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SP Respec for AUR? Why not?

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Dusty Nelson The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:25:00 - [31] - Quote CCP does not do Respec in EVE and thats the way it is in New Eden unless CCP clearly changes the Skill System in a big way to refund Skill Points for those affected skills. Otherwise there is no Respec option to EVE players on Tranqulity and certainly once all the hicups are out the way and DUST is launched officially it will be the same in DUST most likely as well. Pick your points wisely. Skilling with Skill Points is a game itself within a game. New Eden is not a place known for "Respecing" of SP. Ask EVE players. This is New Eden.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Unclaimed. 696	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:31:00 - [32] - Quote Dusty Nelson wrote: CCP does not do Respec in EVE and thats the way it is in New Eden unless CCP clearly changes the Skill System in a big way to refund Skill Points for those affected skills. Otherwise there is no Respec option to EVE players on Tranqulity and certainly once all the hicups are out the way and DUST is launched officially it will be the same in DUST most likely as well. Pick your points wisely. Skilling with Skill Points is a game itself within a game. New Eden is not a place known for "Respecing" of SP. Ask EVE players. This is New Eden. they have a complete game, we don't, we play with about 25% of what CCP wants to put in the game right now, so respecs would serve the purpose of allowing players to actually play the game the way they want.....instead of having to make do with what little we got. respecs till we have the other 75%? yes. after have have a complete game? no.
IamI3rian OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 28	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:34:00 - [33] - Quote A subscription based PC spaceship game is a very different animal than a F2P console based shooter. Sad reality? Maybe... but people simply aren't gonna stick with it if they can't switch out of something if they make a mistake/get nerfed. That's just the way it is.
eKona vinDar WarRavens Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:36:00 - [34] - Quote My idea: 1. All new players start with one free respec that can be used at anytime.... 2. Anyone can purchase a respec for $25 3. After using a respec you must wait 6 months to use another Simple. Fair. Exploit free.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 132	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:43:00 - [35] - Quote Testy McTestersn wrote: If you had to give up some of that precious SP we work so hard to get maybe folks would actually THINK before spending SP on the current Flavor of the Month. I couldn't help but chuckle. I had more to this, well thought out I thought, on what I thought of pay, time delay, and SP percentage methods, but it...didn't post and i'm not going to go through that again.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens Orion Empire 450	Posted - 2013.05.12 21:53:00 - [36] - Quote I'd have to say no, for a number of reasons. Seeing as AURUM is IRL money only, we could always say that it gives too much power to the paying players. Respecs should be something CCP does to apologize for a sudden change (like when they removed attribute skills from EVE) or for full on, across the board resets. Being able to do them at any time would cheapen the occations where CCP mandates one, and lets be honest: AURUM respeccers who respec right before a mandatory respec. How much whining do you think that'd make? Also, respecs are usually incorperated into a game for different builds, not for skill assignment screwups. Example: In MAG, I can get to level 60 and that's it. 60 points. I can respec using ingame currency in order to try out another 60 point build, however. In Demon's Souls, I level up with souls. I can accidentally level into ENDURANCE when I meant to add STRENGTH, but it isn't like it'll hurt my performance or limit my future prospects. DUST is the latter, where no one skill learned (should) hurt your ability to do anything else. Ergo, a respec is only a good idea if they alter the skills like they do at the beginning of new builds, or when they radically change a skill or remove a skill, like they have done several times in EVE.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 46	Posted - 2013.05.12 22:08:00 - [37] - Quote richiesutie 2 wrote: secondly, doesn't a USP such as that restrict Dusts player base to a more mature audience and further more limit its profitability. It definitely restricts the playerbase to a certain mindset, yes. But that's what any USP is all about. From a marketing perspective EvE is not still around as the only title that has never lost in usernumbers on yearly average since it's inception because it's the best in some ambiguous metric. It's because the userbase is not a homogenic mass of likeminded people but rather a number of individuals with varying expectations and EvE caters to that one part no one else has touched yet. What dust is trying to do is speaking to a playerbase that wants a persistent world with meaningfull, sometimes hurting decisions, in wich, conveniently you can shoot people to the face. If you provide this you alienate alle the players that don't care or specifically don't want this but you gain a dedicated an loyal community because there's simply nothing else in the whole market, no matter what fancy features or hype. By allowing regular respecs in any way shape or form CCP would loose a part of that persistence thereby sacrificing part of what differenciates this game from all the acclaimed brands on the market. This would force CCP to compete more directly with those products wich, frankly is a loosing proposition since that market is completely oversaturated.
flesth Red Star. EoN. 27	Posted - 2013.05.12 22:19:00 - [38] - Quote last repesc for everyone on the last day of beta -- Free AUR - 6 months $25 ISK - 1 year 1,000,000isk or what ever less or higher just an idea when the game out of beta
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1759	Posted - 2013.05.13 00:18:00 - [39] - Quote I remember MAG had a skill Respec system that used another point system that once you reached like 5000 then you would spend it to Respec and can't redo it until you earned the points once more. Just giving an example of another online shooter that had a Respec skill option
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 481	Posted - 2013.05.13 00:37:00 - [40] - Quote Maybe pay % sp for respec, If you have 10 million sp and respec to have 8million it would be enough cost to prevent people doing it unless they made a massive error. repec for isk or aur would be abused. 100million isk or $50 price would not stop this abuse. New player option to reset after 30days could help new berries though. Vets should know enough to live with any mistakes.

Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1759	Posted - 2013.05.13 01:11:00 - [41] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Maybe pay % sp for respec, If you have 10 million sp and respec to have 8million it would be enough cost to prevent people doing it unless they made a massive error. repec for isk or aur would be abused. 100million isk or $50 price would not stop this abuse. New player option to reset after 30days could help new berries though. Vets should know enough to live with any mistakes. A negative SP% applied to a player chosen respec is an interesting idea. If the ability was given maybe have the negative% stack after the first two times. Ether way it would add to the SP sink and still fund this game
sammus420 Goonfeet 55	Posted - 2013.05.13 01:13:00 - [42] - Quote Yes. It's a great idea, I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.
copy left SyNergy Gaming EoN. 145	Posted - 2013.05.13 01:37:00 - [43] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Simple question: Would you pay AUR to have the ability to Respec your character? Answer below. Edit for Discussion: having unlimited Respec would be a bit unfair, so what limit would be fare to you. I like the idea of 5 AUR respec for the life of the character. Yes I would pay for this. Its not like EVE where you have this million dollar ship and you play for years to be the best. Dust has moment to moment quick pace game play. Respecs would a big roll in the way it gets done. I would like a respec once per month option .
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1487	Posted - 2013.05.13 01:39:00 - [44] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Simple question: Would you pay AUR to have the ability to Respec your character? Answer below. Edit for Discussion: having unlimited Respec would be a bit unfair, so what limit would be fare to you. I like the idea of 5 AUR respec for the life of the character. Game-destroying bad. This would be the very definition of pay-to-win. I would oppose any form of paid respec no matter the concept, but at the very least don't try and suggest that allowing it as an option only for people who pay real money isn't a terrible idea.
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1760	Posted - 2013.05.13 01:47:00 - [45] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Game-destroying bad. This would be the very definition of pay-to-win. I would oppose any form of paid respec no matter the concept, but at the very least don't try and suggest that allowing it as an option only for people who pay real money isn't a terrible idea. Now I'm not choosing a side here just asking the question. Now you state this would be Pay to win, how is that when it's SP you spent the time to earn? For me viewing this from the outside this would seem like a great way to help balance the battles, but my question still stands to you, how is this Pay to Win?
Mer Kure DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.05.13 02:09:00 - [46] - Quote Now, why not instead of a set cost and limit for the respec, just make an incremental cost? Say, first respec cost 10M Isk, second one cost 20M, third one costs 40M, next one 80M, and so on. (Maybe not specifically those numbers, but you get the idea.) This way, there's no real limit, but the cost keeps going up, so while early respecs would be easier to get, soon the price will increase to ridiculous amounts really fast so you can't just respec whenever you feel like it. But even when the price is stupidly high, there's still the option to do so if you save up and don't mind spending the Isk on it.
Jin no kami KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.05.13 02:09:00 - [47] - Quote Let it be a flat rate for respec u earned ur sp and real money you should B allowed to change. I thk the aur price should be 50,000 that way both types of players will cry and complain together about it
Zion Shad ZionTCD Unclaimed. 1760	Posted - 2013.05.13 03:30:00 - [48] - Quote Tenchu-13 wrote: Hm.... no and yes. No there shouldn't be a respec option neither for ISk nor AUR. Would I use it IFF they decided for a weird reason to implement it... probably yes. But I think you should live with the errors you make in this universe. You have choices to make.. you screw up.. well you screwed up. We all want to see new players to the game, could you see this as a way to keep players more interested in Dust514?
Turkevich Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 4	Posted - 2013.05.13 20:18:00 - [49] - Quote This type of feature would encourage the same flavor of the month game play you see everywhere but in CCP titles. Sure it would make CCP some money but it wouldn't be good for the game. Live with your choices. HTFU! Welcome to New Eden.
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 215	Posted - 2013.05.13 20:27:00 - [50] - Quote It will never happen. Lock and close this thread of Bacon.

xaerael Kabiel Goonfeet 98	Posted - 2013.05.13 21:17:00 - [51] - Quote Paying for a respec just with either AUR, Isk or hard cash is a terrible idea, and just lets he who holds the biggest wallet to respec every time a new piece of gear is released. A player driven respec needs to have a penalty. For example, if there was a 15% Sp loss for a respec, people with a few months under their belt would probably just shrug and take the hit to correct that dumb mistake they made. Someone with a year or so, however, would think twice at losing a couple of month's worth of SP. Further down the line, someone with 5-6 years SP would balk at the idea of losing almost a year of SP. Respecs should be for newbie players who have made mistakes on their initial skill choices. I'm actually all for a totally free respec for any character on a new account under 8 weeks old.
smartlayer Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.05.13 21:22:00 - [52] - Quote yes and pretty sure it will come in 2013
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 694	Posted - 2013.05.13 21:31:00 - [53] - Quote Hi, I wanted to post a bad idea on this forum to troll people, but then someone beat me to it. Now I'm sad.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 119	Posted - 2013.05.13 23:20:00 - [54] - Quote I would say yes to this. Limited to 2-3 times a year. For 20-25$ if paid with Aurum (someone has to pay for the game) For 100-200 mill if paid with ISK. The negative SP is also a good idea. Not making you lose SP that you have already won, but penalizing those that you win after the respec up to a specific amount, like the first million SP after your respec wont be added to your character, the first 2 mill after your second respec on the same year, and so on.... Make it hard and difficult, but make it possible.
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 53	Posted - 2013.05.13 23:42:00 - [55] - Quote For all those against a respect similar to that which we had in MAG, I hope CCP nerfs something you are able to effectively use to the point that it's utterly useless (your favorite weapon, suit, etc...). I hope it completely lowers your performance until you"re ready to quit Dust. Then, we'll talk about respecs again. I want the choice to be able to change my role and try new loadouts and so do others but you're afraid that other players will stomp you so you say no to a respec. News Flash, they'll stomp you anyway because they were already more skilled, OP weapon or not.
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 470	Posted - 2013.05.13 23:44:00 - [56] - Quote Nothing should be available in a F2P game for real money that can not be gained through non-cash methods in-game. That's a pretty solid principle of good F2P game design. However, the idea of respecs for new players is not terrible. Unlimited respecs until graduating from the academy could be great to allow newbies to get a feel for what they want to do in the real game. Respecs allowed in the real game would just break the entire idea of persistence and consequence that forms the core of Dust's USP. I'm also a fan of the idea of being able to boost learning certain skills at the expense of others, like in EvE - but as we have slightly different skilling mechanics it would be more like lower the skill multiplier for certain skills whilst raising the multiplier of everything else with an annual (or maybe bi-annual option to change the boosted skills). That way you can't undo your mistakes but you can make it much easier to overcome them relatively quickly.
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 470	Posted - 2013.05.13 23:47:00 - [57] - Quote Chinduko wrote: For all those against a respect similar to that which we had in MAG, I hope CCP nerfs something you are able to effectively use to the point that it's utterly useless (your favorite weapon, suit, etc...). I hope it completely lowers your performance until you"re ready to quit Dust. Then, we'll talk about respecs again. I want the choice to be able to change my role and try new loadouts and so do others but you're afraid that other players will stomp you so you say no to a respec. News Flash, they'll stomp you anyway because they were already more skilled, OP weapon or not. There should definitely be refunds on skill points anytime a particular skill is drastically changed or removed - I don't think anyone would argue against that. But this should only apply to the specific SP put into the changed skill (and other skills that rely on it as a pre-req).
InsertCoinHere Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 24	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:29:00 - [58] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: Simple question: Would you pay AUR to have the ability to Respec your character? Answer below. Edit for Discussion: having unlimited Respec would be a bit unfair, so what limit would be fare to you. I like the idea of 5 AUR respec for the life of the character. Yes, and I would pay more than 5 aur...
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 57	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:47:00 - [59] - Quote Chinduko wrote: For all those against a respect similar to that which we had in MAG, I hope CCP nerfs something you are able to effectively use to the point that it's utterly useless (your favorite weapon, suit, etc...). I hope it completely lowers your performance until you"re ready to quit Dust. Then, we'll talk about respecs again. I want the choice to be able to change my role and try new loadouts and so do others but you're afraid that other players will stomp you so you say no to a respec. News Flash, they'll stomp you anyway because they were already more skilled, OP weapon or not. My playstyle is logi and Uprising put some 2m SP between me and the first suit i can actually use for the job. Additionally i wholeheatedly support a sweeping nerf of the whole class, even to a larger extend than most because i value the games integrity more than my kd/wp/whatever. Is this enough for you to consider my arguments on their own merits or do you have some more strawmen?
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:58:00 - [60] - Quote I say yes. Let's give CCP more money. Make it an in game item then when CCP finally get's around to introducing the secondary market they can still live up to their claims of Dust not being pay to win. A limit on the number of times you can use it per year is reasonable. Limited uses per lifetime is not great in my opinion since they want this game to last forever. I would also give it an activation delay. So you hit the button then need to wait for 24 hours (or something) for it to take affect. Another interesting option would be to have a rewind option. A cheaper respec that just undoes all your choices for the last week, month, etc.



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