DUST Search - PS 4 ?

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

What was the point than last console generation? At the time Xbox360/PS3 hit the market all your above points are as valid as they are now? U always could get and play the same none exclusive console games on PC, while some PC only games always looked better.

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

The reason is the same as before: A console is a affordable, low maintenance, easy to use gaming "BOX", that can be used "out of the box" from your couch on the big screen. The new consoles may add TV and Internet capabilities, but this just shortens the gap to a PC.

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

Sure someone may argue, "But the steambox will change this all", but the SteamBox still comes with linux pre-installed, which given the current Linux games is no alternative to tinker with it and install windows on it, which is by no means a "out of the box" experience u get on consoles.

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

So u need to ask yourself, why did u care for any console last generation?

AndyPandy Puschel wrote:

On the bright side, see how things unfold from the developer perspective. Mid-size to small PC only developers are now able to get extra profit, by allowing the easy and cheap ports to both consoles. This is huge!
On top of that console developers now have a much easier time to create games for all platforms, since its basically the same architecture without any obscure hardware differences like PS3/SPU or IBM in-order CPU's. Even better console developers have the best conditions ever, to create good games. 5-7GB "usable" 64bit Ram/CPU makes things so much easier, compared to the last gen of consoles.

All this means more profit for game developers, while allowing faster and streamlined development processes. This means better and more diverse games on all platforms, since a PC only dev can now aim much higher, if he also can get a console version out. Indy devs now also can target consoles, since only minimal special knowledge is needed, hence u probably might not even need to buy a DevKit, since the CPU/GPU is so similar to what a PC has.

I think both mayor consoles going for "normal" x86 CPU's and standard GPU's, is the best thing that could happen for both PC and console gamers!

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Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:55:00 - [31] - Quote From what we have heard it seems Sony has learnt from the Cell debacle and have so far out-Microsoft'ed (we will know in a couple of hours) MS and developers are raving about the setup and the onboard RAM. All the big developers are angling for Console love because that is where the money is made so you only worry about putting out that 20% or more graphical quality and that ridiculous frame rate if you understand that you are going to spend around $1000 approx for your machine and then another $300 + for an ultra def (higher than 1080p) display. On the Carbon footage shown - that looks better than Uprising (duh) but that looks scripted and that is easy to fake. We will see how real it is if they can land quickly on PS4 with that sort of quality.
Sparadok ZionTCD Unclaimed. 15	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:07:00 - [32] - Quote I'd like a ps4 at launch, bought my ps3 on launch day. Im glad I did too for the first 6 months with the limited games at launch I could keep up with my favourite ps2 titles, that I still play now and again on my ps3. If I had waited 12 months I would have been stuck with an inferior ps3 that btw mine has outlasted many slim ps3's. Heres hoping ps4 is backwards compatible rthen we can have best of both worlds cos if not it might be bye bye dust.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 585	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:31:00 - [33] - Quote Sparadok, the PS4 won't be backwards compatible. Can't play PS3 or PS2 games on it. Link PS4 has about 2 TFLOPs of processing power as opposed to 400 on the PS3. Might be able to run on the carbon engine, but I'd imagine a lot of development time would have to go in to make it similar to the DUST we're playing. Not in the flaws, I mean the actual game.
AndyPandy Puschel Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:34:00 - [34] - Quote Sparadok wrote: Heres hoping ps4 is backwards compatible rthen we can have best of both worlds cos if not it might be bye bye dust. Um, sorry to tell u this but no PS4 wont be "fully" backwards compatible as noted in many articles and by Sony itself: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/04/sony_thought_long_and_hard_over_ps4s_lack_of_backward_compatibility I mean realistically they switch to a totally different hardware platform with the PS4, it would be really costly and difficult to attain backwards compatibility, but i also agree with sony that the move to x86 is much more promising than restricting some hardware aspects via compatibility for the first 1 year. On the bright side, u might be"lucky" and given either some extra money spend or probably PSN+ u might be able to "stream" some old PS2/3 games via Gaikai, similar to what OnLive did. http://www.gamesradar.com/ps4-backward-compatibility-explained/
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 75	Posted - 2013.05.22 11:54:00 - [35] - Quote AndyPandy Puschel wrote: Orenji Jiji wrote: Sony and Microsoft going with x86 is just a money-grab move. Perhaps they've finally learned reg. bleeding money on hardware production and want to limit the spill these days. But I know one thing -- this was driven by accountants, not by engineers. U seem to have a little misconception here, so let me ask u: Given a 250$ hardware budget and the problems developers had with the "strange" PS3/PSU architecture, what hardware would u use in your nextGen console? This means how u get the most bang for the buck? Honestly? No clue. I'm not hw engineer, but I am aware that exotic architecture is both expensive to R&D, mass production and software development time. Libraries and engines takes years to be perfected, while on x86 we get some pretty sweet advancement out of the box. I remember Sega Saturn problems, still glad my dad liked Sony and got me PlayStation instead, despite me asking for Sega. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: I would either pick ARM smart-phone hardware or ofc older PC hardware, u need to get as much "useable" performance as u can get, so picking PC hardware was the obvious choice. Given our currently increasing AAA title budget, its much more important to get a easy to develop console out, instead of some "funky" theoretically MFLOPS stats using some strange and obscure hardware architecture. I dig that and while I see ARM as the future of PC (Microsoft is with me on this) I don't think we'd be able to get this much power out of it without some heavy R&D, which nobody wants to commit to anymore. And x86 is so much more robust when it comes to ready solutions for gaming. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: U also seem to forget that the hardware we will be able to buy, will probably be still subsidized at first, so no u wont be able to build a similar performing PC given the same budget, so i wont call this "money-grabing". I also don't understand whats so bad on a affordable, easy to use gaming console? Simply don't believe the marketing, ofc a console cant compete with current high end PC's, how could they given the budget? Remember u don't pay 1000$ for a console. Nah, I meant money-grabbing as in: heavily reduced R&D, reduced manufacturing cost, reduced cost of getting non-exclusive titles (for the lazy most likely just one step: recompile with correct flags). Damn, at this point PS4 seems to be winning with Xbox One by RAM used and losing by USB speed, lack of speech recog and kinect, but the rest is more or less the same. They did not specify core series or graphics yet, unless I'm wrong, but it's basically identical to PS4, except for the OS. So it will be just dumbed down PC -- what was the point of the console then? Exclusive games? Boot lock? DRM chip? I only care about one of these things and now I could just play them on gaming PC, right? I mean the game will be for x86 architecture and PC GPU, just locked to play on a single box? Seems logical. As I said above -- I don't play on PC anymore. I will get a PS4. I'm just having problems with rationalizing this against cutom built HTPC that could run the same stuff without a hitch. I'm not hating, just losing faith. ;-)
steadyhand amarr BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 578	Posted - 2013.05.22 12:10:00 - [36] - Quote Well as the xboxone clearly has no intrest in gamers I will be sticking with the ps4 and I will be highly supprised if dust514 does not move over. And I hope it does as I shouldby have a nice number of passive skillpoints built up inbetween stage :-P.
AndyPandy Puschel Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.05.22 14:19:00 - [37] - Quote Orenji Jiji wrote: So it will be just dumbed down PC -- what was the point of the console then? Exclusive games? Boot lock? DRM chip? I only care about one of these things and now I could just play them on gaming PC, right? I mean the game will be for x86 architecture and PC GPU, just locked to play on a single box? Seems logical. As I said above -- I don't play on PC anymore. I will get a PS4. I'm just having problems with rationalizing this against cutom built HTPC that could run the same stuff without a hitch. I'm not hating, just losing faith. ;-) What was the point than last console generation? At the time Xbox360/PS3 hit the market all your above points are as valid as they are now? U always could get and play the same none exclusive console games on PC, while some PC only games always looked better. The reason is the same as before: A console is a affordable, low maintenance, easy to use gaming "BOX", that can be used "out of the box" from your couch on the big screen. The new consoles may add TV and Internet capabilities, but this just shortens the gap to a PC. Sure someone may argue, "But the steambox will change this all", but the SteamBox still comes with linux pre-installed, which given the current Linux games is no alternative to tinker with it and install windows on it, which is by no means a "out of the box" experience u get on consoles. So u need to ask yourself, why did u care for any console last generation? On the bright side, see how things unfold from the developer perspective. Mid-size to small PC only developers are now able to get extra profit, by allowing the easy and cheap ports to both consoles. This is huge! On top of that console developers now have a much easier time to create games for all platforms, since its basically the same architecture without any obscure hardware differences like PS3/SPU or IBM in-order CPU's. Even better console developers have the best conditions ever, to create good games. 5-7GB "usable" 64bit Ram/CPU makes things so much easier, compared to the last gen of consoles. All this means more profit for game developers, while allowing faster and streamlined development processes. This means better and more diverse games on all platforms, since a PC only dev can now aim much higher, if he also can get a console version out. Indy devs now also can target consoles, since only minimal special knowledge is needed, hence u probably might not even need to buy a DevKit, since the CPU/GPU is so similar to what a PC has. I think both mayor consoles going for "normal" x86 CPU's and standard GPU's, is the best thing that could happen for both PC and console gamers!
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 129	Posted - 2013.05.22 14:32:00 - [38] - Quote For those that want DUST on PC. The home of FPS games. You think dust has low player count now? move it to PC. EVE players will play it. But why on earth would any FPS player on PC play this over "TRIBES", "PLANETSIDE 2" "ARMA 3" or the next FPS only PC game?
AndyPandy Puschel Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.05.22 15:11:00 - [39] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: EVE players will play it. But why on earth would any FPS player on PC play this over "TRIBES", "PLANETSIDE 2" "ARMA 3" or the next FPS only PC game? Um well just my own crazy, wild theory, but maybe because Dust is not exactly like "TRIBES", "PLANETSIDE 2" "ARMA 3" ? Why would anyone "on earth" play ARMA 3 or DayZ over "Tribes"? Why would anyone play CoD4 over Planetside 2? Reformulating your own question to make my point: " But why on earth would any FPS player on Xbox360 play MW3 over Battlefield 3 or the next FPS only Xbox360 game? I guess your point was, that given to lower technically and overall FPS experience compared to games that cost 10 times more money, it would sound logical to never pickup Dust if u own a PC or a other console? This would be a valid point if Dust would be a exact copy of any particular game, but obviously it is not. The main effect the lower quality has are the much lower sales figures, but since the experience differs from the mentioned FPS games on other platforms, anyone can test out Dust and see if he/she likes this experience or not.
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 3	Posted - 2013.05.22 15:24:00 - [40] - Quote not sure if you all realize the effect the main memory being GDDR5 will be for the ps4, that's going to keep it competitive substantially longer than you think, especially with that also being the memory for the gpu cuts out a TON of bottlenecks in game performance over the standard model, the GPU doesn't lose memory like it often does with integrated GPU, and the CPU GAINS tons of memory BW, like a factor of 10 over the BW for standard CPUs, that's huge the cpu may be slower, and the gpu may not crunch as well, but cutting into those times for loading and memory tansfer can make that seem much faster :)

AndyPandy Puschel Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2013.05.22 16:38:00 - [41] - Quote matsumoto yuichi san wrote: not sure if you all realize the effect the main memory being GDDR5 will be for the ps4, that's going to keep it competitive substantially longer than you think So going by your "Expert" opinion, Microsoft by not choosing GDDR5 willingly choose to not aim for a longer life-cycle? Fair enough, could be that they want to refresh there console more often than Sony. What i think is more plausible and backed up by most PC benchmarks in the last 10 years, is that raw memory speed plays only a minor role if it comes to games. Direct main memory access is still bloody slow, compared to cache L0-3 access speed, thats why u still need to make sure your working set stays in cache memory or u need to hide the memory latency. So i pick larger or faster cache anytime over faster main memory. Quote: the cpu may be slower, and the gpu may not crunch as well, but cutting into those times for loading and memory tansfer can make that seem much faster :) No it does not "make that seem much faster", first of memory speed plays no role at all for loading times. The ability to swap in a SDD, larger RAM or the dedicated texture compress/decompress chips on the XBoxOne does play a role in loading times. If the CPU/GPU is too slow for a certain calculation, u cant make up with it by faster main memory access, most shader texture latency/access is hidden by overlapping them with other texture access and doing none dependent calculations in between. Most complex shaders can hide most texture accesses very well, if at all memory speed plays a role for faster postprocess or defered AA shaders. Sony seemed to put more faith into investing those extra 15$ into faster memory, while XboxOne put there bet on a more expansive Kinect and several dedicated extra chips that helps with decoding/encoding and there TV capability. In the end those 15$ more wont make a huge difference on the long run or otherwise Microsoft engineers would be doing a pretty bad job, don't u think?
steadyhand amarr BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 582	Posted - 2013.05.22 16:41:00 - [42] - Quote Some parts of this thread are painfull to read. My sympathies to it engineers :-P
11Up3Down Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.05.22 16:50:00 - [43] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: It should really launch with PS4 or be there by Christmas. It would be a big boost. I wonder if CCP is just this slow with content delivery or they are actually double timing working on the PS4 client. There is no PS4 version of Dust being released. CCP stated this during a Q&A the day before Fanfest started. CCP believes that there is a lot of life left in the PS3 and they are going to continue to work on building Dust for the PS3, NOT the PS4. Watch it for yourself: http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/394708149
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 76	Posted - 2013.05.24 09:06:00 - [44] - Quote AndyPandy Puschel wrote: What was the point than last console generation? At the time Xbox360/PS3 hit the market all your above points are as valid as they are now? U always could get and play the same none exclusive console games on PC, while some PC only games always looked better. Honestly? When PS3 came out it was not even a question to me (PS, PS2 and PSP owner) -- I was a believer. Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Killzone, anything Naughty Dog. BluRay on the cheap. Playing games from PS2 (first models). Able to run Linux. Very cool CELL architecture. It was a little bit over-hyped, but in the spirit of olden consoles (basically streamlined arcade machine in a small box). I never cared about XBOX, so I only half-read the laments of it becoming a dumbed down PC box. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: The reason is the same as before: A console is a affordable, low maintenance, easy to use gaming "BOX", that can be used "out of the box" from your couch on the big screen. The new consoles may add TV and Internet capabilities, but this just shortens the gap to a PC. I get your point, I really do, but riddle me this: With ZERO conversion costs for porting and evergrowing PC power how will you feel when all the games you've got are released for PC and run so much better on your 80" inch plasma? Because this is what will happen. Exclusivity deals will only last that long. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: Sure someone may argue, "But the steambox will change this all", but the SteamBox still comes with linux pre-installed, which given the current Linux games is no alternative to tinker with it and install windows on it, which is by no means a "out of the box" experience u get on consoles. Steambox is a fail. Too expensive. And I say this as Linux user. I know valve is working hard on porting their source portfolio, but still -- PS4 for me. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: So u need to ask yourself, why did u care for any console last generation? Like in all previous console generations: exclusives. AndyPandy Puschel wrote: On the bright side, see how things unfold from the developer perspective. Mid-size to small PC only developers are now able to get extra profit, by allowing the easy and cheap ports to both consoles. This is huge! On top of that console developers now have a much easier time to create games for all platforms, since its basically the same architecture without any obscure hardware differences like PS3/SPU or IBM in-order CPU's. Even better console developers have the best conditions ever, to create good games. 5-7GB "usable" 64bit Ram/CPU makes things so much easier, compared to the last gen of consoles. All this means more profit for game developers, while allowing faster and streamlined development processes. This means better and more diverse games on all platforms, since a PC only dev can now aim much higher, if he also can get a console version out. Indy devs now also can target consoles, since only minimal special knowledge is needed, hence u probably might not even need to buy a DevKit, since the CPU/GPU is so similar to what a PC has. I think both mayor consoles going for "normal" x86 CPU's and standard GPU's, is the best thing that could happen for both PC and console gamers! I dig that, and from one end it makes me really happy -- if only we could get sane game prices with this process it would be great. It's just the bad taste it leaves because when it comes to exclusive content I believe that "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers". Guess the future will tell. I will get one still, just not the first batch, as I will be very busy with Holiday lineup on PS3. :) Thanks for not trolling, bro, I appreciate adult discussion.
Schalac 17 Murderz for hire 164	Posted - 2013.05.24 18:24:00 - [45] - Quote They should release it day one on the PS4. Not for the demise of DUST on PS3, but for the added community that they would gain by doing so. FFXI has been on PS2, XBOX 360 and PC for many years. So we know it is possible to have a massive game operate in tandem on three different systems. EVE currently operates on PC, Mac and Linux. So why do you think it would be impossible to operate DUST on PS3 and PS4?
SERPENT-Adamapple Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2013.05.24 19:13:00 - [46] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: They should release it day one on the PS4. Not for the demise of DUST on PS3, but for the added community that they would gain by doing so. FFXI has been on PS2, XBOX 360 and PC for many years. So we know it is possible to have a massive game operate in tandem on three different systems. EVE currently operates on PC, Mac and Linux. So why do you think it would be impossible to operate DUST on PS3 and PS4? This needs to happen through their cloud service. Just give the early adopters a way of playing dust 514 on ps4 with ps3. Sony will generate many sales on launch once most of the dust community catches wind that dust will be playable on ps4 as well as ps3.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 40	Posted - 2013.05.24 20:17:00 - [47] - Quote SERPENT-Adamapple wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: They should release it day one on the PS4. Not for the demise of DUST on PS3, but for the added community that they would gain by doing so. FFXI has been on PS2, XBOX 360 and PC for many years. So we know it is possible to have a massive game operate in tandem on three different systems. EVE currently operates on PC, Mac and Linux. So why do you think it would be impossible to operate DUST on PS3 and PS4? This needs to happen through their cloud service. Just give the early adopters a way of playing dust 514 on ps4 with ps3. Sony will generate many sales on launch once most of the dust community catches wind that dust will be playable on ps4 as well as ps3. I like this idea. CCP can keep improving the game for the PS3 while still allowing PS4 players to play (of course with a lot of mods and it might be harder than it sounds). This would allow an easier transition when they finally want to move to PS4 exclusively, for a new build on a new engine. They could even find a way to keep DUST on PS3 in the future, with certain limits as to it's interactivity as a whole (separate battles, no PC, etc). If we keep the same PSN accounts, they only have to account for the difference in hardware, which there being only 2 different systems could be very manageable.
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2013.05.24 21:03:00 - [48] - Quote The thing is, that pretty much every game developer that said something about the PS4, was extremely happy about the 8GB of GDDR5 RAM. So I have to take the word of: Some guy on a forum VS An experienced game developer who has worked on games for years I think I'll go with the latter.
PREDATORPANTS YW Illuminati.. 3	Posted - 2013.05.24 21:10:00 - [49] - Quote I know this is early on, but its the only section of the post that actually made me laugh at the screen. Why are people talking about the cross play when its linked on a single shard server anyway? -_-
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2013.05.24 21:19:00 - [50] - Quote Also, John Carmack said its good. That's the gold stamp of approval right there.



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