DUST Search - [Feedback] Rapid Reload Skill

Stephen Rao wrote:

BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote:

I can see why all of you would want rapid reload to affect all light/heavy/sidearm weapons within their specified weapon category; however, by doing so, it defeats the CCP's purpose of making your character specialized within a niche or role. I seems a bit overpowered to me that just one stat would affect 5 completely different guns (shotgun, assalt rifle, sniper rifle, scramber rifle and plasma cannon) similar to how just one stat allows you to use 3 completely different types of grenades. By making the rapid reload universal, you effectively make the stat a mandatory stat to invest in (like pre patch sharpshooter). I could only imagine, everyone with rapid reload wil effectively turn the game into a lone wolf-n-rush game which is what ccp is trying to stay away from (at least i think)

I personally like the idea that each weapon has their own rapid reload, it effectively forces players to specialize in one area of warfare instead of branching out into a god-like one-man-army. However, i do feel he tier for rapid reload is too high. IMHO, just place rapid reload into teir 2 weapon training alongside operation and capacity and it should be fine.

I agree with what you're saying, I don't think it should be a universal skill and I like that people have to specialize more now than they did before.

I disagree with needing to get so deep into the skill tree to access Rapid Reload, and I disagree that it is a 6x skill if it's only giving you a 3% bonus to reload speed. At a 6x multiplier, it costs more than the raw damage given by Proficiency at a comparably cheap 5x.

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Aquinarius Zoltanus The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:08:00 - [1] - Quote I feel that there are multiple things wrong with this skill in Uprising. First of all, why did you change it so that we have to train in it for each weapon individually? That really ups the SP it takes to be effective with any particular weapon, and lowers people's ability to use multiple different weapons. What was really so wrong with Rapid Reload applying to all Light/Heavy weapons or Sidearms? But, well the part that really peeves me, is that Rapid Reload is now a 6x skill. The bonus you receive remains unchanged, 3% faster per level, but now it costs dramatically more SP to train. I've put 2 levels into it for my Mass Driver (where I feel it's a necessity), and now I've noticed that my next level with cost me over 450,000 SP! That is multiple weeks worth of saving SP just so I can reload 3% faster. If I'm going to hold back and save that long, I want to get something exciting for my SP. This feels like an insane amount of grinding for something so minor. I know you want the game to have some longevity, but this is taking it too far. For the love of all that is holy, please bring Rapid Reload back down to maybe 2x or 3x SP.
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 46	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:27:00 - [2] - Quote entirely agreed on this one. i use MD as well, and that reload is a sure fire way to end up dead in the middle of a brawl. the fact it's so deep seated into the tree makes me rather upset when thinking about it, since all it does is speed reload times by a bit, and a barely noticable bit at that. when maxed it doesnt even shave off a full second on reload. that is rather bad if you ask me, so they should probably either drop the sp it costs,and where it is in the tree OR give us 5% instead of 3% so we can shave off a full second on reloads by the time it's maxed
Drake435 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 51	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:31:00 - [3] - Quote This is one change CCP done goofed. A skill such as rapid reload is not at all game-breaking so why make it so SP intensive? You make it so that for each weapon we want to have faster reloads, we have to go through a TON of SP before we get the weapon reloads we want .
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 65	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:42:00 - [4] - Quote THAT WAS THE POINT YOU IDIOTS! THEY WANT YOU TO PICK ONE FIT AND GET THE BEST STUFF YOU CAN ON THAT FIT! WHAY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 47	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:48:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: THAT WAS THE POINT YOU IDIOTS! THEY WANT YOU TO PICK ONE FIT AND GET THE BEST STUFF YOU CAN ON THAT FIT! WHAY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? i wonder what has you so angry Godin.... we dont expect to get all of it easy... just the side long things shouldn't be so SP intensive when they dont game break
Stephen Rao Verboten XXI 7	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:51:00 - [6] - Quote Agreed, 6x multiplier is absurd for a 3% faster reload. I like the fact that they individualized the skills so that it takes more SP to be good at multiple weapons, but I have no idea what they were thinking when they ramped up the cost per level (as they already increased the overall SP cost by making you have to invest into each weapon) without making the skill more valuable to the particular weapon. Godin Thekiller wrote: THAT WAS THE POINT YOU IDIOTS! THEY WANT YOU TO PICK ONE FIT AND GET THE BEST STUFF YOU CAN ON THAT FIT! WHAY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? Thanks for contributing a post to this discussion, but I can't understand what you're saying. If it wasn't in all caps it might be readable...
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 66	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:52:00 - [7] - Quote I'm angry because you fools are complaining about arbitrary things when there's 22 vehicles which is so broken it's stupid, then CCP somehow, they listen to you.
Stephen Rao Verboten XXI 7	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:55:00 - [8] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm angry because you fools are complaining about arbitrary things when there's 22 vehicles which is so broken it's stupid, then CCP somehow, they listen to you. Than make a thread and put valuable feedback and generate good discussion. Trying to derail and berate discussions that don't have anything to do with what you want looked at will get you nowhere.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 67	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:01:00 - [9] - Quote So, do what I have been doing for the last 6 months? **** that.
Aquinarius Zoltanus The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:11:00 - [10] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm angry because you fools are complaining about arbitrary things when there's 22 vehicles which is so broken it's stupid, then CCP somehow, they listen to you. Please don't try to derail my thread. I made this because it is an issue, and one that could be dealt with without a major change to game balance. There are plenty of vehicle threads already, with new repetitive ones posted every day. Please post there if that's what you'd like to discuss. But I made this because I didn't see anyone discussing and I believe it is a serious design mistake.

Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 48	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:14:00 - [11] - Quote agreed Zoltanus, because with different weapons they should have some differing reload speed bonuses... ARs can stick with what they have, Heavy weapons could each have their own values, like the FG getting 4% instead of 3%.... hell, there's alot of useful parts to discuss on this
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 68	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:15:00 - [12] - Quote Blam! and Company is clearly skipping them, as they think they've fixed them yet. Therefore, I will post in every thread I feel like untill we go noticed.
BuTtHuRtPEepZ Raging Pack of Homos 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:40:00 - [13] - Quote I can see why all of you would want rapid reload to affect all light/heavy/sidearm weapons within their specified weapon category; however, by doing so, it defeats the CCP's purpose of making your character specialized within a niche or role. I seems a bit overpowered to me that just one stat would affect 5 completely different guns (shotgun, assalt rifle, sniper rifle, scramber rifle and plasma cannon) similar to how just one stat allows you to use 3 completely different types of grenades. By making the rapid reload universal, you effectively make the stat a mandatory stat to invest in (like pre patch sharpshooter). I could only imagine, everyone with rapid reload wil effectively turn the game into a lone wolf-n-rush game which is what ccp is trying to stay away from (at least i think) I personally like the idea that each weapon has their own rapid reload, it effectively forces players to specialize in one area of warfare instead of branching out into a god-like one-man-army. However, i do feel he tier for rapid reload is too high. IMHO, just place rapid reload into teir 2 weapon training alongside operation and capacity and it should be fine.
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 48	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:45:00 - [14] - Quote BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: I can see why all of you would want rapid reload to affect all light/heavy/sidearm weapons within their specified weapon category; however, by doing so, it defeats the CCP's purpose of making your character specialized within a niche or role. I seems a bit overpowered to me that just one stat would affect 5 completely different guns (shotgun, assalt rifle, sniper rifle, scramber rifle and plasma cannon) similar to how just one stat allows you to use 3 completely different types of grenades. By making the rapid reload universal, you effectively make the stat a mandatory stat to invest in (like pre patch sharpshooter). I could only imagine, everyone with rapid reload wil effectively turn the game into a lone wolf-n-rush game which is what ccp is trying to stay away from (at least i think) I personally like the idea that each weapon has their own rapid reload, it effectively forces players to specialize in one area of warfare instead of branching out into a god-like one-man-army. However, i do feel he tier for rapid reload is too high. IMHO, just place rapid reload into teir 2 weapon training alongside operation and capacity and it should be fine. ..you sir should get some Aurum jsut for this argument. its true, my main issue is that its so SP intensive jsut to get... i'd jsut like to see it down to a smaller training multiplier, and mabybe a bit lower down on the tree is all
Buster Friently Rosen Association 429	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:50:00 - [15] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: I feel that there are multiple things wrong with this skill in Uprising. First of all, why did you change it so that we have to train in it for each weapon individually? That really ups the SP it takes to be effective with any particular weapon, and lowers people's ability to use multiple different weapons. What was really so wrong with Rapid Reload applying to all Light/Heavy weapons or Sidearms? But, well the part that really peeves me, is that Rapid Reload is now a 6x skill. The bonus you receive remains unchanged, 3% faster per level, but now it costs dramatically more SP to train. I've put 2 levels into it for my Mass Driver (where I feel it's a necessity), and now I've noticed that my next level with cost me over 450,000 SP! That is multiple weeks worth of saving SP just so I can reload 3% faster. If I'm going to hold back and save that long, I want to get something exciting for my SP. This feels like an insane amount of grinding for something so minor. I know you want the game to have some longevity, but this is taking it too far. For the love of all that is holy, please bring Rapid Reload back down to maybe 2x or 3x SP. So your entire complaint boils down to it taking more SP? Deal with it.
Stephen Rao Verboten XXI 7	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:52:00 - [16] - Quote BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: I can see why all of you would want rapid reload to affect all light/heavy/sidearm weapons within their specified weapon category; however, by doing so, it defeats the CCP's purpose of making your character specialized within a niche or role. I seems a bit overpowered to me that just one stat would affect 5 completely different guns (shotgun, assalt rifle, sniper rifle, scramber rifle and plasma cannon) similar to how just one stat allows you to use 3 completely different types of grenades. By making the rapid reload universal, you effectively make the stat a mandatory stat to invest in (like pre patch sharpshooter). I could only imagine, everyone with rapid reload wil effectively turn the game into a lone wolf-n-rush game which is what ccp is trying to stay away from (at least i think) I personally like the idea that each weapon has their own rapid reload, it effectively forces players to specialize in one area of warfare instead of branching out into a god-like one-man-army. However, i do feel he tier for rapid reload is too high. IMHO, just place rapid reload into teir 2 weapon training alongside operation and capacity and it should be fine. I agree with what you're saying, I don't think it should be a universal skill and I like that people have to specialize more now than they did before. I disagree with needing to get so deep into the skill tree to access Rapid Reload, and I disagree that it is a 6x skill if it's only giving you a 3% bonus to reload speed. At a 6x multiplier, it costs more than the raw damage given by Proficiency at a comparably cheap 5x.
Aquinarius Zoltanus The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2013.05.14 02:00:00 - [17] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: So your entire complaint boils down to it taking more SP? Deal with it. My point is that I am a dedicated player and have bought multiple Merc Packs, but there's no way I'm spending weeks of my life grinding in order to get 3% better reload. The way the skill is now I will never train in it again because it's simply not worth the time invested, and not balanced versus the benefit you get from putting SP into other skills.
BuTtHuRtPEepZ Raging Pack of Homos 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 02:01:00 - [18] - Quote Stephen Rao wrote: BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: I can see why all of you would want rapid reload to affect all light/heavy/sidearm weapons within their specified weapon category; however, by doing so, it defeats the CCP's purpose of making your character specialized within a niche or role. I seems a bit overpowered to me that just one stat would affect 5 completely different guns (shotgun, assalt rifle, sniper rifle, scramber rifle and plasma cannon) similar to how just one stat allows you to use 3 completely different types of grenades. By making the rapid reload universal, you effectively make the stat a mandatory stat to invest in (like pre patch sharpshooter). I could only imagine, everyone with rapid reload wil effectively turn the game into a lone wolf-n-rush game which is what ccp is trying to stay away from (at least i think) I personally like the idea that each weapon has their own rapid reload, it effectively forces players to specialize in one area of warfare instead of branching out into a god-like one-man-army. However, i do feel he tier for rapid reload is too high. IMHO, just place rapid reload into teir 2 weapon training alongside operation and capacity and it should be fine. I agree with what you're saying, I don't think it should be a universal skill and I like that people have to specialize more now than they did before. I disagree with needing to get so deep into the skill tree to access Rapid Reload, and I disagree that it is a 6x skill if it's only giving you a 3% bonus to reload speed. At a 6x multiplier, it costs more than the raw damage given by Proficiency at a comparably cheap 5x. I am not entirely sure if you are disagreeing with me or not concerning the skill tree. im saying it should be sitting alongside operation and capacit, which is one step below proficiency
Full Metal Kitten Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 272	Posted - 2013.05.14 02:03:00 - [19] - Quote I think rapid reload and sharpshooter should swap places in the new tree.
Stephen Rao Verboten XXI 10	Posted - 2013.05.14 02:26:00 - [20] - Quote BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: I am not entirely sure if you are disagreeing with me or not concerning the skill tree. im saying it should be sitting alongside operation and capacit, which is one step below proficiency I was agreeing with you, and trying to show Buster Friently that it is currently overcosted/underpreforming for a 6x skill.

BuTtHuRtPEepZ Raging Pack of Homos 2	Posted - 2013.05.14 02:29:00 - [21] - Quote Full Metal Kitten wrote: I think rapid reload and sharpshooter should swap places in the new tree. sharpshooter isnt the same anymore. before it was range, now it is mrerely closing the bullet spread (as in tracers fire more in-line) . If anything, it just makes assault rifles and subguns more spray and pray
Full Metal Kitten Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 274	Posted - 2013.05.14 06:06:00 - [22] - Quote BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: Full Metal Kitten wrote: I think rapid reload and sharpshooter should swap places in the new tree. sharpshooter isnt the same anymore. before it was range, now it is mrerely closing the bullet spread (as in tracers fire more in-line) . If anything, it just makes assault rifles and subguns more spray and pray I understand this. And I still think it should be swapped. Sharpshooter is worth x6 SP. Rapid reload is not.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 166	Posted - 2013.05.14 07:19:00 - [23] - Quote I don't know about making the skill global again, but they could make the reload skill cheaper and/or adjust the percentage increase on different weapons. A lower percentage on a slow-reloading weapon is still a good bonus, but the percentage needs to be higher on a fast-reloading weapon for the change to be noticeable at all. This is actually what I -THOUGHT- they were going to do when they said they were breaking up the skills, because the old reload was only useful for some light weapons at that percentage. They have the power to change them now on an individual level.
Zaria Min Deir Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 25	Posted - 2013.05.14 08:06:00 - [24] - Quote Rapid Reload being what it is now is really a very bad joke. It is too high on the skill tree and it requires way too much SP for very little gain. Something like 5x multiplier with a 5% gain per level or 3x for 3% would maybe be reasonable, but 6x for 3%, LOL no. They need to take a look at this skill, because currently it makes no sense whatsoever. Being weapon specific is fine, I just think they made some of those weapon specific skills a bit too expensive SP wise, RR in particular.
Sparadok ZionTCD Unclaimed. 15	Posted - 2013.05.14 10:52:00 - [25] - Quote I can see both sides of this argument, yes it seems a high sp requirement for minimal return, by the same logic if you have a gun battle vs 2 players on an equal footing if one has skilled into reload speed that may be just the edge required. I also see the sense of making people specialise, maybe theres a compromise. If the initial skill remains as is and if you want to train other guns up with rapid reload these are at a lower tier once you get primary skill up to lvl 5. Or in reverse make rapid reload a lower tier and again once you hit lvl 5 you can train rapid reload on another weapon but at a higher multiplier. I prefer the latter for balance and is more in keeping with the speciality ethos. ???
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 472	Posted - 2013.05.14 11:42:00 - [26] - Quote Rapid reload is a really useful skill and should be weapon specific and come after 2 levels of proficiency, which is where it is at. I think that's reasonable. However the x6 multiplier is far too high, especially for the 3% return per level. A x3 multiplier for 6% would be better. It's just not a powerful enough skill to justify putting millions of SP into.


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