DUST Search - Efficacy (No Idea/Doesn't Make Sense)

Altina McAlterson wrote:

Warpfiend Thanos wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective.

is that for Armor and shields as well?! That can't be

I know this affects the penalties to movement from plates though ie.
1st complex armor -10% move
2nd complex armor -8,7% move
3rd complex armor -5,6% move
etc...

Those bonuses should be multiplied together with the stacking penalty applied, not added. The second module is not 8.7% more, it's 9.6% more.

1.1 * ( 1 + ( .1 * .87))=19.6

Granted that is how it normally works. Last time I looked at the numbers for the movement penatly were a bit off but I'll take another look.

Just wanted to point out that you always multiply the bonus from individual modules and individual skills, although the skill levels themselves are added together.

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DRE PrEaCh Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack 0	Posted - 2013.05.16 03:30:00 - [1] - Quote Hey guys, I looked up the word Efficacy: Efficacy is the capacity to produce an effect. It has different specific meanings in different fields. In medicine, it is the ability of an intervention or drug to produce a desired effect. [Wikipedia] Now i'm looking at Armor Plating skill: Unlocks access to armor plate dropsuit modules: +2% to armor plate module efficacy per level. Now looking at the Basic Armor Plates Low Powered Module: Module Usage: Passive Meta Level: 1 Armor Bonus: 65 HP Movement Penalty: -3% So where does this efficacy come in? I'm getting the 65HP Bonus armor... What's the point of efficacy? lol Thanks
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 112	Posted - 2013.05.16 04:03:00 - [2] - Quote The Armor Bonus is what's effected by the skill. Instead of 65HP, with 1 lvl in the skill you will have: 65 * 1.02 = 66.3 (can't confirm, but usually rounded down to 66) Now the problem is that when you do the "show info" on the module, that doesn't show the applied skills (or other effects) But one place you can see it is when you are about to equip the module. Select it from the list (to an empty slot), but don't press X yet to confirm. Instead press Square for "stats". You will see the old and the new armor values of your dropsuit side by side now. Compare the difference, and it should show the value with the skills applied.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2304	Posted - 2013.05.16 04:28:00 - [3] - Quote Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective.
Warpfiend Thanos Forsaken Immortals Gentlemen's Agreement 51	Posted - 2013.05.16 05:37:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective. is that for Armor and shields as well?! That can't be I know this affects the penalties to movement from plates though ie. 1st complex armor -10% move 2nd complex armor -8,7% move 3rd complex armor -5,6% move etc...
DRE PrEaCh Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack 0	Posted - 2013.05.16 06:16:00 - [5] - Quote Awesome, that makes sense now. I love efficacy skills now :D
Buster Friently Rosen Association 443	Posted - 2013.05.16 06:48:00 - [6] - Quote Warpfiend Thanos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective. is that for Armor and shields as well?! That can't be I know this affects the penalties to movement from plates though ie. 1st complex armor -10% move 2nd complex armor -8,7% move 3rd complex armor -5,6% move etc... No, it isn't. It only applies to percentage type modules, and usually, only to the >1 type modules. In most cases, there will be a statement in the description that says "stacking penalties apply to this module" or something to that effect.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 658	Posted - 2013.05.16 08:28:00 - [7] - Quote More efficacy = greater effect, or effectiveness. Increasing the efficacy of a module means it produces more of an effect. e.g. If a module provides a shield HP bonus, increasing the efficacy of that module increases the effect it produces, which means more shield HP bonus.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2306	Posted - 2013.05.16 13:11:00 - [8] - Quote Warpfiend Thanos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective. is that for Armor and shields as well?! That can't be I know this affects the penalties to movement from plates though ie. 1st complex armor -10% move 2nd complex armor -8,7% move 3rd complex armor -5,6% move etc... Not all modules have this restriction. Some modules are allowed to stack without penalties which is built in by CCP.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 459	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:49:00 - [9] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Not all modules have this restriction. Some modules are allowed to stack without penalties which is built in by CCP. These Mercs are using standard EVE percentages. Nothing like those numbers has ever been noted nor stated by the Devs. Most stacking doesn't penalties don't actually exist or they are not discoverable by us. All the armor/shield components add up without them. As for Efficacy is it simply the wrong word. This is probably because of the language barrier. Efficacy is related to medical terminology. There is a limit as to how much of a medicine one can take and have it increase its efficacy. More than X might provide no additional benefit or it might prove fatal. Additionally taking medication over time, like many sleeping aids, will cause them to lose their efficacy as they will be less effective. This is a double edged sword as one cannot take more because of efficacy limitations but as they lose efficacy one would think they need to take more. The real solution when that happens is the patient needs to be put on a different medication. Efficiency might convey what they want or even effectiveness. Either would be a better choice than one chosen from the medical profession. It has been commented on and ignored by CCP in the past. No change is anticipated.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2325	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:59:00 - [10] - Quote @Kal Efficacy is not limited to the medical field. As if the medical field had any monopoly on the word. https://www.google.com/search?q=define+efficacy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-nightly&channel=fflb Quote: ef-+fi-+ca-+cy /-êefik+Ös-ô/ Noun The ability to produce a desired or intended result. Synonyms effectiveness - efficiency - effect - virtue It's a term that is still applicable and suffers very little in terms of language barriers. I am able to understand the context just fine. Telling me that the efficacy of a module is boosted by a certain amount is like telling me that a certain constant is increased by a variable in a mathematical formula. You can also tell me that the effectiveness of a module is boosted by a certain amount and it will still mean the same thing. Again, the medical profession has no monopoly on the term "efficacy". You just hear it more often in the medical field.

Kai Wulf Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:47:00 - [11] - Quote In other words; don't do drugs kids!
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 521	Posted - 2013.05.18 11:26:00 - [12] - Quote Warpfiend Thanos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective. is that for Armor and shields as well?! That can't be I know this affects the penalties to movement from plates though ie. 1st complex armor -10% move 2nd complex armor -8,7% move 3rd complex armor -5,6% move etc... Those bonuses should be multiplied together with the stacking penalty applied, not added. The second module is not 8.7% more, it's 9.6% more. 1.1 * ( 1 + ( .1 * .87))=19.6 Granted that is how it normally works. Last time I looked at the numbers for the movement penatly were a bit off but I'll take another look. Just wanted to point out that you always multiply the bonus from individual modules and individual skills, although the skill levels themselves are added together.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 114	Posted - 2013.05.18 17:44:00 - [13] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Warpfiend Thanos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Don't forget to account for stacking penalties. First module is 100% effective, second module of same thing it's about 87% effective, third module of the same thing is about 56% effective while forth module is about 26% effective. is that for Armor and shields as well?! That can't be I know this affects the penalties to movement from plates though ie. 1st complex armor -10% move 2nd complex armor -8,7% move 3rd complex armor -5,6% move etc... Those bonuses should be multiplied together with the stacking penalty applied, not added. The second module is not 8.7% more, it's 9.6% more. 1.1 * ( 1 + ( .1 * .87))=19.6 Granted that is how it normally works. Last time I looked at the numbers for the movement penatly were a bit off but I'll take another look. Just wanted to point out that you always multiply the bonus from individual modules and individual skills, although the skill levels themselves are added together. What he said
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries 148	Posted - 2013.05.19 11:10:00 - [14] - Quote can someone explain this to me like 5 (without numbers) does the efficacy mean the armour plate might say it is 65hp but in reality its 60hp say? cause that doesnt make sense to the drop suit output or does it add an extra say 10% if you get it to level 5 and it becomes 71 hp? (and just to be sure - it has nothing to do with cpu/ pg fittings) thanks for your help @hydraslav - your fitting tool is brilliant.
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 117	Posted - 2013.05.19 12:47:00 - [15] - Quote xAckie wrote: can someone explain this to me like 5 (without numbers) does the efficacy mean the armour plate might say it is 65hp but in reality its 60hp say? cause that doesnt make sense to the drop suit output or does it add an extra say 10% if you get it to level 5 and it becomes 71 hp? (and just to be sure - it has nothing to do with cpu/ pg fittings) thanks for your help @hydraslav - your fitting tool is brilliant. Cheers ;) Efficacy by itself doesn't mean better or worse. Skills increase efficacy, so like you said, at lvl5 of skill it adds 10%, from 65HP it becomes 71HP Stacking Penalty (when fitting more than one module), decreases efficacy, so second module would give less bonus than the first. However note: armor plates don't have stacking penalty so you don't need to worry about that.
Lowkiie KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.05.23 06:39:00 - [16] - Quote So am I reading correctly? CCP has not given us any information on numbers? The vital info that we need to make the perfect loadout for ourselves? Really? I do belive that if truly is the case, then we need to get on their case about it...
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 529	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:15:00 - [17] - Quote Lowkiie wrote: So am I reading correctly? CCP has not given us any information on numbers? The vital info that we need to make the perfect loadout for ourselves? Really? I do belive that if truly is the case, then we need to get on their case about it... Yea they have, they just favor very poor word choice. You have to learn to ignore what they actually said and try to figure out what they were trying to say. Skill increases efifficacy by 5% per level. You have level III. That's 15%. So a plate that gives you 60 armor normally now gives you 15% more: Which would be 69 armor per plate.


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