DUST Search - New Player's Impressions:

Crash Monster wrote:

0 Try Harder wrote:

Remember that it's a FPS game, not a MMO. There were many problems in the last build because all of the MMOers came on forums and said stuff like, "I've been killed by xxxxx too many times". In PvE that's fine, but FPS games are PvP. Just because you die a lot to one gun does not mean that it's OP, it just means that many players are using it.

I see this type of statement a lot.

Frankly, I don't know how you can speak for CCP. Have they said they want a pure FPS? Or is it just that you want a pure/core FPS without MMO or RPG elements intruding.

Also, I have to say, a lot of the people whining for nerfs and OP are the FPS players. They find they can't rule and kill everyone, or worse yet they get killed by something, and they cry like babies. Don't blame that on non-FPS players. There is a difference between wanting to give new players a fair shot at enjoying the game and growing the player base and whining like a ***** because your proto gear doesn't protect you from getting dead.

If this has been clarified anywhere, other than forum rants by the opinionated, please drop an uplink to the thread.

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Buster Friently Rosen Association 412	Posted - 2013.05.13 05:29:00 - [31] - Quote Aythadis Smith wrote: Strange enough, if there were rooms for the new berries, I would have to give this room a limit on gear and war points. SP can be passive. WP you have to earn. Bad idea but..at least a gear limited room, maybe an orbital ambush with out vehicles. While I may be (not maybe) a vehicle driver/ pilot, my gear is 3rd tier, my weapon is first tier. So I can understand the pain. If im not flying, tanking, or LAV, I might as well be a nub. The newbie room will initially be WP limited. I wouldn't be surprised to see them implement an additional SP limitation if people abuse the WP limitation.
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 67	Posted - 2013.05.13 07:00:00 - [32] - Quote I understand that CCP doing things differently but (as this threat highlight) newberryes need care and some praticefield. Its good to know that they working on it, I hope they will do it right.
Draco Dustflier Planetary Response Organisation 50	Posted - 2013.05.13 07:25:00 - [33] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: 0 Try Harder wrote: Remember that it's a FPS game, not a MMO. There were many problems in the last build because all of the MMOers came on forums and said stuff like, "I've been killed by xxxxx too many times". In PvE that's fine, but FPS games are PvP. Just because you die a lot to one gun does not mean that it's OP, it just means that many players are using it. I see this type of statement a lot. Frankly, I don't know how you can speak for CCP. Have they said they want a pure FPS? Or is it just that you want a pure/core FPS without MMO or RPG elements intruding. Also, I have to say, a lot of the people whining for nerfs and OP are the FPS players. They find they can't rule and kill everyone, or worse yet they get killed by something, and they cry like babies. Don't blame that on non-FPS players. There is a difference between wanting to give new players a fair shot at enjoying the game and growing the player base and whining like a ***** because your proto gear doesn't protect you from getting dead. If this has been clarified anywhere, other than forum rants by the opinionated, please drop an uplink to the thread. you cannot make an mmofps with mmo rules unless its a persistent world. in an arena shooter, (face it, that is what this is), you cannot give people so much health that a new player can sneak up behind them, start shooting, and have the other player turn aroud and get wasted before the proto even bleeds into armor. and no, fps players arent the problem. we only complain when something is legitimately op, like the tac rifle (hqlf a swcond to kill? really)? also, i went 21 and 2 with scrambler pistols only last match i played. gonna start whining about how a 300,000 isk fit shouldnt die from a sidearm now?
J'Hiera Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.13 07:31:00 - [34] - Quote DUST 514 should have a Certificate system like EVE does, so new players get an idea on what to spend skill points into, and get a future goal without having to look up on the Internet. Or a simple Skill Planner that looks and functions like the Skill tree, but you don't spend skill points using it. That way, you can increase and decerease your "skills" before actually applying it, and know exactly what you get out of it. Or a simple Preview mode before clicking something to apply all skills. As for the Duvolle rifle, it's not so much as the rifle itself, as it is the skills accumulated into getting it. The difference is there, but it's not night and day.
Otoky DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement 68	Posted - 2013.05.13 07:42:00 - [35] - Quote J'Hiera wrote: DUST 514 should have a Certificate system like EVE does, so new players get an idea on what to spend skill points into, and get a future goal without having to look up on the Internet. Or a simple Skill Planner that looks and functions like the Skill tree, but you don't spend skill points using it. That way, you can increase and decerease your "skills" before actually applying it, and know exactly what you get out of it. Or a simple Preview mode before clicking something to apply all skills. As for the Duvolle rifle, it's not so much as the rifle itself, as it is the skills accumulated into getting it. The difference is there, but it's not night and day. +1
Papillon Leblanc Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:24:00 - [36] - Quote I'd like to post the contents of my meta critic review here, and encourage you to rate it positively. I also would like to add the disclaimer that I really really really want to see DUST 514 and CCP as a whole continue to succeed. DUST 514 is schizophrenic. It has awoken, nominally, on May 14th, not knowing who or what it is supposed to be, and as a result, is an unfortunately mediocre experience. Before I get into the meat of the discussion, let me give the following disclaimer: I want to love this game, and I want to see it succeed. The PS3 was, in my opinion, one of the worst decisions. Not because I dislike the console, or Sony, or because I prefer other platforms. It is at the end of its development cycle and lifespan, with the PS4 on the near horizon. More importantly, the core audience of people who would be receptive to a game like DUST don't own a PS3, or weren't willing to purchase one on the hope they would like one free to play game. I think it is fair to state that a hardcore, complexity-craving, long term audience is most likely to be found on the PC platform, a platform which is incidentally the most receptive to a FPS game. The game on the PS3, with controller or KB and mouse just does not handle well. The movement is not visceral, the gunplay is stiff, and you feel as though you're struggling against the controls rather than the opponent you're fighting. The game is set out to be a sort of a hybrid of MMO and FPS, and it excels at neither. Character progression in an FPS doesn't work in an MMO styled system, and it shows in DUST. Your starting mercenary will scantly be able to spec into a worthwhile build with the 500,000 SP that you are granted. You can specialize into a decent weapon or suit; not both simultaneously. This as been somewhat addressed with the introduction of the instant battle academy,a special match making queue for "new" players, but the problem runs deeper. Being objectively weak compared to older players is fine in say, EVE Online, because you don't contend with those players until you're ready, and EVE functions on an asymmetrical basis, where a dedicated swarm of new pilots could easily topple a more established player or players. That doesn't work in a 32 v 32 setting, simply put. If the other team has an SP advantage, they are objectively better suited to victory than you, something which does not sit well in the palate of an FPS player, where skill, tactics, and reflex should determine the winner. Additionally, weapons have vertical progression. The militia variant is outclassed by standard, standard outclassed by advanced, and advanced outclassed by prototype. The seeming variety in the weapon and skill trees than is little more than flat upgrades with two possible "side" upgrades, usually an assault or tactical variant. With the release of the game and the addition of Scrambler rifles, Flaylocks, and a few other toys, the weapon diversity has improved, but it is still the case that a the assault rifles rule supreme. They offer more versatility and damage than any other weapon class, and this imbalance stifles the unique and innovative weapon categories that CCP built, developed, deployed, and then decidedly handicapped. Though the game doesn't have a class system, it does have specializations you as a player will move into, basically: Light, Medium, or Heavy, with sub groupings, such as Scout, Logistics, and Assault. Simply put, it's a long long road to end up into any reasonable specialization, which would be okay if you wouldn't be fighting players in these roles in the more meaningful factional warfare and planetary conquest game modes (which don't offer disparate gameplay from instant action, I might add). Vehicles are present, though the ceiling to access them is quite high, except for a light scout vehicle which every player may employ for free. It is a testament to the poor fundamental gunplay that in public matches, it is often more effective to ram opponents to death with a free car than shoot them with the gun you've spent 500k SP to get to a playable level. Tanks have received a much needed buff, but along with the consistently nonperforming dropships, are basically only playable as luxury items a single HAV or Dropship loss can cost as much as 10 matches worth of rewards to replace. I would continue, but am rapidly approaching the limit for this review. I will finish by stating the following: DUST 514 tries to be an MMO with the depth and complexity of EVE, as well as a tactical "battlefield" shooter such as BF3 or Planetside, and in doing so excels at neither. The gunplay will leave you wont to hop onto a more polished game, and MMO aspect is still shallow compared to EVE. The reason I give this game a very very generous score of 7 is because of the promise. It is my hope that a lukewarm reception will for CCP to look long and hard at this game, and create a new niche that thrives on both the hardcore nature of their player base, buthas rewarding, enjoyable, and meaningful core gameplay. Thanks for your time, and I hope this guides your decision before deciding to reward CCP with your hard-earned money. http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/dust-514/user-reviews
XSlor LaDispute Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.15 19:04:00 - [37] - Quote I'm fairly new to the EVE world. I played a little on my buds account and it's not my type of game. I'm an FPS junkie and have been playing FPS' since my first fps - Wolfenstein 3D... My first impression of the game as I logged in was... screw all the skills and crap... let's get into the action and I'll customize later when I get a feel for the game... So I jumped into the game initially as a sniper... and WOW... it was terrible!!! It was incredibly difficult for me to get on target and I quickly jumped ship to an assault rifle - which made WAY more sense... So here's what I think the reality of the game is... a) this is their first FPS I believe??? So, good job! it's good... you can tell they have taken a little from everyone else and mashed it all together plus adding some extra awesomeness... b) Has any company ever release a perfect shooter right off the bat??? HELLLLZZZZ NO! What I think I will like about this game is that it will be familiar for a long time to come... I hope it's like Counter-Strike in the sense that the game is over 10 years old and is STILL super popular... I also Play COD and BF and I just don't like how bland it gets after a while... and instead of making the game better they just pump out a new game every year and hope the mechanics work together... The problem with new games is that the balancing takes a long time to perfect... All FPS games have had over powered over used guns, equipment, and "stuff"... And for that reason you will see a lot of people using the best gear, because the game is so new... Eventually the game should balance out... I hope... I don't think I've encountered these OP guns everyone is talking about tho yet... so who knows... I felt I was doing ok with the generic load outs the game gives you from the start... The one thing for me though is the skill tree... I don't understand it yet lol... I don't know what I want or need...
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 740	Posted - 2013.05.15 19:17:00 - [38] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: For the record, true FPS players believe in a level playing field with minimal leveling/tiered equipment. We think player skill and teamwork should be the only factor in determining who wins. If it were up to me there would be no proto gear or SP. I think it's pretty safe to say its the RPG elements that are the primary source of balancing issues. This is very true. CCP has decided to build a castle on shifting sands. We should have been running around the entire beta with nothing but meta level 1 (or 11) gear, and waited for that game to be satisfactorily balanced before introducing different tiers. The EVE mentality does not mesh super well with FPS PvP, and that leads to all this whack-a-mole nerfing. The problem is that the RPG elements are also the game's main draw. It's just ****** Battlefield in space without them.
Rowley Pup Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2013.05.15 19:36:00 - [39] - Quote low genius wrote: this smacks of bs to me. no long-time eve player would think you should be able to jump into a tank with less than 20 million skillpoints. that's like creating an eve account and jumping into a battleship. and the last line of your post betrays you. you're no eve player. I would actually question your EVE credentials. EVE is more balanced, with regard to progression than DUST is. His comments about the strictly linear progression is quite accurate, and when compared to EVE, very out of character for the universe these two games reside in. A player can easily handle high tier pve scebario in a tier 1 boat, as can a player handle PvP quite spectacularly in one of the simplest tier 1 frigates. Scale and balance are far from linear in EVE, and are more about the scenario than a player's relative SP amount. Additionally, EVE handles the vet vs newblood much better as well, in that it is much harder to leverage your higher SP amounts, amounts, as the balance between ships and tiers limit a vet's ability to leverage their 20 million SP while piloting a single, specialized ship. This is a primary balance issue, nothing in DUST limits the player with higher SP from driving the best tank money can buy, while wearing the best armor, best weapons, etc. Having trouble in your HAV? Hop out, recall, and do it on foot. Having trouble on foot? Call in your tank and hop inside. The skill differential is far more pronounced than it is in EVE (side note: this is why I believe some sort of vehicle based suit, with vehicle friendly equipment, should be added). Ultimately, the OP is quite correct, and is frankly, very generous, as he could have easily trashed the game. We as a community must not allow our excitement for the potential of DUST to blind us from the realities. DUST has a fine foundation, but has a long way to go, and needs to work toward greater parity with EVE's intelligent systems toward balance. The core FPS elements need tobe crisp and of the best standards, with regard to similar games in the genre. Beyond that, the basics of progression and balance need to be balanced and fine tuned. I want DUST to succeed and thrive, but in its current state, it has serious issues, and failing to address these in an intelligent, and impactful manner only serves to encourage these problems.
Rowley Pup Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2013.05.15 19:45:00 - [40] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: We should have been running around the entire beta with nothing but meta level 1 (or 11) gear, and waited for that game to be satisfactorily balanced before introducing different tiers. The EVE mentality does not mesh super well with FPS PvP, and that leads to all this whack-a-mole nerfing. This is too true. Being new to the genre, CCP should have worked out the entire FPS mechanic before creating the RPG elements. FPS gamers are amazingly picky these days, they are spoiled by 60fps gameplay, robust mechanics, engaging modes, and a variety ofmaps. DUST, does not deliver in these areas, due to a lack of focus on core FPS elements.



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