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Increase walking speed of scouts, reduce jump stamina drain

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Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:38:00 - [1] - Quote Scouts have a lot of balancing issues that need to be addressed. Most know this, so I'm not going to focus on the overall issues. Instead I'll talk about a few niche tactics that won't affect overall game balance but will make life MUCH easier for a few niche playstyles. 1. Increase the walking speed of scouts, especially the Minmitar variants to differentiate them from the Gallente suits I'll preface this by saying that I'm a dedicated nova knifer, in that I've got all my SP sunk into skills that would benefit that playstyle, and that I never run a primary. I understand that I'm not supposed to dominate the entire field with just a secondary weapon, trust me. That said, attempts to actually kill people with the knives is extremely frustrating. If your potential victim spots you, all they have to do is walk backwards and the shoddy hit detection (Another issue I'm hoping will be addressed soon) will render them practically untouchable by the knives. Today I spotted a proto heavy with his back turned walking - not sprinting, walking - away from me, so I charged the knives to their fullest, and then proceeded to follow him for a good 7 seconds before he led me into enemy territory and I was killed before even entering the range that I might have be able to hit him. I run a Minmatar scout suit. I may be incorrect, but I was under the impression that these are supposed to be the fastest suits in the game, and yet I couldn't even out-walk a heavy. This is absurd. Being able to sprint with the knives charged would help mitigate this problem by allowing knife users to take advantage of the scout's superior sprinting speed, but if I'm correct in assuming that CCP do not want to implement charge while sprinting, the best way to help this issue is to increase the walking speed of scouts. I can't comment on how this will affect the balance of the game because, quite frankly, I'm totally ignorant of how increasing the global walking speed of scouts would affect game systems. Would strafing become overpowered and would the scout suit become the new go-to easy mode suit? I don't know. However, limiting this increase to forward walking speed would, as far as I know, eliminate these potential concerns. 2. Decrease jumping stamina drain for scouts Again, I'll use my experience as a nova knifer for reference, but this has more to do with overall scout balancing than with nova knives specifically. I'll start off by saying that the most effective tactic I know for using knives in a one-on-one situation is jumping towards the opponent I'm fighting while charging the knives. While eliminating my ability to strafe to avoid fire, this covers a lot of ground quite quickly, intimidates the opponent and most importantly allows me to charge my knives so that I can (hopefully) deal a significant amount of damage to my opponent once I'm within range. Most of the time, this tactic is very useful. However, jumping depletes around 50 percent of the basic scout's stamina, which is incredibly excessive. For a suit for which stamina is one of its defining features, the utility of jumping is far, FAR outweighed by the cost of lifting yourself a few feet from the ground. You've probably been there. Those few crates stacked on top of one another next to a wall, conveniently placed by developers so as to allow crafty players to find a more covert way to enter a compound. It's a classic design move that adds a lot of depth to a map in a very simple to implement way. And yet how many times have you found yourself and others sitting on top of a crate burning precious seconds in an attempt to build the stamina necessary to reach the next crate? How many times have you jumped, only to find that you misjudged the amount of stamina required to reach the next level, and ended up having to wait for your stamina to build again? This is an issue, and compounded with the very inconsistent terrain/scenery collision it has become a pretty significant irritation, and has corrupted what would otherwise be a great mechanic. This is where the rationale behind this change to scouts becomes obvious. Scouts are at a natural disadvantage in head-on combat. If they were intended for direct assault like the Assault suits are, they would be a laughing stock, nerfed in every major aspect. But scout suits' advantages lie elsewhere. They are quick, small, and difficult to spot. They're the perfect suits for being crafty, sneaky and exploiting the different quirks of a given map to their advantage. However, on top of the balancing issues they currently face (Which, like I said, I won't be addressing), they're unable to exploit maps well. Most suits are incapable of jumping over scenery like rails and small walls, and while a scout can do these things to a certain extent, it's very difficult to capitalize on, and oftentimes there really aren't any worthwhile ways for scouts to use their map-navigating prowess at its full potential. Scouts are confined to using the same paths and corridors that assaults, logis and heavies use. They can't fly gracefully over walls and small barriers; they're roped into preset pathways, where they can be slaughtered with ease by the far more combat-capable assault, logistics and heavy players. I should make it clear that I'm not suggesting that scouts gain access to passages and shortcuts that other suits can't enter (Although this would be ridiculously cool, CCP). I'm just suggesting that decreasing the jumping stamina drain on scouts, while not fixing all of these issues, would increase their tactical viability, deepen the mechanics and nuances of utilizing their role, and make them more attractive to players. I'll return to the crate-jumping to exemplify part of what this change might bring: The clunky and time consuming nature of this shortcut would cause other suits to ignore this option, but scouts could now easily use it to flank. Thoughts?
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [2] - Quote Ran out of characters, so the ending might seem a little abrupt. I was going to expand on it and mention that I don't know whether or not the hypothetical stamina drain decrease would cause excessive bunnyhopping, but I doubt that would be an issue. Even if it did, it would just add another potential improvement to the vastly underused and underappreciated scout class. So again, thoughts?
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 34	Posted - 2013.05.19 07:11:00 - [3] - Quote just lol at the scout beeing faster. but on the real no an no to more jumping around like fools.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2013.05.19 18:55:00 - [4] - Quote Bunny hopping isn't at all a viable strategy. If you don't stay on the ground you can't strafe, and if you don't strafe then you'll die. These tweaks wouldn't affect head on combat, they would improve scouts in other areas.
InsidiousN KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 55	Posted - 2013.05.19 19:11:00 - [5] - Quote Nova Knives need to be able to hold a charge while sprinting, and used while sprinting. That will balance out the incredibly low health of a Scout.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2366	Posted - 2013.05.19 19:47:00 - [6] - Quote InsidiousN wrote: Nova Knives need to be able to hold a charge while sprinting, and used while sprinting. That will balance out the incredibly low health of a Scout. I ran the numbers. see here At first I was supportive of the idea of sprinting with the charged knife. But as I looked at the numbers, the knives are so powerful that already we saw one thread pop up proclaiming the knives to be overpowered. Of course, that thread was from a stupid heavy who should have known better than to roam alone. To add the sprint ability with a charge held is practically crossing the thin line between perfection and being OP. So no, no sprint/charge. Besides, we're getting cloaking modules in the future.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2366	Posted - 2013.05.19 19:50:00 - [7] - Quote I do have to agree with the OP on one thing. The base movement speed need to be buffed up a bit for scout suits since they are technically light dropsuits with very minimal gear on them.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 7	Posted - 2013.05.19 20:21:00 - [8] - Quote You don't have to add sprint/charge AND leave the damage stats the same as they are now. But I digress. The balancing with the knives is pretty fine right now I guess. If they buffed the forward walking speed a bit and fixed the hit detection I'd basically have no major complaints at all. [Apart from wanting to be able to parkour around the map in a scout suit. :( ]
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2366	Posted - 2013.05.19 20:39:00 - [9] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: You don't have to add sprint/charge AND leave the damage stats the same as they are now. But I digress. The balancing with the knives is pretty fine right now I guess. If they buffed the forward walking speed a bit and fixed the hit detection I'd basically have no major complaints at all. [Apart from wanting to be able to parkour around the map in a scout suit. :( ] That is something CCP needs to address. Some of the attacks I do with the knives don't seem to register even when I know for a fact that I hit my target three times.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 79	Posted - 2013.05.19 20:51:00 - [10] - Quote Bunny hopping is absolutely stupid and ridiculous in every FPS game -- not just this one. If it just so happens that jumping is useful in battle for reasons other than maneuvering obstacles, then it should be recognized as a problem and fixed immediately by the developers.

Val'herik Dorn SyNergy Gaming EoN. 590	Posted - 2013.05.19 22:40:00 - [11] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: You don't have to add sprint/charge AND leave the damage stats the same as they are now. But I digress. The balancing with the knives is pretty fine right now I guess. If they buffed the forward walking speed a bit and fixed the hit detection I'd basically have no major complaints at all. [Apart from wanting to be able to parkour around the map in a scout suit. :( ] This works both ways. Broken hit detection is not only the scouts problem... it probably saves a scout more than hurts them. I hit scouts with charge shots from my scrambler rifle that one hit decent medium frames... but scouts in the same circumstance will just keep coming becuase of hit detection. If hit detection is truly FIXED scouts will suffer more than any class in the game. Their EXTREMELY low health already disappears in a laughable time. If all shots fired land... you won't stand a chance. Especially against an hmg...
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 97	Posted - 2013.05.19 22:42:00 - [12] - Quote if you want to jump more use a suit that gets an endurance bonus, or mods to cover it. simple.
PEW JACKSON L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1	Posted - 2013.05.19 23:09:00 - [13] - Quote low genius wrote: if you want to jump more use a suit that gets an endurance bonus, or mods to cover it. simple. No scout available with said bonus. Modules are a bad idea in this case, that gives logis and assault a chance to yet again outperform the scout.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 10	Posted - 2013.05.19 23:18:00 - [14] - Quote PEW JACKSON wrote: low genius wrote: if you want to jump more use a suit that gets an endurance bonus, or mods to cover it. simple. No scout available with said bonus. Modules are a bad idea in this case, that gives logis and assault a chance to yet again outperform the scout. Fantastic, someone with sense. I figured this criticism might come up. Replacing survivability modules like shield extenders and armor repair with stamina modules on an already paper thin class is suicide. Besides, what problems would this buff cause for everyone else?
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 321	Posted - 2013.05.20 00:18:00 - [15] - Quote I say yes to more speed but no to jump stamina. Scouts are only a little faster than assaults and have to pay for that with a considerable loss of armor, shields, CPU, PG, and slots. If the speed is going to make up for all of that then it needs to be more. And yeah technically the scout also has a lower profile signature and higher scan precision, but when everyone's default scan radius is only 10 meters that means nothing.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 161	Posted - 2013.05.20 00:27:00 - [16] - Quote I'd potentially be okay with this, except there is one condition. Speed can be increased, but they have to add movement acceleration first (this would apply to all characters, not just scouts). I think people tend to think overall speed is a big issue. But being able to quickly change directions and reach the maximum directional speed is the real problem. And for those who have noticed, yes, I am going to post about this as many times as possible.


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