DUST Search - Building the Amarr and Caldari Scout and their role (Criticize/Imput on my Setup...

Delirium Inferno wrote:

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

Delirium Inferno wrote:

You are way too darn generous with your equipment and high/low slots. I have more to say but I'll add it later.

at the disadvantage of no light weapon, less defense, and less speed, that was the balance I was working towards. Real Variation in roles, and as it stands, scouts are forced into 100% combat, which is less than the choice for logis to go slayerbros or logibro. Scouts need to expand on non-combat roles and currently the two that are out don't allow that in the slightest, so the hope is for the other two to have more of a sabotage/scouting role that the other scouts who were not given the tools to fill in such.

Yes, even with your proposed disadvantages the slots are way too much.

Also please tell me how the Gallente logistics is a combat scout. At prototype they get 1 high and 4 lows. You can't really buff your shields with only one high slot, and if you buff your armor in the low slots the speed penalties defeat the purpose of a scout. The Gallente scout has no viable way to get any good amount of hitpoints and is thus not a combat oriented role. The abundance of low slots make it good for electronics since all those modules are low-powered (except precision enhancer). As it stands, Gallente scout is best suited for electronic warfare.

The Minmatar scout on the other hand can shield tank a good bit and it a bit more combat oriented, so I see your point there.

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Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege 12	Posted - 2013.05.18 19:33:00 - [1] - Quote The Minmatar scout is a scout assault hybrid and is very combat oriented, being the fastest, with a light weapon and 4 high slots = damage/defense mods, the Gallante Scout is positioning combat oriented as it gets bonuses to detection (which should be improved on) in addition to 4 low slots which helps with stealth/detection which allows you to set up an ambush (which is what I play until other scouts come along). If these two suits are equivalent of a Combat Recon ships in EVE, then the other 2 scouts should fill in the role of Force Recon ships. Meaning the role I see for these two scouts is dedicated EWAR, and in Dust I see that translating to abilities that disrupt, confuse, and disorient the opponent, which would net you war points. Essentially, these scouts would serve as negative logis. These will be slower scouts than the other 2 (meaning Minmatar Assault might be faster than them) and a decrease in flexibility in offensive roles, in addition to less overall defense than the other 2 scouts. Caldari Scout Suit Layout: Sidearm: 2 Low slots: 3 High slots: 3 Equipment: 3 Grenade: 1 Suit Racial: +10% duration to Target Jamming Amarr Scout Suit Layout: Sidearm: 2 Low slots: 4 High Slots: 4 Equipment: 2 Grenade: 1 Suit Racial: CPU/PG reduction to Nosferatu Equipment Since the MIn and Gal were unbalanced in slay outs, I decided to balance both Caldari and Amarr high/low. So it would look like this Caldari----------------Amarr +1 equip +1High +1Low +Slight speed +Slight overall HP What could Nosferatu be in dust? Similar to what it is in EVE, since our CPU/PG is what powers our suits, Nosferatu could slow down speed (turning, moving, and aiming) due to the fact that since cpu/pg is diminished so is the suits abilities to perform. It could be a channel and variants could hit multiple targets at once or at further distances. Target Jamming can be two things as it pertains to dust, it could be an equipment that effect the ability of the opponents gun to shoot accurately (this can give you SP), and an ability to create false player signatures to confuse the enemy (no sp for this) I have other ideas for EWAR but in regards to the 2 other scout suits those would be there bonuses, this is what I had in mind for how they should differentiate themselves. I would be excited if the Caldari Scout came out the way I have it here. Anyways, any thoughts, critiques, or other ideas?
Spergin McBadposter Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 41	Posted - 2013.05.18 20:02:00 - [2] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: The Minmatar scout is a scout assault hybrid and is very combat oriented, being the fastest, with a light weapon and 4 high slots = damage/defense mods, The minmatar scout only has 3 high slots.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege 12	Posted - 2013.05.18 20:12:00 - [3] - Quote Spergin McBadposter wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: The Minmatar scout is a scout assault hybrid and is very combat oriented, being the fastest, with a light weapon and 4 high slots = damage/defense mods, The minmatar scout only has 3 high slots. That was a mistype, but your are right and that is a valid correction of a major oversight on my part.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 297	Posted - 2013.05.18 20:52:00 - [4] - Quote You are way too darn generous with your equipment and high/low slots. I have more to say but I'll add it later.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 484	Posted - 2013.05.18 20:58:00 - [5] - Quote Caldari specialize in range, so no light slot to fit sniper rifle for scout of race sniper is made by? I would assume the hi/lo slot layout of caldari would be flipped from gallente like other suits. Amarr have balanced slots, but fewer of them on the assault. I would think scout would follow the pattern. more like 2 high, 2 low, 1 equipment for proto.
Goat of Dover Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 166	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:01:00 - [6] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: You are way too darn generous with your equipment and high/low slots. I have more to say but I'll add it later. I agree these suits need to be balanced to the current scouts as opposed to the logos which is how it appears to done.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 297	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:01:00 - [7] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Caldari specialize in range, so no light slot to fit sniper rifle for scout of race sniper is made by? I would assume the hi/lo slot layout of caldari would be flipped from gallente like other suits. Amarr have balanced slots, but fewer of them on the assault. I would think scout would follow the pattern. more like 2 high, 2 low, 1 equipment for proto. If Amarr gets only 2 high, 2 low then it would be at a straight up disadvantage to Minmatar who gets 3 high 2 low. Perhaps if the Amarr scout could carry an extra equipment that would make up for it, though I'm sort of pushing for all scouts to get 2 equipment by default (not light frames, but scouts).
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 266	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:09:00 - [8] - Quote The minimatar really needs another low slot. WTF.
LongLostLust Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 19	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:15:00 - [9] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: Caldari specialize in range, so no light slot to fit sniper rifle for scout of race sniper is made by? I would assume the hi/lo slot layout of caldari would be flipped from gallente like other suits. Amarr have balanced slots, but fewer of them on the assault. I would think scout would follow the pattern. more like 2 high, 2 low, 1 equipment for proto. If Amarr gets only 2 high, 2 low then it would be at a straight up disadvantage to Minmatar who gets 3 high 2 low. Perhaps if the Amarr scout could carry an extra equipment that would make up for it, though I'm sort of pushing for all scouts to get 2 equipment by default (not light frames, but scouts). I would also give every scout 2 equipment slots but my suggestion is that one must be an active scanner
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 297	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:16:00 - [10] - Quote mollerz wrote: The minimatar really needs another low slot. WTF. No, not it does not. The Gallente and Minmatar scout suits are perfect where their slots are. The only thing that needs adjustment is an increase to their default scanning range (seriously, scouts have the same scanning radius as a heavy. wtf?) and perhaps a second equipment slot.

Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 297	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:20:00 - [11] - Quote LongLostLust wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: Caldari specialize in range, so no light slot to fit sniper rifle for scout of race sniper is made by? I would assume the hi/lo slot layout of caldari would be flipped from gallente like other suits. Amarr have balanced slots, but fewer of them on the assault. I would think scout would follow the pattern. more like 2 high, 2 low, 1 equipment for proto. If Amarr gets only 2 high, 2 low then it would be at a straight up disadvantage to Minmatar who gets 3 high 2 low. Perhaps if the Amarr scout could carry an extra equipment that would make up for it, though I'm sort of pushing for all scouts to get 2 equipment by default (not light frames, but scouts). I would also give every scout 2 equipment slots but my suggestion is that one must be an active scanner Forcing a player to have a specific item is not the New Eden way. I know the fear here is that we don't want scouts bleeding into the logi's role, but what would be so wrong about a scout with a repair tool and nanite injector? He'd have to stay close to the frontlines backing his guys up which would be hard with the low armor/shields and would make the profile dampening bonus essentially wasted. The logis would still be better at that.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege 12	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:33:00 - [12] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: You are way too darn generous with your equipment and high/low slots. I have more to say but I'll add it later. at the disadvantage of no light weapon, less defense, and less speed, that was the balance I was working towards. Real Variation in roles, and as it stands, scouts are forced into 100% combat, which is less than the choice for logis to go slayerbros or logibro. Scouts need to expand on non-combat roles and currently the two that are out don't allow that in the slightest, so the hope is for the other two to have more of a sabotage/scouting role that the other scouts who were not given the tools to fill in such.
LongLostLust Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 19	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:36:00 - [13] - Quote [/quote]Forcing a player to have a specific item is not the New Eden way. I know the fear here is that we don't want scouts bleeding into the logi's role, but what would be so wrong about a scout with a repair tool and nanite injector? He'd have to stay close to the frontlines backing his guys up which would be hard with the low armor/shields and would make the profile dampening bonus essentially wasted. The logis would still be better at that. [/quote] Honestly I'm not concerned with the New Eden Way as I don't come from EVE. Im concerned with balance. It would be fun packs of three scout shotty's busting in and hit and running groups with the ability to rev and rep after the battle is over though
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege 12	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:48:00 - [14] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Caldari specialize in range, so no light slot to fit sniper rifle for scout of race sniper is made by? I would assume the hi/lo slot layout of caldari would be flipped from gallente like other suits. Amarr have balanced slots, but fewer of them on the assault. I would think scout would follow the pattern. more like 2 high, 2 low, 1 equipment for proto. To your first paragraph, the lack of a sniper is a valid point, but the caldari bolt pistol will have some range on it and a charge. Again the lack of a sniper rifle is the only weak point I see with my setup lore wise. To your second paragraph, I would drop Dust on that assumption alone if that is where CCP is wanting it to go, as scout would be a misnomer to their real role weaker/faster assault knock off. With 1 equipment slot, you can expect no viable EWAR role. Scout rarity is due to the fact that they are neglected, and that is because they are missing severe content (Which is fine because CCP can't do everything at once) But for it to accept its place and its only option as a lessor combat unit with nothing else, then I would ask CCP to look at scouts on the whole due to the lack of any real role for scouts.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 297	Posted - 2013.05.18 21:49:00 - [15] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: You are way too darn generous with your equipment and high/low slots. I have more to say but I'll add it later. at the disadvantage of no light weapon, less defense, and less speed, that was the balance I was working towards. Real Variation in roles, and as it stands, scouts are forced into 100% combat, which is less than the choice for logis to go slayerbros or logibro. Scouts need to expand on non-combat roles and currently the two that are out don't allow that in the slightest, so the hope is for the other two to have more of a sabotage/scouting role that the other scouts who were not given the tools to fill in such. Yes, even with your proposed disadvantages the slots are way too much. Also please tell me how the Gallente logistics is a combat scout. At prototype they get 1 high and 4 lows. You can't really buff your shields with only one high slot, and if you buff your armor in the low slots the speed penalties defeat the purpose of a scout. The Gallente scout has no viable way to get any good amount of hitpoints and is thus not a combat oriented role. The abundance of low slots make it good for electronics since all those modules are low-powered (except precision enhancer). As it stands, Gallente scout is best suited for electronic warfare. The Minmatar scout on the other hand can shield tank a good bit and it a bit more combat oriented, so I see your point there.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege 13	Posted - 2013.05.18 23:53:00 - [16] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: You are way too darn generous with your equipment and high/low slots. I have more to say but I'll add it later. at the disadvantage of no light weapon, less defense, and less speed, that was the balance I was working towards. Real Variation in roles, and as it stands, scouts are forced into 100% combat, which is less than the choice for logis to go slayerbros or logibro. Scouts need to expand on non-combat roles and currently the two that are out don't allow that in the slightest, so the hope is for the other two to have more of a sabotage/scouting role that the other scouts who were not given the tools to fill in such. Yes, even with your proposed disadvantages the slots are way too much. Also please tell me how the Gallente logistics is a combat scout. At prototype they get 1 high and 4 lows. You can't really buff your shields with only one high slot, and if you buff your armor in the low slots the speed penalties defeat the purpose of a scout. The Gallente scout has no viable way to get any good amount of hitpoints and is thus not a combat oriented role. The abundance of low slots make it good for electronics since all those modules are low-powered (except precision enhancer). As it stands, Gallente scout is best suited for electronic warfare. The Minmatar scout on the other hand can shield tank a good bit and it a bit more combat oriented, so I see your point there. They will be introducing armor plates with no speed penalties, also as a gallante scout at the moment, the 4 lows help with setting up. As in better detection and stealth through mods allows you to get more back stab shotgun shots on mobs, which is why I play gal over min. Shield tanking and stealth tanking are combat roles that focus on having a higher kill to death ratio, the other scouts would rely on EWAR to earn points since lack of light weapons reduce killing potential.


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