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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
Orion Empire
48
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Posted - 2013.05.15 20:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
150 WP for stopping a virus upload.
Stopping the virus upload takes longer than hacking a captured objective and there is more risk involved. This would deter team members from sitting and waiting for an objective to turn so they can hack it for the points and give them incentive to stop the upload and keep the objective blue.
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Taurion Bruni
Nightingale Logistics Pty Ltd
19
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Posted - 2013.05.15 20:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
there is a balance that has to be kept, for example, the fact that you have prevented 100 points to be given to the hacker and additional points to anyone who assisted in the hack. by awarding yourself an extra 150WP, you have created a 300 point difference in the total WP, enough to create a major unbalance (orbitals) you will also have people waiting to let them hack for these points anyway, as they might not shoot them on sight |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
Orion Empire
48
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:there is a balance that has to be kept, for example, the fact that you have prevented 100 points to be given to the hacker and additional points to anyone who assisted in the hack. by awarding yourself an extra 150WP, you have created a 300 point difference in the total WP, enough to create a major unbalance (orbitals) you will also have people waiting to let them hack for these points anyway, as they might not shoot them on sight
Your point of imbalance is moot.
1. As of now if I stop the upload the reds do not get the WP for the hack. I get nothing. No one wins.
2. I'm trying to defeat the enemy not help them by letting them have the WP for hacking the objective then immediately hacking the objective back.
3.I should be rewarded more WP for stopping the virus upload because it contributes to victory. |
HAICD
Dogs of War Gaming
DARKSTAR ARMY
9
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree but not 150 WP maybe just 50 |
Terry Webber
Gothic Wars Consortium
74
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
This has been asked for A LOT but I agree that it is needed. I also agree with HAICD that the warpoints should be a little lower than 150. I think it should be 100. |
Tarsious Jones
Regime Of Shadow Marines
18
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Posted - 2013.05.15 22:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
I believe a dev mentioned interrupting hacks could grant wp down the line, when they add all the other wp rewards currently missing from the game, such as mcru spawns. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
Orion Empire
50
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Posted - 2013.05.15 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:This has been asked for A LOT but I agree that it is needed. I also agree with HAICD that the warpoints should be a little lower than 150. I think it should be 100.
The only reason I suggest more WP for it is because it is higher risk. It takes much longer and quite often must be done amidst a fire fight leaving the hacker vulnerable to attack. |
Donnerwerk
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
8
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Terry Webber wrote:This has been asked for A LOT but I agree that it is needed. I also agree with HAICD that the warpoints should be a little lower than 150. I think it should be 100. The only reason I suggest more WP for it is because it is higher risk. It takes much longer and quite often must be done amidst a fire fight leaving the hacker vulnerable to attack.
we got a hack guy in the corp. he counterhacks stuff as fast as i hack stuff... so taking longer is just a skill question.
still i would like to see WP for a counterhack. Too many ppl wait for the point to switch instead of counterhacking it.
80 WP maybe and 40 WP for anyone who helped
still +1 for the request |
Jax Saurian
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
35
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Posted - 2013.05.16 00:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
The counter hack should be 100 WP because you:
1. Stopped the enemy from getting 100 WP
2. Stopped the enemy from capturing the objective which gets you a sense of accomplishment
3. By stopping the hack from going through you save time on waiting for it to turn, hacking it back, and then defending the area
yes there is more risk but only if you don't have people watching you or helping you hack or clearing out the area. (so don't go at it solo) |
Stalken Pathfinder
Shadow Company HQ
11
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Posted - 2013.06.15 23:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
All great points so far, this topic needs more discussion and an eventual fix.
+1
I would add that not getting any WP for counter hacking actually gives incentive to allow the hack to go through and then hacking it back. Which adds another 200 WP to both sides plus up to 2 Assist bonuses on each side. But aside from that it gives players motivation, albeit of the misguided variety, to help the other team in order to help themselves. Therefore at a bare minimum a nominal amount of WP for counter-hacks is required to keep everybody motivated to help their team and only their team. Those who help the team should be rewarded individually for doing so.
Lets keep the constructive discussion on this subject going! |
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
227
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Posted - 2013.06.15 23:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
this is already being looked at by ccp |
Luper024
Shadow Company HQ
2
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Posted - 2013.06.15 23:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 for this idea 100 WP should be enough for a counter hack. |
OokamiSoul
Shadow Company HQ
6
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 But I think it should be 50 or 75 WP not 100 |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1156
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Posted - 2013.06.16 04:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
This is coming, however there is no current ETA or specific WP value assigned at this time.
Cheers,
Cross |
WeapondigitX V7
Planetary Response Organization
14
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Posted - 2013.06.16 05:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
+1 for this idea.
We should also get 10 bonus points for killing someone trying to hack an objective. |
KaTaLy5t-87
Shadow Company HQ
45
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Posted - 2013.06.17 08:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 Although I do think 50 or 75 would be a fairer value instead of 150.
I counter hack regardless of not getting points but getting points for it would be nice  |
DeadlyAztec11
Strong-Arm
495
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Posted - 2013.06.17 09:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Booyakasha +1 Ladies! |
Adelia Lafayette
DUST University
Ivy League
70
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 14:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
+1 I'd even be happy with 5 wp if you want to start it low and bump it up 2 years later. |
Paper Cutter
DUST University
Ivy League
26
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Posted - 2013.06.18 14:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have to agree, 150 is a little high, 75 sounds like the highest it should be, 50 sounds best. It opens the door for serious boosting so the lower you keep the reward, the less likely it is to be taken advantage of. |
Gaelon Thrace
DUST University
Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2013.06.18 14:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
The only time I've deliberately waited for the hack to complete before hacking it back was when I knew it would complete before I could counter hack it. Trying to counter hack it would have just slowed it down and made me wait longer before I could hack it back, which I do much faster anyway. I don't need to get WP to have incentive to disrupt a hack, but a few WP for doing so would be nice considering it's just as important as hacking it in the first place. 150 seems a bit excessive though. 75-80 sounds reasonable. |
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Fox Gaden
DUST University
Ivy League
481
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Posted - 2013.06.18 14:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
It should be noted that while a Null cannon is being hacked it is still shooting at an MCC. So if you wait for the other teamGÇÖs hack to go through so you can get 100 WP to hack it back, then the whole time it is being hacked back it is shooting at your MCC. By counter hacking, you prevent it from shooting at your MCC. In a close match those few Null cannon shots can be the difference between winning and losing.
It should also be noted that counter hacking takes longer, and you only have a limited time to do it. If you have to take time to clear the Reds out before you start counter hacking, then you often do not have time to complete a counter hack. I would say, given that it takes longer (thus is more dangerous) and is only available for a limited time, I think a larger reward than a normal hack would be appropriate. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University
Ivy League
481
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Can anyone give me a good reason why the WP reward for Counter Hacking should be less than the WP for a normal Hack?
This is a serious question, because I canGÇÖt figure out a good reason for it being less, yet a lot of people are suggesting it should be. |
Stalken Pathfinder
Shadow Company HQ
11
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Posted - 2013.06.18 17:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Can anyone give me a good reason why the WP reward for Counter Hacking should be less than the WP for a normal Hack?
This is a serious question, because I canGÇÖt figure out a good reason for it being less, yet a lot of people are suggesting it should be.
Well there are a couple different schools of thought but I think the main reason is to ensure that everything stays "balanced".
Also the two mechanics are a bit different. When you hack an objective there is a period of time during which the enemy can negate your reward. When you counter-hack it's like hacking a supply depot insofar as you would get the points instantly.
Right now the reward system encourages offensive hacking. There is no down-side to hacking an objective regardless of whether or not you are actually going to be able to secure it and hold it. Once rewards are introduced for counter-hacking, there would be a down-side (as there should be up-sides and down-sides to everything) but there could also be situations in which this reward would actually unbalance the game in the opposite direction. In other words, create too much of a potential down-side and discourage offensive hacking.
For example: Team 1 hacks objective A from Team 2 five times and each time Team 2 counter-hacks.
In the current system, nobody gets any points from the above exchange. Once a reward is implemented, Team 2 would have 5x the number of WP per counter hack. This certainly increases the incentive to defend objectives. But this must be done without creating a negative incentive to hack an objective in the first place.
In other words, if the reward for counter hack is 100 WP than Team 1 might give up after two attempts to hack objective A knowing that if they attempt and fail 3 more times the reward that they will have effectively "handed" the enemy will out-weigh the reward their team will get if they successfully hack the objective. If the reward for counter hacks is only 50 WP however, the number of successes required to cover the number of failures is reduced.
None of this even takes into account getting assists for hacks or counter-hacks and the additional points those add into the mix. But I am not a numbers guy so perhaps someone who is better with them can delve into this issue a little deeper and perhaps field a more convincing answer.
Personally, I am of the opinion that right now the system is unbalanced and a nominal reward for counter--hacking must be introduced in order to create balance. That being said, due to the reasons listed above and others I didn't get into, I also agree that making the reward too high would cause unbalance in the opposite direction.
I think the magic number here is 50 WP +/- 25. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
838
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
25-50WP for counter hack seems about right.
CCP should take care to set a timer on each cannon similar to rep bonuses.
A terminal should stop giving WP if hacked/counter-hacked a certain number of times during a certain period of time to prevent abuse.
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Revelations 514
Red Star.
EoN.
68
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Posted - 2013.06.18 18:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
A whole bag of yes for this. I like +100 for the number. |
Eurydice Itzhak
Militaires Sans Jeux
82
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Posted - 2013.06.18 19:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Can anyone give me a good reason why the WP reward for Counter Hacking should be less than the WP for a normal Hack?
This is a serious question, because I canGÇÖt figure out a good reason for it being less, yet a lot of people are suggesting it should be.
Because they are ********.
100 is a good number for counter hacking.
150 is a bit excessive. The only thing to give 150 WP right now is destroying enemy RDVs.
EDIT: To anyone thinking it should be less because of the potential "downside" to "giving" WP away...
WP doesn't win games. 1 extra tick on the MCC wins games. |
Justin Aim
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
What about 50 for hacking plus another 50 when the hack completes? Then a counter-hack can be 50 as well. It'll make fighters stick around to defend for those extra 50 points. It's got balance but the attacker will come out on top if they stick with it.
There's opportunity for exploitation in that scenario but that possibility is already there now. |
darkiller240
INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION
4
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
411
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
It has to be equal to the number of points you get from waiting and hacking it back... or people are still incentivized to wait it out.
Also... if you start counter hacking it should stop the transition timer so you don't enter into a situation where it aborts your counter hack cause it had finished before you could get it off.
Also (again)... if an objective is contested it shouldn't still be shooting at the MCC. It should do nothing until its back to an active side, one way or another.
Some of the many reasons I don't care to play skirmish/dom in this game. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
478
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Posted - 2013.06.18 20:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Taurion Bruni wrote:there is a balance that has to be kept, for example, the fact that you have prevented 100 points to be given to the hacker and additional points to anyone who assisted in the hack. by awarding yourself an extra 150WP, you have created a 300 point difference in the total WP, enough to create a major unbalance (orbitals) you will also have people waiting to let them hack for these points anyway, as they might not shoot them on sight
How exactly is this a problem?
They get points for hacking, and you get more points for stopping the hack.
If they want the hack, they better make sure no counter hacks it, and we need people to STOP virus uploads, because a null cannon is still hostile/friendly while it's under contest.
150 WP is good. If people work for WP, at least they are doing it on top of the null cannon terminals like they should be. |
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