DUST Search - The Shotguns of DUST.

Vera Fillon wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

In short, stick to the Basic Shotty, it is sadly the only option.

I disagree entirely, good thread otherwise but you need the understand that the breach shotguns are extremely specific to a user's preference. I use a dragonfly scout suit with a KR-17 (tier 4 breach shotgun) and complex damage mod... it's one of my favorite suits to use, and it's cheap!

The thing with the breach is that you can't try to "out damage" the person - most of the time you have to surprise them with a OHK. This doesn't have to mean going all stealth and whatnot, but it certainly means that you can't go head on head in attrition warfare a la ambush. Industrial maps and whatnot are great for breaching, because you can one shot almost everything - guaranteed if you hit them in the face. My favorite thing to do is to run out into the open, get shot a couple of times, and run around a corner acting scared. Wait for them to pursue the "easy kill" and blam sweet sweet justice.

When rounding corners offensively, it can be a hair raising affair knowing you could be killed almost instantly. It's like flying a stealth bomber in eve without the cloak (soonTM) - you are a glass cannon, and you have to treat it as such. Some of my most impressive games, including a recent solo orbital, came from a combination of Nova Knives and the KR-17.

I only have two pieces of advice when breaching: Fire first, and don't miss.

The second round in the breach shotgun is only really for taking out heavies - which are perfectly valid targets when scout shotgunning imho. It's really quite easy and fun to take down a heavy once you start a "dance of death" around their horrendous tracking speed. Anyway. I'm done. Shotguns rule, the end.

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Zero Harpuia WarRavens 465	Posted - 2013.05.17 13:31:00 - [1] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Since you've apparently hit prototype with them... Send me a mail with your thoughts on shotguns in general, OP? (Or make a thread and let me know, that's probably the better option) Okie dokie. The Shotgun. A can opener of mythic proportion. As someone what their 'realistic' gun in fiction is, and it's either this or a Sniper Rifle. With the magic occult energies that a shotgun channels at point blank it was the greatest melee option in the gaming world until CoD invented the OHK Knife. Now, to stop wasting your time and talk about the DUST Shotty. The shotgun here is an odd looking contraption best described as a riot shield combined with a centrifuge. You shove shells into the cylinder, pull the trigger, and your foe is perforated by a veritable tide of murderous fireflies. The armature is pretty much a giant space stock, and disappears whenever you go to smack someone. As for the actual handling of the Shotgun itself, and the meat that most of you actually clicked to see, it is a decent to good weapon. I'm sure you've seen just as many shotgunners rolling in the kills as you have fought ones that can't seem to kill you. The shotgun is best used in a point blank environment, 3 meters or less. At this range, the SLIGHTEST twitch is the difference between an awe inspiring OHK, and an emasculating miss with an alerted target. For this reason, I recommend a MOUSE. I use a DS3, and cannot count the number of times the precision of a mouse would have secured me kills. Furthermore, there is very little backup ammo for the shotgun, and even LESS for the (currently 2) alternate shotty types. Lastly, you need to lead the target ever-so-slightly depending on your latency, and must get used to the fact that your shotgun will decide to fire a puff of hot air and not register a meatshot just when you need it the most. The hit detection on the shotty is notoriously shoddy, ironic but true. When it comes to the variations on a shotgun, you have three kinds. Basic Shotguns have a damage rate of about 42 per pellet, 10 or so pellets, 24 backup ammo, and 8 shots can be loaded simultaneously. This shotty is THE shotty, and the one you'll find yourself using nine times out of ten. The second kind of shotgun is the Specialist Shotgun. Like all specialist weaponry it trades some ammo capacity for some fitting. Don't use this unless you really need the fitting, it is more expensive than standard, has less ammo so you'll need to glue yourself to the notoriously-short-lived supply depots, and generally less useless. If you need to save fitting, take off that damage modifier before you think about swapping guns. Finally, the Breach Shotgun. What used to be the only shotty that could land a decent hit is now the worst of the bunch. you get a 10% damage increase in exchange for having immense losses in fire rate, reload speed, ammo capacity, ammo in clip, and to top it off it's more expensive than standard. In short, stick to the Basic Shotty, it is sadly the only option. When it comes to engagements, you always want to flank. Having a designated attention grabber lets you get a reliable 30 kills a match, so run in a squad of buds. Against each weapon, we'll need different tactics... -You are unseen- Go for it. As long as the target isn't a Heavy or heavily shield tanked, you can one-shot the guy if you're practically dryhumping him. -HMG- Do Not Engage. If the Heavy is being harassed by your team, you can help finish him off, but on your own it takes the worst of the worst heavies to lose to you, as even standard HP ones take three full meatshots to die. -Mass Driver- Stay close and be ready to change directions on a dime. DO NOT JUMP unless you want him to get a free shot as he'll know exactly where you'll land. -Other Shotgunner- Rapidly swap from left and right just as he's about to fire. Most shotgunners fire as fast as they can, so use that simple timing. -Scrambler Rifle- Sway a decent amount, the semi-auto and extreme precision of the weapon will make it nigh impossible for someone to hit you once you've gotten closer than 15 meters. -Assault Rifle- Similar to the Scrambler, but you WILL take a few hits. If there is more than one alerted to you be ready for respawn. -TAR- Game over, this gun will wreck you. -Forge, Swarm, Sniper, Plasma, Laser- These people will all switch to their sidearm. -SMG- Just like the TAR, this gun will utterly wreck you, but only if you're 15-10 meters off. Further and it's too inaccurate, closer and the victim over-corrects. Unless he has a mouse, then you're boned. -Scrambler Pistol- Treat this like a Scrambler Rifle, but you can sprint in close when you see him go for the rather-often reloads. -Flaylock Pistol- Total crapshoot. Your survival depends on how good your opponent is at aiming this little behemoth. -Nove Knife- For once, backpedal instead of bum-rush. These fellows have a way better chance of hitting you than you do of them at less than 5 meters. it may take multiple shells to kill him without letting him hit you, but at least you won't have a gaping hole in your current clone. DEAR DEVS AND CSM: Shotgun issues are listed here. Armature disappears during melee animation. Shotgun proficiency reads 'decreases shotgun Rate of Fire.' This should be 'increases RoF' unless you just want to confuse us. Pellets will occasionally pass into the ether and not damage targets. Happens more often with the Breach. The variations are relatively useless when compared to the cheaper, more useable basic model.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 109	Posted - 2013.05.17 14:31:00 - [2] - Quote Man, you beat me to it! Excellent Thread. Bumping so DEV can have a look at this thread. +1 The only thing I disagree on is the HMG. They make up a large part of my kills. Too slow to save their own lives. But SHOULD ONLY BE TAKEN ON 1vs1! Some fights end faster then others, but it will end quick for you if his buddies show up. Stealth and shotty are what gives lone HMG nightmares. The MD, your very right about. DON'T JUMP. The forge gun... You ever felt the rush making them miss? I once got hit but not dead on. shredded my shields and left me 5% life. But for him.. he goofed.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 467	Posted - 2013.05.17 14:38:00 - [3] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Man, you beat me to it! Excellent Thread. Bumping so DEV can have a look at this thread. +1 The only thing I disagree on is the HMG. They make up a large part of my kills. Too slow to save their own lives. But SHOULD ONLY BE TAKEN ON 1vs1! Some fights end faster then others, but it will end quick for you if his buddies show up. Stealth and shotty are what gives lone HMG nightmares. The MD, your very right about. DON'T JUMP. The forge gun... You ever felt the rush making them miss? I once got hit but not dead on. shredded my shields and left me 5% life. But for him.. he goofed. Yeah, when it comes to HMGs I still get flashbacks from my TF2 Scout days. It's fine if you get them from the rear and counter their turning to stay behind them, but I find it helps if they have someone else to focus on so you can just go to town. As for the Forge, yeah. All these Hoovs thinking it's a super sniper rifle, it's fun to make them remember they aren't as good as they think they are. The Forge, not the Hoov.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 109	Posted - 2013.05.17 14:48:00 - [4] - Quote You know what else gives nightmares to someone who finds out a shot gun scout is wearing complex shields? Finding out he also wearing complex shield recharger. lol I can't stress enough, for scouts who can get one shot killed, the need to have those shields up before your enemy does.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 468	Posted - 2013.05.17 15:33:00 - [5] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: You know what else gives nightmares to someone who finds out a shot gun scout is wearing complex shields? Finding out he also wearing complex shield recharger. lol I can't stress enough, for scouts who can get one shot killed, the need to have those shields up before your enemy does. Correcta, take advantage of what you've got, and what scout has is a rapid shield recovery. That said, I run basic medium frames with my shotgun :p Waiting for all the other base suits to come out (Amarr Scout, Minmatar Heavy etc) to put anything more than 1 point in suits.
Rynoceros One-Armed Bandits 57	Posted - 2013.05.17 15:39:00 - [6] - Quote Fn' great thread, OP. A few months too late for my purposes, but thanks for putting together an eloquent collective on my favorite weapon. Although, I also disagree on the HMGs. My favorite target, besides snipers in hills, because they can wreck a charging squad of blues while being easy to flank and outmaneuver.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 469	Posted - 2013.05.17 16:00:00 - [7] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Fn' great thread, OP. A few months too late for my purposes, but thanks for putting together an eloquent collective on my favorite weapon. Although, I also disagree on the HMGs. My favorite target, besides snipers in hills, because they can wreck a charging squad of blues while being easy to flank and outmaneuver. My piece on them is about if they have noticed you outside of your effective range. If a HMG hoov has you spotted and you still try to rush him headon... not saying shotguns can't kill heavies, just sayin we can't wade through their HMG to shoot them in the face like at the build's beginning.
Colonel Born Defiant Kelkoons 0	Posted - 2013.05.17 16:06:00 - [8] - Quote Bump
Cpt Murd0ck Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 180	Posted - 2013.05.17 16:18:00 - [9] - Quote Great work, I love how you didn't shy away from the negatives. I would like a proto user from each weapon to do this in the same format and we could get a cool rock, paper... for each weapon. One thing with the HMG I like to do is if you are 1v1 with one, in a scout suit and have a bit of space sprint in a spiral towards him and only the best will connect with you trust me. (oddly the same tactic for speed tanking using transversal velocity as in EvE) Oh and nova knifers like SMGs too.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 470	Posted - 2013.05.17 16:25:00 - [10] - Quote Cpt Murd0ck wrote: Great work, I love how you didn't shy away from the negatives. I would like a proto user from each weapon to do this in the same format and we could get a cool rock, paper... for each weapon. One thing with the HMG I like to do is if you are 1v1 with one, in a scout suit and have a bit of space sprint in a spiral towards him and only the best will connect with you trust me. (oddly the same tactic for speed tanking using transversal velocity as in EvE) Oh and nova knifers like SMGs too. When it comes to spiral sprinting my Heavy bud always turns the other way to catch them, so I'd never thought to try it... damn my competent teammates making me think everyone is as smart as them!

Zero Harpuia WarRavens 474	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:05:00 - [11] - Quote Can someone who knows Nova Knives tell him that that guy made that shotgun thread he asked for? Thankies.
IamI3rian OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 62	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:08:00 - [12] - Quote Unless I'm wrong, the specialist shotgun was removed recently, no?
Cpt Murd0ck Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 180	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:15:00 - [13] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Cpt Murd0ck wrote: Great work, I love how you didn't shy away from the negatives. I would like a proto user from each weapon to do this in the same format and we could get a cool rock, paper... for each weapon. One thing with the HMG I like to do is if you are 1v1 with one, in a scout suit and have a bit of space sprint in a spiral towards him and only the best will connect with you trust me. (oddly the same tactic for speed tanking using transversal velocity as in EvE) Oh and nova knifers like SMGs too. When it comes to spiral sprinting my Heavy bud always turns the other way to catch them, so I'd never thought to try it... damn my competent teammates making me think everyone is as smart as them! First: know the masses are dumb and panic in true PvP situ's second:??? third : Profit and kills
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4256	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:24:00 - [14] - Quote Have you ever considered opening a butcher shop?
Vera Fillon D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:42:00 - [15] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: In short, stick to the Basic Shotty, it is sadly the only option. I disagree entirely, good thread otherwise but you need the understand that the breach shotguns are extremely specific to a user's preference. I use a dragonfly scout suit with a KR-17 (tier 4 breach shotgun) and complex damage mod... it's one of my favorite suits to use, and it's cheap! The thing with the breach is that you can't try to "out damage" the person - most of the time you have to surprise them with a OHK. This doesn't have to mean going all stealth and whatnot, but it certainly means that you can't go head on head in attrition warfare a la ambush. Industrial maps and whatnot are great for breaching, because you can one shot almost everything - guaranteed if you hit them in the face. My favorite thing to do is to run out into the open, get shot a couple of times, and run around a corner acting scared. Wait for them to pursue the "easy kill" and blam sweet sweet justice. When rounding corners offensively, it can be a hair raising affair knowing you could be killed almost instantly. It's like flying a stealth bomber in eve without the cloak (soonTM) - you are a glass cannon, and you have to treat it as such. Some of my most impressive games, including a recent solo orbital, came from a combination of Nova Knives and the KR-17. I only have two pieces of advice when breaching: Fire first, and don't miss. The second round in the breach shotgun is only really for taking out heavies - which are perfectly valid targets when scout shotgunning imho. It's really quite easy and fun to take down a heavy once you start a "dance of death" around their horrendous tracking speed. Anyway. I'm done. Shotguns rule, the end.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 475	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:53:00 - [16] - Quote Vera Fillon wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: In short, stick to the Basic Shotty, it is sadly the only option. I disagree entirely, good thread otherwise but you need the understand that the breach shotguns are extremely specific to a user's preference. I use a dragonfly scout suit with a KR-17 (tier 4 breach shotgun) and complex damage mod... it's one of my favorite suits to use, and it's cheap! The thing with the breach is that you can't try to "out damage" the person - most of the time you have to surprise them with a OHK. This doesn't have to mean going all stealth and whatnot, but it certainly means that you can't go head on head in attrition warfare a la ambush. Industrial maps and whatnot are great for breaching, because you can one shot almost everything - guaranteed if you hit them in the face. My favorite thing to do is to run out into the open, get shot a couple of times, and run around a corner acting scared. Wait for them to pursue the "easy kill" and blam sweet sweet justice. When rounding corners offensively, it can be a hair raising affair knowing you could be killed almost instantly. It's like flying a stealth bomber in eve without the cloak (soonTM) - you are a glass cannon, and you have to treat it as such. Some of my most impressive games, including a recent solo orbital, came from a combination of Nova Knives and the KR-17. I only have two pieces of advice when breaching: Fire first, and don't miss. The second round in the breach shotgun is only really for taking out heavies - which are perfectly valid targets when scout shotgunning imho. It's really quite easy and fun to take down a heavy once you start a "dance of death" around their horrendous tracking speed. Anyway. I'm done. Shotguns rule, the end. I understand this, but here's the thing. Everything you say the Breach os for the standard shotty does better, and for less fitting and ISK. The Breach isn't USELESS as in DEVOID OF USE, but it has other things with the same use, but better and easier useage. I'm gonna say use a few more times so it loses meaning. useuseuseuse. Anyway, Breach Shotgun needs a buff, either another shell, 18 shells instead of 12, faster reload, or a mix of them. Also, Burst Shotgun and Assault Shotgun. Every time I think of those, I cry alittle... mostly because LR still don't have any variations so who knows when Shotties will get filled out T-T
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:17:00 - [17] - Quote Great thread, OP! Found myself nodding after each and every point. I am in total agreement with your assessment. - Shotty GoBang
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:23:00 - [18] - Quote Side Note: OP doesn't specify, but he sounds like a fellow Scout. Aspiring shotgunners may find different engagement parameters coming from Logi or Assault Shotgunners, being that they have substantially more staying power. - Shotty
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4260	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:24:00 - [19] - Quote Nova Knife has been poked.
Aisha Ctarl The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 67	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:38:00 - [20] - Quote You forgot about the automatic Scrambler Rifle. It wrecks anyone who dares get too close.

Somin Krais Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 6	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:54:00 - [21] - Quote Your words are poetry that earn you the coveted +1
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 482	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:05:00 - [22] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Side Note: OP doesn't specify, but he sounds like a fellow Scout. Aspiring shotgunners may find different engagement parameters coming from Logi or Assault Shotgunners, given their superior staying power. I did mention it a few posts up, but I run a Skinweave Minmatar or a Standard Medium Minmatar Frame, neither of which have room for a sidearm so I had to become rather intimate with my primary of choice. You may have higher staying power, but it costs you speed. At the end of the day what matters is getting close enough to get a meatshot before your target can waste you, so HP or speed end up being a null game. Speed will get you farther against Heavies and precision weaponry, but Assault Rifles will eat your weaker frame. Larger suits will have to tackle with stealth in mind to get in close enough, and need to be more wary of semi-auto weapon systems because they are a larger and easier target.... maybe I should put some thought into this and add it to the OP, anyone else agree? Also, people rocking the PS Dashboard Dust loadout need to lay off the treats, Heavy Shotty is naught but a gag :p
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Unclaimed. 40	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:20:00 - [23] - Quote Still nothing better than rushing a heavy head on and manage to kill him with 3 well placed shots of a CRG-3!
Fremder V1 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:28:00 - [24] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Side Note: OP doesn't specify, but he sounds like a fellow Scout. Aspiring shotgunners may find different engagement parameters coming from Logi or Assault Shotgunners, given their superior staying power. So far, most of the time i run around in a basic medium Minmatar suite, with high and low slots dedicated to more shields and armor. I prefer the Breach, since i can take a few hits, and thus have time to bring myself into a good position for an OHK. So the reduced ammo isn't that much of a problem, if the aiming isn't off that day. The increased reach i find very helpfull. Allthought, i have to admit, it's mostly a matter of fun to me. Knowing that i better make every shot count... The Breach could use some love. If both shots are fired, but the opponent didn't die yet, the higher staying power off that suit can allow for a switch to the secondary weapon to finish him off, or for a retreat, if it seems too risky. Heavy's are still quite dangerous, if i can't suprise them. Usually it needs a good situation, to beat them without too much of a risk. For example a corner, that is close enough to him for optimal Breach range, but allows me to take cover for the moment inbetween the two shots... One example out of many, why situational awarness is so important with a shotgun, if one wants to be more than a one hit wonder. Ah, something else, which can help with that sort of suitsetup and direct 1 vs 1 confrontations: Holding the secondary weapon in hand, until in OHK range. Often enough it's easier this way to get closer to an opponent, while running from cover to cover or doging around, since less people seeing a real threat in you, without that scary and easy to identify shotgun, and thus not circle back while firing their AR's. Many probably think you are just another lunatic, until it's too late.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 485	Posted - 2013.05.18 01:45:00 - [25] - Quote Minor alterations to OP.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 485	Posted - 2013.05.18 15:31:00 - [26] - Quote Ran out of characters in OP, more will be added here. =Advanced Strategies- Pull out your sidearm and use it to convince your enemy you are out of primary ammo or just don't weild primaries. SMG works best. As the enemy moves in for the kill, duck behind some cover and swap to your Shotgun. (Courtesy of Fremder)
Lilah Silverstone The Arrow Project 26	Posted - 2013.05.18 15:54:00 - [27] - Quote Bump from a fellow shotgun scout o7
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 487	Posted - 2013.05.19 18:03:00 - [28] - Quote Added 'Shotty in the Doorjam'
Zero Harpuia WarRavens 488	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:50:00 - [29] - Quote Added 'Shotgun Ninja'. Have also yet to see Nova Knife T-T
Calamity Jane II Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 83	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:07:00 - [30] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: Side Note: OP doesn't specify, but he sounds like a fellow Scout. Aspiring shotgunners may find different engagement parameters coming from Logi or Assault Shotgunners, given their superior staying power. I did mention it a few posts up, but I run a Skinweave Minmatar or a Standard Medium Minmatar Frame, neither of which have room for a sidearm so I had to become rather intimate with my primary of choice. You may have higher staying power, but it costs you speed. At the end of the day what matters is getting close enough to get a meatshot before your target can waste you, so HP or speed end up being a null game. Speed will get you farther against Heavies and precision weaponry, but Assault Rifles will eat your weaker frame. Larger suits will have to tackle with stealth in mind to get in close enough, and need to be more wary of semi-auto weapon systems because they are a larger and easier target.... maybe I should put some thought into this and add it to the OP, anyone else agree? Also, people rocking the PS Dashboard Dust loadout need to lay off the treats, Heavy Shotty is naught but a gag :p I can help you with the logistics suit shotgun perspective if need be. im sure i have a large frame that gets shot at a ton. :)



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