the same damage as swarms, no wait time in between shots, time to get another grenade to throw 2 seconds. Time to throw 4 A/V grenades 4X2=8 seconds Now the perk of Swarms Long distance. Perks of A/V thrown fairly far for a granade. Thrown around corners/ Over walls Virtually inexhaustible when you have a nano hive Fast fire rate High Damage per second Granade slot so you can run a light weapon stays on the ground for 5 second until ran over So much more but i'm sure you've seen enough to know there's a problem with them. CCP to Balance this weapon you should put a 3 sec Arming timer on so yes you can throw grenade over and over again but you should have to arm it so it take longer so you can fire at the same speed of forge and swarms Tanks could have limited ammo to they don't. If you keep your distance and have overwatch on your tank from infantry then AV's are not a problem its only a problem when your not watching your six or you think you can take a platton of infantry in an entrenched position. Every single tank has the ability to avoid AV grenades and thats to not engage at that distance. The only way your getting damaged is if you put your tank in danger in the first place or you haven't got overwatch and your getting flanked by a sabater.
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.22 00:09:00 - [19] - Quote Tera, you have it entirely right, its rolling up alone into a furball and expecting to roll out of it without a scratch is what most tankers do. in all truth, that isnt going to happen, because without infantry support you are easily flanked, and left surrounded by explosions, AV grenades work as intended, and should be left as is, Tank drivers need to have more than the 'rofl i'm in a metal box and should be invincible' mentality, and realize that when rolling into it all, you WILL die
Niccolo deLuce Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.05.22 09:03:00 - [20] - Quote Rachoi wrote: Tera, you have it entirely right, its rolling up alone into a furball and expecting to roll out of it without a scratch is what most tankers do. in all truth, that isnt going to happen, because without infantry support you are easily flanked, and left surrounded by explosions, AV grenades work as intended, and should be left as is, Tank drivers need to have more than the 'rofl i'm in a metal box and should be invincible' mentality, and realize that when rolling into it all, you WILL die ^This^ This is the biggest issue I see in every game with a tank that dies. The smart ones either sit at range and blast people, or move in under infantry support. There are way too many times where I've killed tanks that just roll up into the middle of half of my team and sit there trying to blast us from 3-5 meters. Or, they drive past half of my team and then stop to shoot at somebody in front of them. It's a stupid tactic and they deserve to die. If you can't move in without your infantry covering every approach, then stop trying to wedge your tank in between buildings in those tight areas.



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