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Scouts need a Buff

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Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 331	Posted - 2013.05.20 14:06:00 - [1] - Quote No one has really hit on the core problem here, which is the scanning range. Everyone has a scanning range of 10 meters, it used to be quite larger in Chromosome. 10 meters is half of that smallest inner circle on your radar. It is completely useless. The scouts biggest asset is supposed to be it's low profile signature and scan precision, but with only a 10 meter passive scanning radius even a heavy can sneak behind enemy lines undetected.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 331	Posted - 2013.05.20 14:31:00 - [2] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: No one has really hit on the core problem here, which is the scanning range. Everyone has a scanning range of 10 meters, it used to be quite larger in Chromosome. 10 meters is half of that smallest inner circle on your radar. It is completely useless. The scouts biggest asset is supposed to be it's low profile signature and scan precision, but with only a 10 meter passive scanning radius even a heavy can sneak behind enemy lines undetected. I'm guessing they introduced this insanity because of the active scanner. It's one of those hammers people accuse CCP of using from time to time. I understand this, but 10 meters is, like you said, insanity. You can have good range passive scanning without making the active scanners pointless. Before the active scanners came out I thought their main benefit would be having excellent scanning precision, which indeed they do. But now they are also the only way to scan more than a few feet behind that wall. In short, increasing the scan radius of passive scanning wouldn't hurt active scanners because we would still have the relatively inaccurate scan precision.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 332	Posted - 2013.05.20 14:54:00 - [3] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Scouts biggest assets are strafe speed and small hitbox. So it tends to do really well in public matches. I do worry how it would contend against a group of really solid players though. But the scouts big strengths are the heavies biggest weakness and everyone agrees the heavy sucks. So I dont think its fair to jus tthrow those things away as meaningless. There are two things you can not improve via skills and modules, those are the things the scout is best at. I say this as someone who almost exclusively went scout. In fact, Im an idiot and went gallante scout, so I have the ****** scout, and i still like it. Im respecing into mimitar. Gallente Scout can get up to 100 meters passive scanning you know
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 332	Posted - 2013.05.20 15:05:00 - [4] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Would that be with a proto suit maxed out with range enhancements in the low slots? Could be useful as heck as a support role. But I play an agressive hit and run style, so I think the added speed and the slots for more shield provide me with a better build for my play style. I also use an active scanner, which while not as good as 100M passive, helps accomplish a similar thing if I use it well. Would passive scanned enemies appear on team mates radar as well or just mine? Yes, it's full proto scout with all 4 lows complex range amplifiers. My fit actually substitutes one of those for an armor repairer though, so I'm at 68 meters passive. But yeah if you want to be more of an aggressive scout then Minmatar is the way to go, I'm simply pointing out that Gallente is not useless. As to your other question, no. Passively scanned enemies only appear on your map. But for me I want to carry uplinks to get my team in position, I don't have room for an active scanner (even though it would provide greater precision and mark them for my teammates so don't say that further increasing the baseline passive scanning range would make active scanners useless! I'm speaking in general now Bones, not directly to you).
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 333	Posted - 2013.05.20 15:38:00 - [5] - Quote Well what's funny is the best way to buff a scout in my opinion would be to give every other suit better scanning radius as well. It may sound silly, but when you think about it that would actually give purpose to the scout's low scan profile as opposed to other suits. And I believe the Adv Gallente Scout getting 2 high wasn't intentional, simply looked over. It should have only 1.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 343	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:50:00 - [6] - Quote Sontie wrote: 100 meters passive scan range? How's you're math work out on that one? B = 10 m1 = .50 m2 = .50 m3 = .45 B + B(m1 + m2+ m3+ (m3.89)+(m3.57)+(m3.28) = 32.33 (assuming eve stacking penalties) or 38 without stacking penalties Start with 10 meter. 50% bonus from Scout Lv 5 = 15 meters 50% bonus from Range Amplification Skill Lv5 = 15 1.5 = 22.5 m (yes, it works like this) 45% bonus from 1st complex range mod = 22.5 * 1.45 = 32.6 m 45% bonus from 2nd complex range mod = 32.6 * 1.45 = 47.3 m (this mod has no stacking penalty) 45% bonus from 3rd complex range mod = 47.3 * 1.45 = 68.6 m 45% bonus from 4th complex range mod = 68.6 * 1.45 = 99.4 m
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 343	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:02:00 - [7] - Quote Well I was always told that mods in Dust are compounded. Also all the mods that have a stacking penalty say so in the description, range amplifiers do not.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 344	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:34:00 - [8] - Quote I can confirm that mods take the percentage of the current value, not the base value, when applying the percentages. How did I do this? Took my Gallente Medium Prototype suit which has 300 CPU I have dropsuit core upgrades at 2 and dropsuit electronics at 2, that is a 2% bonus and a 10% bonus 300 * 1.02 * 1.10 = 336.6. The value that appeared on the fitting screen is 337. If it was instead added to be a 12% bonus, 300 * 1.12 = 336, so it should of been 336 and not 337. So that confirms that various skills that affect the same attribute are compounded, not added. Then I took a basic CPU upgrade which does 16% increase. 16% of 300 is 48, so if it did take the base value then we'd expect 337 + 48 = 385. The value that showed up was 390. This makes sense if we compounded, since 337 * 1.16 = 389.76 which gets rounded to the observed 390. For good measure I added another basic CPU upgrade to see if this yet again compounds with the new value or simply adds to the first module. Now CPU upgrades do have a stacking penalty in the description, unlike range amplifiers. If we expected it to add to the module, that would be 16 + (16 * .87) = 29.92%. 337 * 1.2992 = 437.8 so we should expect 438. If it were compounded then 337 * 1.16 * (1 + (.16 * .87)) = 445.3, so we should expect 446. Drum roll The observed value is 445 So slight error, this is probably coming from using 337 instead of 336.6. Anyways, I believe that makes the case that modules are compounded and thus a Gallente Scout can get up to about 100 meters passive scanning.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 344	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:09:00 - [9] - Quote Vixi Starhart wrote: I disagree with everyone wanting more speed. I just want more profile dampening; I want scouts to be stealthier, not faster. But since the base value for all dropsuits scan radius is 10 meters it really doesn't matter how low your profile signature is as long as you aren't running close enough behind someone's back that you can almost touch. Everyone's scan radius needs to be increased so the scouts profile dampening actually has a benefit.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 344	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:50:00 - [10] - Quote I usually go with the uplinks on my scout as well. I view the scout to be better in this role because of the passive scanning potential, it makes it easier to avoid contact. But yes you are correct that scouts should avoid contact, that's why they are scouts and not assaults. They just need more stuff to do besides hacking, uplinks, or spotting (which is a decent start, but of course we need MORE). Also scout sniping is terrible, one shot and you are dead from a counter sniper. The profile dampening means nothing when you are far away on some perch, no one is getting within 10 meters to spot you. Amarr logi is best suit for snipers, get their uplinks, ammo, sniper rifle, and a good sidearm.

Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 351	Posted - 2013.05.22 15:49:00 - [11] - Quote Prius Vecht wrote: They need to add the hi/lo slots back that they took from scouts and its fine. No one gets more than one equip slot except the logi. That's silly considering most logis here say the class isn't supposed to be centered around equipment I don't see what would be so bad about scout with 2 equipment, logi would still have more (3 to 4) and the CPU/PG to actually put good stuff there.

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