oh look a evetard has a opinion about dust. I saw what happend after the fanfest where "evetards" gave CCP positive feedback. And 16 mill SP on a 16 man team? lol on my own i allready have 12 million.

oh look a evetard has a opinion about dust. I saw what happend after the fanfest where "evetards" gave CCP positive feedback. And 16 mill SP on a 16 man team? lol on my own i allready have 12 million.

Hi there,

The fact I (used) to play EVE is incidental; my points stand apart from that, I am merely speaking from the point of view of someone who has played a lot of vidya, and wants to see DUST succeed and be an amazing world and game that I know CCP can make out of it. I think they're one of the best developers in the world because of their unique origins and inspirations.

The point about SP was just for an example, yours is even more frightening. You're objectively better with your character than I am. I understand that's a part of the game, but the fact that new players regularly can go up against people like you is not really a testament to player skill. It's like beating pawns in chess with bishops, knights, and queens. Your piece can do more than mine, and is better at what it does than mine too.

Why the EVE hate? Dust is in the EVE universe last I checked. This isn't just your game, it's everyone's game. If you give a **** you would welcome more players into our community. Unless you want Dust 514 or the FPS genera in general to continue on as an enclosed niche novelty like fighting games were before SFIV. Mellow out, you're making us all look bad.

Hello everyone.

Longtime EVE player, wanted to make a transition out of a traditional MMO environment into something that was more pick up and play but still had depth and structure.

I found out about DUST, did a little reading about planned features, invested in a PS3 and got into the meat of it. After playing for about a week now, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

1. Weapon diversity needs to change. Honestly, 90% of my deaths are from assault rifles, specifically the highest tiered "Duvolle" variant, because at least 90% of the players seem to use this weapon. I understand the desire to use what is best, most encompassing, but it's annoying that there's so much variety in this game that goes unused.

2. Vehicles, or lack thereof. There is a huge ceiling for a new player trying to use these, the skill and ISK investment is crazy and also makes your basic ground abilities lackluster compared to equally skilled opponents. HAVs, when I do see them, seem to do okay, but only because most players won't switch to an AT role to deal with them.

3. Dropships, similar to above. Crazy hard to fly, in every sense of the word. Expensive. Role needs to be expanded or better defined.

4. Tier systems in a F2P... Makes me a nervous man. I understand it's related to the way of doing things in EVE, but I think it's bad game design to have high skill investments rewarded with objectively superior weapons (DUVOLLE I AM LOOKING AT YOU). There needs to be side grades rather than Milita < Standard < Mid < Highest. Higher investment should be rewarded with more exotic possibilities, maybe even attachments? I find it annoying I can't put a decent optic on say, a laser rifle, but an SMG? Sure, have a nice Holo scope.

As for some strengths:

1. Time to kill. I think this is the single most important factor for a shooter, and I think DUST (generally) hits it pretty well. The game gives you enough time to retreat, recover, and continue to fight, while still punishing you for making mistakes. Except Duvolles, they **** out a trillion damage a minute. It shows that DUST isn't designed for the casual, because you have to think, as opposed to the classic example of COD that is designed to allow any player to win based on who shoots first without the other person seeing.

2. Aesthetic. Very pretty, well designed and unique per race, though I feel like all I see are gallente mediums (they are the coolest, I swear).

3. The EVE connection. I think the factional warfare systems and EVE involvement are the saving grace, and I also understand that I can't expect this game to be flawless so soon in its development cycle. I think the potential to evolve and grow along EVE is massive, if crossplatform play is properly rewarded.

4. Teamplay. I think the strongest teams seem to be that way because of hard working interaction between roles, I especially like the kind of "trench" warfare that goes on when you have a decent logistics player on your side, it sets up a good hub for the whole team to conduct warfare with.

Lastly, here are my major concerns:

I had to re-roll my every character for the first three days I played, because it is that easy to gimp yourself with bad skill choices. There needs to be a grace period or something where a new player can respec within their first month, or whatever, because It's not exactly going to be in every player's head that they need to go extensive research on a forum or wiki to skill for a playstyle which at least sounds like it's playable for them. I had the experience of trying several roles that sounded good only to find them not what I expected. I don't see how else to approach this besides respec.

Matchmaking tiers. It needs this bad. It is different in EVE when you don't have to go play with the big boys in nullsec until you're further along into your character. Day one of DUST you're fighting protos with the highest tier weapon in their class. It's frustrating, because the engagements are symmetrical. A 16 man team with 16 million SP among them is objectively better and well rounded than a 16 man team with only 8 million SP among them. More damage, more health, better weapons with better parameters. For this reason, its vital that the game try to average out SP between teams, or set limits per pool. Punishing players for being new (not for individual skill) is not a good way to retain a strong and loyal base. I would rather lose to an equal SP player 10 times rather than a multi-million SP player once, because at least I know which death was because of a deficit of skill on my part.

So, tl;dr:

The game is very promising, and has strong fundamentals that set it apart from your typical shooter fair. The game occupies a strange niche between accessible and super hardcore, and the symmetry of match ups punishes new players to a high degree. The game needs to undergo some balancing and diversification, or community retention will be a huge problem for the game and it's future.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of other new and also more experienced players. I ask both parties to consider what it's like to be on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

EDIT:

One last complaint, but it's very important. There is no, no, no, no reason why every character on an account shouldn't be able to gain passive SP. All you're encouraging is for people to make multiple PSN accounts, which brings nothing to the game besides increased server load, because the game is free to play. It makes sense, fiscally, in EVE to have it this way, but not here.

oh look a evetard has a opinion about dust. I saw what happend after the fanfest where "evetards" gave CCP positive feedback. And 16 mill SP on a 16 man team? lol on my own i allready have 12 million.

Good grief, there are some real twats on these forums with hairy palms and PlayStation tans. Open the window once in awhile. It doesn't take long to be reminded why I don't frequent this place so much. lol

Nice OP, I agree with most of your points there. I think the game has promise.

There is no, no, no, no reason why every character on an account shouldn't be able to gain passive SP.

Join us, it's the only way.

Remember that it's a FPS game, not a MMO. There were many problems in the last build because all of the MMOers came on forums and said stuff like, "I've been killed by xxxxx too many times". In PvE that's fine, but FPS games are PvP. Just because you die a lot to one gun does not mean that it's OP, it just means that many players are using it.

I see this type of statement a lot.

Frankly, I don't know how you can speak for CCP. Have they said they want a pure FPS? Or is it just that you want a pure/core FPS without MMO or RPG elements intruding.

Also, I have to say, a lot of the people whining for nerfs and OP are the FPS players. They find they can't rule and kill everyone, or worse yet they get killed by something, and they cry like babies. Don't blame that on non-FPS players. There is a difference between wanting to give new players a fair shot at enjoying the game and growing the player base and whining like a ***** because your proto gear doesn't protect you from getting dead.

If this has been clarified anywhere, other than forum rants by the opinionated, please drop an uplink to the thread.

oh look a evetard has a opinion about dust. I saw what happend after the fanfest where "evetards" gave CCP positive feedback. And 16 mill SP on a 16 man team? lol on my own i allready have 12 million.

Hello everyone.

Longtime EVE player, wanted to make a transition out of a traditional MMO environment into something that was more pick up and play but still had depth and structure.

I found out about DUST, did a little reading about planned features, invested in a PS3 and got into the meat of it. After playing for about a week now, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

1. Weapon diversity needs to change. Honestly, 90% of my deaths are from assault rifles, specifically the highest tiered "Duvolle" variant, because at least 90% of the players seem to use this weapon. I understand the desire to use what is best, most encompassing, but it's annoying that there's so much variety in this game that goes unused.

2. Vehicles, or lack thereof. There is a huge ceiling for a new player trying to use these, the skill and ISK investment is crazy and also makes your basic ground abilities lackluster compared to equally skilled opponents. HAVs, when I do see them, seem to do okay, but only because most players won't switch to an AT role to deal with them.

3. Dropships, similar to above. Crazy hard to fly, in every sense of the word. Expensive. Role needs to be expanded or better defined.

4. Tier systems in a F2P... Makes me a nervous man. I understand it's related to the way of doing things in EVE, but I think it's bad game design to have high skill investments rewarded with objectively superior weapons (DUVOLLE I AM LOOKING AT YOU). There needs to be side grades rather than Milita < Standard < Mid < Highest. Higher investment should be rewarded with more exotic possibilities, maybe even attachments? I find it annoying I can't put a decent optic on say, a laser rifle, but an SMG? Sure, have a nice Holo scope.

As for some strengths:

1. Time to kill. I think this is the single most important factor for a shooter, and I think DUST (generally) hits it pretty well. The game gives you enough time to retreat, recover, and continue to fight, while still punishing you for making mistakes. Except Duvolles, they **** out a trillion damage a minute. It shows that DUST isn't designed for the casual, because you have to think, as opposed to the classic example of COD that is designed to allow any player to win based on who shoots first without the other person seeing.

2. Aesthetic. Very pretty, well designed and unique per race, though I feel like all I see are gallente mediums (they are the coolest, I swear).

3. The EVE connection. I think the factional warfare systems and EVE involvement are the saving grace, and I also understand that I can't expect this game to be flawless so soon in its development cycle. I think the potential to evolve and grow along EVE is massive, if crossplatform play is properly rewarded.

4. Teamplay. I think the strongest teams seem to be that way because of hard working interaction between roles, I especially like the kind of "trench" warfare that goes on when you have a decent logistics player on your side, it sets up a good hub for the whole team to conduct warfare with.

Lastly, here are my major concerns:

I had to re-roll my every character for the first three days I played, because it is that easy to gimp yourself with bad skill choices. There needs to be a grace period or something where a new player can respec within their first month, or whatever, because It's not exactly going to be in every player's head that they need to go extensive research on a forum or wiki to skill for a playstyle which at least sounds like it's playable for them. I had the experience of trying several roles that sounded good only to find them not what I expected. I don't see how else to approach this besides respec.

Matchmaking tiers. It needs this bad. It is different in EVE when you don't have to go play with the big boys in nullsec until you're further along into your character. Day one of DUST you're fighting protos with the highest tier weapon in their class. It's frustrating, because the engagements are symmetrical. A 16 man team with 16 million SP among them is objectively better and well rounded than a 16 man team with only 8 million SP among them. More damage, more health, better weapons with better parameters. For this reason, its vital that the game try to average out SP between teams, or set limits per pool. Punishing players for being new (not for individual skill) is not a good way to retain a strong and loyal base. I would rather lose to an equal SP player 10 times rather than a multi-million SP player once, because at least I know which death was because of a deficit of skill on my part.

So, tl;dr:

The game is very promising, and has strong fundamentals that set it apart from your typical shooter fair. The game occupies a strange niche between accessible and super hardcore, and the symmetry of match ups punishes new players to a high degree. The game needs to undergo some balancing and diversification, or community retention will be a huge problem for the game and it's future.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of other new and also more experienced players. I ask both parties to consider what it's like to be on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

EDIT:

One last complaint, but it's very important. There is no, no, no, no reason why every character on an account shouldn't be able to gain passive SP. All you're encouraging is for people to make multiple PSN accounts, which brings nothing to the game besides increased server load, because the game is free to play. It makes sense, fiscally, in EVE to have it this way, but not here.

Hello everyone.

Longtime EVE player, wanted to make a transition out of a traditional MMO environment into something that was more pick up and play but still had depth and structure.

I found out about DUST, did a little reading about planned features, invested in a PS3 and got into the meat of it. After playing for about a week now, I thought I'd share some thoughts:

1. Weapon diversity needs to change. Honestly, 90% of my deaths are from assault rifles, specifically the highest tiered "Duvolle" variant, because at least 90% of the players seem to use this weapon. I understand the desire to use what is best, most encompassing, but it's annoying that there's so much variety in this game that goes unused.

2. Vehicles, or lack thereof. There is a huge ceiling for a new player trying to use these, the skill and ISK investment is crazy and also makes your basic ground abilities lackluster compared to equally skilled opponents. HAVs, when I do see them, seem to do okay, but only because most players won't switch to an AT role to deal with them.

3. Dropships, similar to above. Crazy hard to fly, in every sense of the word. Expensive. Role needs to be expanded or better defined.

4. Tier systems in a F2P... Makes me a nervous man. I understand it's related to the way of doing things in EVE, but I think it's bad game design to have high skill investments rewarded with objectively superior weapons (DUVOLLE I AM LOOKING AT YOU). There needs to be side grades rather than Milita < Standard < Mid < Highest. Higher investment should be rewarded with more exotic possibilities, maybe even attachments? I find it annoying I can't put a decent optic on say, a laser rifle, but an SMG? Sure, have a nice Holo scope.

As for some strengths:

1. Time to kill. I think this is the single most important factor for a shooter, and I think DUST (generally) hits it pretty well. The game gives you enough time to retreat, recover, and continue to fight, while still punishing you for making mistakes. Except Duvolles, they **** out a trillion damage a minute. It shows that DUST isn't designed for the casual, because you have to think, as opposed to the classic example of COD that is designed to allow any player to win based on who shoots first without the other person seeing.

2. Aesthetic. Very pretty, well designed and unique per race, though I feel like all I see are gallente mediums (they are the coolest, I swear).

3. The EVE connection. I think the factional warfare systems and EVE involvement are the saving grace, and I also understand that I can't expect this game to be flawless so soon in its development cycle. I think the potential to evolve and grow along EVE is massive, if crossplatform play is properly rewarded.

4. Teamplay. I think the strongest teams seem to be that way because of hard working interaction between roles, I especially like the kind of "trench" warfare that goes on when you have a decent logistics player on your side, it sets up a good hub for the whole team to conduct warfare with.

Lastly, here are my major concerns:

I had to re-roll my every character for the first three days I played, because it is that easy to gimp yourself with bad skill choices. There needs to be a grace period or something where a new player can respec within their first month, or whatever, because It's not exactly going to be in every player's head that they need to go extensive research on a forum or wiki to skill for a playstyle which at least sounds like it's playable for them. I had the experience of trying several roles that sounded good only to find them not what I expected. I don't see how else to approach this besides respec.

Matchmaking tiers. It needs this bad. It is different in EVE when you don't have to go play with the big boys in nullsec until you're further along into your character. Day one of DUST you're fighting protos with the highest tier weapon in their class. It's frustrating, because the engagements are symmetrical. A 16 man team with 16 million SP among them is objectively better and well rounded than a 16 man team with only 8 million SP among them. More damage, more health, better weapons with better parameters. For this reason, its vital that the game try to average out SP between teams, or set limits per pool. Punishing players for being new (not for individual skill) is not a good way to retain a strong and loyal base. I would rather lose to an equal SP player 10 times rather than a multi-million SP player once, because at least I know which death was because of a deficit of skill on my part.

So, tl;dr:

The game is very promising, and has strong fundamentals that set it apart from your typical shooter fair. The game occupies a strange niche between accessible and super hardcore, and the symmetry of match ups punishes new players to a high degree. The game needs to undergo some balancing and diversification, or community retention will be a huge problem for the game and it's future.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of other new and also more experienced players. I ask both parties to consider what it's like to be on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

EDIT:

One last complaint, but it's very important. There is no, no, no, no reason why every character on an account shouldn't be able to gain passive SP. All you're encouraging is for people to make multiple PSN accounts, which brings nothing to the game besides increased server load, because the game is free to play. It makes sense, fiscally, in EVE to have it this way, but not here.

I see this type of statement a lot.

Frankly, I don't know how you can speak for CCP. Have they said they want a pure FPS? Or is it just that you want a pure/core FPS without MMO or RPG elements intruding.

Also, I have to say, a lot of the people whining for nerfs and OP are the FPS players. They find they can't rule and kill everyone, or worse yet they get killed by something, and they cry like babies. Don't blame that on non-FPS players. There is a difference between wanting to give new players a fair shot at enjoying the game and growing the player base and whining like a ***** because your proto gear doesn't protect you from getting dead.

If this has been clarified anywhere, other than forum rants by the opinionated, please drop an uplink to the thread.

oh look a evetard has a opinion about dust. I saw what happend after the fanfest where "evetards" gave CCP positive feedback. And 16 mill SP on a 16 man team? lol on my own i allready have 12 million.

Balance. Not weapon balance but game. A middle ground for MMO and FPS.

Strange enough, if there were rooms for the new berries, I would have to give this room a limit on gear and war points. SP can be passive. WP you have to earn.

Bad idea but..at least a gear limited room, maybe an orbital ambush with out vehicles. While I may be (not maybe) a vehicle driver/ pilot, my gear is 3rd tier, my weapon is first tier. So I can understand the pain.

If im not flying, tanking, or LAV, I might as well be a nub.

I see this type of statement a lot.

Frankly, I don't know how you can speak for CCP. Have they said they want a pure FPS? Or is it just that you want a pure/core FPS without MMO or RPG elements intruding.

Also, I have to say, a lot of the people whining for nerfs and OP are the FPS players. They find they can't rule and kill everyone, or worse yet they get killed by something, and they cry like babies. Don't blame that on non-FPS players. There is a difference between wanting to give new players a fair shot at enjoying the game and growing the player base and whining like a ***** because your proto gear doesn't protect you from getting dead.

If this has been clarified anywhere, other than forum rants by the opinionated, please drop an uplink to the thread.

DUST 514 should have a Certificate system like EVE does, so new players get an idea on what to spend skill points into, and get a future goal without having to look up on the Internet.

Or a simple Skill Planner that looks and functions like the Skill tree, but you don't spend skill points using it. That way, you can increase and decerease your "skills" before actually applying it, and know exactly what you get out of it. Or a simple Preview mode before clicking something to apply all skills.

As for the Duvolle rifle, it's not so much as the rifle itself, as it is the skills accumulated into getting it. The difference is there, but it's not night and day.

For the record, true FPS players believe in a level playing field with minimal leveling/tiered equipment. We think player skill and teamwork should be the only factor in determining who wins. If it were up to me there would be no proto gear or SP. I think it's pretty safe to say its the RPG elements that are the primary source of balancing issues.

this smacks of bs to me. no long-time eve player would think you should be able to jump into a tank with less than 20 million skillpoints.

that's like creating an eve account and jumping into a battleship.

and the last line of your post betrays you. you're no eve player.

We should have been running around the entire beta with nothing but meta level 1 (or 11) gear, and waited for that game to be satisfactorily balanced before introducing different tiers. The EVE mentality does not mesh super well with FPS PvP, and that leads to all this whack-a-mole nerfing.