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Shutter Fly
Molon Labe.
63
   |
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Prima, I would suggest that you not post on this matter, as you clearly do not fully understand the situation and are seriously misunderstanding what occurred and what we stand for.
We wanted nothing but the success of PRO, but we truly felt that ContraBanJoe was not pursuing that success in the correct fashion. Nobody stated that we felt that any of the defectors could have run PRO better than Joe has, however, we do feel that Joe was not leading us in the best way that HE could have. Sev attempted to calmly bring his grievances to Joe's attention, as he as done many times before. Sev was met with nothing but animosity, personal attacks, and refusal of cooperation from Joe.
As for the platoons, it has nothing to do with "cliques" or removal of separation. The reason we are upset is that the platoons were WORKING, for the first time we were winning battles against some of the best corps in Dust. Alpha Platoon had won battles against What The French, SVER True Bloods, Hellstorm Inc., Internal Error, and several others. Bravo and Charlie were showing similar improvement and many were excited to either join platoons or spearhead new platoons. Joe removed platoons as soon as they started to become successful. |
X-eon
Molon Labe.
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
Prima, You fail to recognize that not all of us see Joe in a bad light. I praise Joe for being able to amass such an amazing group of people and go as far as he has without much trouble. The platoons were still pulling people in all the time with hope of further establish more of them. Sev AND Severance thought it to be a good idea so we can push the limits of each platoon, training small groups at a time, as we skirmished amongst ourselves and other corporations. Sure playing with ALL of pro isn't bad and brings the community together but it lacks familiarity. We have to remember ALL of these peoples play styles and niche roles and with such events as PC coming up a week beforehand isn't enough time to be able to do that. Joe is a great guy and has done a lot for PRO, the peoples corporation. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1389
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:So is Molon Labe. affiliated with Hellstorm? There was a vote last night. I'm not sure if we've been given the green light to announce the result of that vote. I'll have to find out after work.
More of a rhetorical question to generate discussion about this affiliation. I can see you guys on the Hellstorm forums making mention of it. |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
310
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
And why was a thread needed on this drama?... |
Severance Pay
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
Shutter Fly wrote:Prima, I would suggest that you not post on this matter, as you clearly do not fully understand the situation and are seriously misunderstanding what occurred and what we stand for.
We wanted nothing but the success of PRO, but we truly felt that ContraBanJoe was not pursuing that success in the correct fashion. Nobody stated that we felt that any of the defectors could have run PRO better than Joe has, however, we do feel that Joe was not leading us in the best way that HE could have. Sev attempted to calmly bring his grievances to Joe's attention, as he as done many times before. Sev was met with nothing but animosity, personal attacks, and refusal of cooperation from Joe.
As for the platoons, it has nothing to do with "cliques" or removal of separation. The reason we are upset is that the platoons were WORKING, for the first time we were winning battles against some of the best corps in Dust. Alpha Platoon had won battles against What The French, SVER True Bloods, Hellstorm Inc., Internal Error, and several others. Bravo and Charlie were showing similar improvement and many were excited to either join platoons or spearhead new platoons. Joe removed platoons as soon as they started to become successful.
Um... Prima is clearly an alt of Joe's. The dialogue is all too familiar. |
xIc0n1k
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:And why was a thread needed on this drama?...
Gizmo STFU. I love the drama. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
609
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
Prima Moordenaar (with editing by Orin the Freak) wrote: Planetary Response Organization, we're not going anywhere."
Couldn't have said it better myself. |
xIc0n1k
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:38:00 -
[68] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:Prima Moordenaar (with editing by Orin the Freak) wrote: Planetary Response Organization, we're not going anywhere."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
+1 |
Hawkin P
Molon Labe.
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
Prima Moordenaar wrote:
There have been some members of Molon Labe. and others accuse ContraBanJoe of having anger, poor leadership skills, or paranoia. As such, there have been no chat logs posted, no evidence provided, or any other forms of proof to verify any kind of behavior like this from ContraBanJoe and their arguments are generally hearsay.
Since your are looking for proof, here is a voice recording of Joe in PRO corp chat last night. Nuff Said.
https://soundcloud.com/hawkin-pete/joe-going-off |
GIZMO2606
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
310
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
xIc0n1k wrote:Orin the Freak wrote:Prima Moordenaar (with editing by Orin the Freak) wrote: Planetary Response Organization, we're not going anywhere."
Couldn't have said it better myself. +1
+1 |
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Prima Moordenaar
Planetary Response Organization
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:10:00 -
[71] - Quote
Shutter Fly wrote:Prima, I would suggest that you not post on this matter, as you clearly do not fully understand the situation and are seriously misunderstanding what occurred and what we stand for.
We wanted nothing but the success of PRO, but we truly felt that ContraBanJoe was not pursuing that success in the correct fashion. Nobody stated that we felt that any of the defectors could have run PRO better than Joe has, however, we do feel that Joe was not leading us in the best way that HE could have. Sev attempted to calmly bring his grievances to Joe's attention, as he as done many times before. Sev was met with nothing but animosity, personal attacks, and refusal of cooperation from Joe.
As for the platoons, it has nothing to do with "cliques" or removal of separation. The reason we are upset is that the platoons were WORKING, for the first time we were winning battles against some of the best corps in Dust. Alpha Platoon had won battles against What The French, SVER True Bloods, Hellstorm Inc., Internal Error, and several others. Bravo and Charlie were showing similar improvement and many were excited to either join platoons or spearhead new platoons. Joe removed platoons as soon as they started to become successful.
Shutter Fly, I will ignore the first part of the statement - I understand quite clearly the forces at play and the motivations being played out. By leaving the corporation, you acknowledge that the leadership of Molon Lobe. is, in your mind, better than the leadership of PRO. It doesn't matter if you thought ContraBanJoe was a good leader, you believe that those in Molon Lobe. is better or at least on par. It doesn't have to be stated by any of the defectors as it is universally the motivation for most corporation changes.
Responding to both your post and X-eon, I am not saying that all Molon Lobe. members or old PRO members hold resentment to PRO, merely that there are some who do and are vocal about it have no grounds for their resentment and accusations.
Platoons were nothing more than one plan the leadership of PRO had for Planetary Conquest. While you may say that they were successful, and you're right, platoons were winning some corporation battles, that does not mean that there was not negatives to platoons either. In the end, ContraBanJoe decided that platoons were not worth the positives and policy change disbanded them. I can understand questioning the decision, but if that is all it takes to set off an incident in which multiple corporation members leave, I would say its better that it happen now rather than happen after Planetary Conquest has launched.
Orin the Freak wrote:Prima Moordenaar (with editing by Orin the Freak) wrote: Planetary Response Organization, we're not going anywhere."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
If you're going to twist my quotes, at least get rid of the quotation mark mate!
|
CYRAX SERVIUS
The Generals
EoN.
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kirin Torch wrote:I expect this to turn into a very juicy drama thread hope I'm not disappointed. *grabs popcorn*
Dude serious bacon sandwich! I told you didn't I !!!!!! |
CYRAX SERVIUS
The Generals
EoN.
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sum1ne Else wrote:Aegis Scientiafide wrote:Wait what? Are you serious? I'm sorry, I was able to forgive a lot of things before, but as a PRO member I'm afraid I'll need more than the generic, "There were disagreements on policy" and, "we disbanded the platoon project because we felt it was harmful to the community" for this. I mean, this is huge, why the hell are up to 150 of our top members (including arguably our best player, Sev Kimura), leaving the corp? Well havent you got to ask yourself this.. Why was Sev Kimura in the Corp in the 1st place? For such a high rated/ranked player that could go anywhere in Dust (so I have been told), why PRO? And you say arguably our best players.. how do you define that? are you judging on their SP?.. Our best players are loyal ones, and WOW I played with guys last night in PRO that i had never played with before and they were going 15/1 now would where do you consider that? All I can say is I thank and fully support Joe in what he is doing and so do the rest of our corporation, the 'policy change' works and we only come back stronger. Good Luck Sev... Sum1ne Else.
So did I give it time. |
DARK - IMPULSE
Planetary Response Organization
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:40:00 -
[74] - Quote
This is an unfortunate event that has turned sour and bitter. I was not on coms during the saturday GÇ£thingGÇ¥, so I cant judge on who is right or wrong and I believe that those two concepts were created by us, humans, to justify ourselves, so I would not go there. I think I need to put into perspective the platoons situation as it is, without taking sides with anyone.
There were some positive sides to having platoons such as playing with the same players gave those individuals an advantage in the battlefield, you got to know people better since it was a closed circle, and the work of putting together squads paid of as Alpha-toon won corp battles against some of the best dust corps.
It is acceptable and reasonable to think that the platoons were good, but it is immature to not to see the dark side of the platoons because they were GÇ£alienatingGÇ¥ the non-platoon members. Some of the PRO members left the corp since the platoons were created, Bravo was basically non existent and Charlie was composed of few members that were constantly on and nothing was really going on there ( I was a member of Charlie). I stopped meeting people from the other platoons and we, as platoon members, stopped integrating with the rest of the corp.
The platoons was an idea that worked for a while as it had made people close to one another, but, what about the rest of the corp? The ones that came found that they were alone since everyone else was in their own platoons. People left the corp, since the platoons were discriminatory and we lost great players in the process. Before I was a platoon member I found myself left out in a squad because people had to go to their platoon to play with their members. It was good that people got used to their own playing style in the platoons, but the elimination of the platoons was the perfect opportunity for Alpha members to spread out all of the knowledge, that they learnt when they were in a platoon, all over the corp and became the teachers and positive leaders of PRO and better as a whole.
In my opinion I am happy the platoons are over because I get to know the rest of the corp. I am going to stay in PRO, not because of Joe, or the directives, or the people, or the name, or because I am loyal, but because PRO saw and helped me grow as a mercenary and I put my work inside the corp and those kills I made are part of PRO. I am not leaving just because I don't agree with someone; you are not supposed to agree with everything Joe says, or your mom or dad when you were growing up, or the president of your country, or your supervisor, or anybody. You knew the people you were playing for a while in your platoon would not be so hard to find once the platoons were eliminated, so I am pretty sure that ugly things were said on Saturday from both sides that made people leave PRO. I really don't know what happened and I don't want to know the details neither.
In events like this we usually start point fingers to each other to try to find whose responsible. It is natural, it is what we do because we need to prove we are right. We all do it or have done it before. It is a decision that anyone is entitled and has a right to make/take. We lost great players and people in this situation, but for all the bullets we shared, for all the blood of our clones we spilt on the battlefield and for all the moments we shared standing beside each other like brothers aiming to the enemy PLEASE stop trashing each other. Let's stop with the bad comments and insults. We are better than that. Let's stop for a moment before we say something hurtful to our ex-corp mates. Just let time pass. I know is hard not to get emotional with something that we have put countless hours and energy that it kind of becomes, in some weird way, part of you. I guess that is why people were complaining some much with uprising. But this is a game and we are here to have fun.
Sand castles are the best because you can always build another one the next day in the same spot . In this life nothing stays the same, nothing, so changes are good. I am happy for the guys that left because maybe you guys needed to enjoy the game more and maybe you are going to find the answers were are looking for. I really wish you guys the best to all of the ones that left the corp. It was a pleasure sharing a squad and the corp with you guys. As from my part, I carry no feelings towards any of you and if we ended in the same team in a match I will go to team chat for old times sake.
DARK - IMPULSE. |
Deadeyes Anterie
Ill Omens
EoN.
516
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
Hawkin P wrote:Prima Moordenaar wrote:
There have been some members of Molon Labe. and others accuse ContraBanJoe of having anger, poor leadership skills, or paranoia. As such, there have been no chat logs posted, no evidence provided, or any other forms of proof to verify any kind of behavior like this from ContraBanJoe and their arguments are generally hearsay.
Since your are looking for proof, here is a voice recording of Joe in PRO corp chat last night. Nuff Said. https://soundcloud.com/hawkin-pete/joe-going-off
Sev pulled off the first great move of Dust.
He's in a Corporation where he is becoming more liked then the leadership. The leadership is in bitter strife over what to do with him, kick him or leave him as he gains more influence.
He waits until the leadership alienates the top players by removing the PC structure and then pounces and takes the majority of the best players.
PRO comes out and acts like things are fine, then I listen to their meeting where they talk about how they wanted to get rid of him for a long time, and literally start chanting about what a ***** he is hahaha. Furthermore they are now afraid of the players he pulled out of PRO and decide the best action is to build as much distance as possible and just wait for all the players to come back.
I commend you Sev, regardless of your initial intentions it's now clear you made the best possible choice by leaving, and the fact that you brought so many of the good players is impressive.
If you want to lead a campaign to crush PRO you can have my gun for free, mostly because I think it would be a great ending to the story. |
CYRAX SERVIUS
The Generals
EoN.
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:51:00 -
[76] - Quote
You have much to learn about the corp you are in and the history of people leaving long before "the squads". Next time you make a donation to the corp, see where it goes, does it train new players or your ceo's ego? I have to say good luck and always look over your shoulder... |
STABBEY
Molon Labe.
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
DARK - IMPULSE wrote:
Sand castles are the best because you can always build another one the next day in the same spot . In this life nothing stays the same, nothing, so changes are good. I am happy for the guys that left because maybe you guys needed to enjoy the game more and maybe you are going to find the answers were are looking for. I really wish you guys the best to all of the ones that left the corp. It was a pleasure sharing a squad and the corp with you guys. As from my part, I carry no feelings towards any of you and if we ended in the same team in a match I will go to team chat for old times sake.
Agreed, I vote the Bickering and Bitching stops  I still Have friends in pro and I would squad them anytime. This will blow over in time. If i could lock this post I would until then, i hope to see those of you that arent harboring ill feelings on the battlefield. |
Aegis Scientiafide
Planetary Response Organisation
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Honestly, to me the whole 150 player uprising isn't even the worst part. To me, the worst part was when Joe decided to ignore the questions of a PRO member who's been in the corp for 2 1/2 months in favor of arguing with the dissenters (he did this twice ><). Guess arguing with the rebels is more important.
Anyway, thanks to the Molon Labe and PR0 people for helping me piece things together (although I wish Joe would have acknowledged my presence with at least a simple statement, but I guess since I'm in PRO I'm a nobody to him).
As to the PR0 players who spoke of loyalty here... I'm one of the most loyal players you will find in an online game. When I find a clan/guild I like I stick with it. In all the online games I've played I've remained in the same guild/clan for years now. The thing about loyalty, though, is that I don't believe it's something people are entitled to; no, loyalty is earned, and one of the key ways it is earned is via respect.
And Dark, if you're saying you're staying in PRO because of the nametag... well, all I'm gonna say is that it sounds like you're really trying hard to rationalize.
As for community... well, you can enjoy the community without having Joe as leader. Hell, there are tons of fun players out there as well, you don't need to be a member of PRO for that. You don't need to be a member to squad up.
Anyway, It seems clear to me that Joe doesn't give two ***** about his members. So yea, I think I've had just about enough of all this BS. To all you PRO people out there, I suggest you leave the corp. Ask yourselves, what exactly has this corp done for me? How much of your isk in donations/taxes does our CEO deserve? |
Shutter Fly
Molon Labe.
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Hawkin P wrote:Prima Moordenaar wrote:
There have been some members of Molon Labe. and others accuse ContraBanJoe of having anger, poor leadership skills, or paranoia. As such, there have been no chat logs posted, no evidence provided, or any other forms of proof to verify any kind of behavior like this from ContraBanJoe and their arguments are generally hearsay.
Since your are looking for proof, here is a voice recording of Joe in PRO corp chat last night. Nuff Said. https://soundcloud.com/hawkin-pete/joe-going-off
I am extremely disappointed in Joe after hearing this. This was not brought on by Sev, Joe instigated this movement in his transgressions toward Sev.
I have been told by Sev that he wanted to make this work, and I trust him. Apparently, I shouldn't have trusted Joe as much as I had. On Saturday, Sev went to Joe, attempted to get an understanding of the motives behind Joe's changes, and he did not get the explanation he had come for. Joe said in this clip that Sev can "f*** off", of course he wants him to, that is exactly what he told Sev to do when Sev attempted to communicate with him. Sev did not steal corp members and leave, he was pushed from the corp by Joe. Sev then decided to start his own corporation, he contacted his friends in the corp, told them what transpired, and let them know that they were welcome to join his corp along with any others they had enjoyed their time with, but would remain allies if they chose to stay in PRO.
We don't want to fight PRO, we were hoping to remain friends with them, but I can't see how we could remain on good terms with Joe if this is what he is saying. Those still in PRO, I prefer to remain on good terms with all of you individually, just don't try to discuss corp matters with me in game. I know what happened, and my decision is final.
Aegis, thank you for looking at this from a well grounded perspective. I always considered myself loyal to the corp I was in, but PRO isn't the corp that I once thought it was. Loyalty is about more than a name or a person, this is a situation that can't be put in such simple terms, it's too bad many don't see it that way. |
Kirin Torch
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lmao after listening to this I will help in any way even if its just killing joe when i see him lol I know a lot of the the people that left and I would trust Sev, Arnold's and Hawkins word over contras any day good luck guys |
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Green Living
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
MOAR |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
225
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 01:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:So is Molon Labe. affiliated with Hellstorm? There was a vote last night. I'm not sure if we've been given the green light to announce the result of that vote. I'll have to find out after work. More of a rhetorical question to generate discussion about this affiliation. I can see you guys on the Hellstorm forums making mention of it.
Yes, we joined League of Infamy. We are stoked about it. |
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe.
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
This is better than Eastenders |
Aegis Scientiafide
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Heh funny. There's no time to give a simple response to a post, but there's time to kick me from the guild for a disagreeable post. |
xIc0n1k
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Aegis Scientiafide wrote:Heh funny. There's no time to give a simple response to a post, but there's time to kick me from the guild for a disagreeable post.
Say hello to Joes egotistical and tyrannical ways when dealing with any opposition. |
Aegis Scientiafide
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
xIc0n1k wrote:Aegis Scientiafide wrote:Heh funny. There's no time to give a simple response to a post, but there's time to kick me from the guild for a disagreeable post. Say hello to Joes egotistical and tyrannical ways when dealing with any opposition.
Well yes, but I find it funny that he managed to do so within a mere 0-2 hours after my disagreeable post. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
226
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:26:00 -
[87] - Quote
Aegis Scientiafide wrote:Heh funny. There's no time to give a simple response to a post, but there's time to kick me from the guild for a disagreeable post.
Look on the corporate recruitment forum for our thread. We'll take you in. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
383
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Look on the corporate recruitment forum for our thread. We'll take you in.
Yeah! Join PRO 2.0 so we can do this every other week! |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
226
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:45:00 -
[89] - Quote
0 Try Harder wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Look on the corporate recruitment forum for our thread. We'll take you in. Yeah! Join PRO 2.0 so we can do this every other week!
We can't all be dicks |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
347
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 02:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
No need to name call Thor, it was funny and only to be expected. |
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