DUST Search - Scout

Ivan Avogadro wrote:

I'm not as thrilled with Scouts this build as last build. 2 reasons:

1) They completely removed my second equipment option for the sidearm option. Sidearms are nice, but I preferred the old Type-2. Assaults want sidearms to have options in a firefight. I was equip to have options in the backfield. Shotgun is typically all I use. And even if it isn't the Scout, I firmly believe SOMEONE should get to pull off equip combos besides Logi.

2) The universal nerf to scanning was too much. Nowadays most people's radars only work up to 20m WITH BONUSES. That's right where CQC starts, and is DEEP inside the range of every normal gun. So the only benefit to being stealthed occurs AFTER I've snuck up on my target. If they spot me it's because I was dumb with cover, not because I skilled poorly. Likewise, if I get the kill it was my innate sneakiness and not my dampeners. I only need to increase my dampening to avoid ADV or higher Active Scanners, which nobody runs because few people have enough equip slots (or if Logi, the SP to skill up 4 equip pieces to proto).

So to recap, the role is weirdly defined ATM to be "small assault" and stealth is currently in need of a buff. The only saving grace to scouts is the speed. They play a faster game than everyone else. Fast on foot, most endurance for sprint, best shield regen. If you tank one properly, you can be a good Speed Assault. But with less slots and CPU, you might as well just speed up the Assault instead of tanking up a Scout. But that's about it until they get some love.

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Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:38:00 - [1] - Quote Any thoughts on Scouts this buid? All last build scouts were too few because of multiple disadvantages of playing as a scout. I wonder how many ppl are specing into scout this buid. What are the pluses and minuses of being a scout? I spec'ed into Minmatar scout (yeah, the ugly one) I noticed a few things myself: - I am harder to kill now even in a basic suit (I attribute this to some soft of hit detection problem or a hidden 'on purpose' glitch by CCP that makes initial shots delievered to a scout either miss or deal little damage - I think that's their attempt at balancing the suit; so instead of giving scout more shield they gave something like a mini-resist that works for a few seconds when someone is just starting to fire at you). I don't believe that this extra survivability reflects the overall weapon nerf, however. - My radar is extremely weak now. I used to rely on my radar to milk my scout suit bonuses from an otherwise disadvantaged suit but this does not seem to work this build anymore, even though I sank quite a bit of SP in radar based skills. - Low CPU fitting issues have become outrageous since the CPU/PG skills are so SP expensive now. This is painfully obvious in a scout suit. Please, add you thoughts about scout and its uses here.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 30	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:53:00 - [2] - Quote I have really hesitated to spec into scout this build for the reasons that you mention. In the last build even with the dragonfly suit I started to do really well given the scan range bonus 25m v.s. 15m, and the precision/scanning 45/45 db. Additionally, the speed really helped. This build still keeps most of the speed, and the scanning stats, but with the range on all suits being equal (and low, at 10m) the scout is really penalized here. Even with the Gallente scout bonus maxxed out for an extra 50% scan range, you get to a whopping 15m. It could work for me if the scanning range was the only change. But for me, given that scouts now only have 1 EQ slot the various infilitration roles are more difficult (no drop/remote fits), as are support roles (injector/nanohive). Additionally, the Gallente suit has 1 high slot (prototype tier) which the player needs to decide to use for a shield extender, damage mod or a precision enhancer.... well, the flexibility isn't there. The jury is still out, but I'm really hesitating on speccing into scouts. At the moment I'm just testing w/ the Gallente dragonfly and Minmitar militia scout. Plus, the minmatar scout looks like some Dune/Mummy reject..... fugly.
Aisha Ctarl The Vanguardians Orion Empire 47	Posted - 2013.05.09 19:55:00 - [3] - Quote I got owned by some scouts earlier today. I'm Amarr assault and they simply ran up to me blindingly quick and shot me in the face with their shotguns...I couldn't even react in time.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 543	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:01:00 - [4] - Quote Scouts are amazing compared to last build in terms of hit and run tactics. You can successfully pull of a speed tank now with it Now I'm a bit biased but i think the Gallente one is the better choice because it has 4 lows and armor speed tank fit barely uses CPU compared to a shield speed tank. As a matter of fact.. For me personally, I'm having trouble with the pg lol not CPU. (Damn red stims take lots of pg!)! I think the radar nerf was a good thing. Ppl now can have almost no chance of seeing me on radar unless I'm actually "seen" Overall, I love scouts how they are now.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 51	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:06:00 - [5] - Quote Went with Gallente scout for this build. Here are my thoughts. A stiff breeze still kills us. In relation, the reduced scan radius is quite helpful for sneaking, so I'm fine with dying to a fleck of dust. The bonus to scan radius for the gallente means that I can usually detect them before they detect me, even without modules. Weirdly, the adv gallente sit has 2 high power slots. But I personally prefer the low slots to put things like dampeners, hacking modules etc. Low cpu and pg is a bit of an issue, slightly more so than last time. Though all in all, I personally think the scout is quite viable. Just try not to be seen.
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 227	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:10:00 - [6] - Quote I played scout in the last build, an dI went minmatar this build. The reason you are taking less damage, IMO is by properly strafing. Strafing wasn't in the last build and running was more like being a tron bike. This build you can bob, weave, and running is a lot more physics based, i.e. you take running steps as opposed to floating across the ground. And I think they definitely fixed the hit boxes to reflect the smaller suit. In the last build, I am pretty sure scouts were running with a hit box along the lines of an assault suit at least. I have noticed it is harder to detect the enemy around me, but at the same time, it is easier to sneak up on people. I am now constantly catching people off guard. I had almost 11m skill points to toss around so I am running a basic proto. Instead of going racial pro to I also went basic proto minmatar medium frame (beast with 5 high slots!) so I can assure you once you get skilled up the CPU shortage alleviates. I run whatever mods I want without a cpu module. I am only rocking an advanced level AR however. I still have plenty of CPU/PG to get into a proto AR. I like the look. It's very mad max
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 82	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:20:00 - [7] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I got owned by some scouts earlier today. I'm Amarr assault and they simply ran up to me blindingly quick and shot me in the face with their shotguns...I couldn't even react in time. Why do i feel guilty about this?
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 82	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:23:00 - [8] - Quote Besides the blah they game us this build. I still spec into it. Went for my "ghost" suit. same as last built. I haunt objectives. so RE, shotgun and smg FTW.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:24:00 - [9] - Quote Why did they give Gallente more CPU? Is that lore-specific because the Minny with all those highs would probably need more CPU
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2882	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:24:00 - [10] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: This build still keeps most of the speed, and the scanning stats, but with the range on all suits being equal (and low, at 10m) the scout is really penalized here. Even with the Gallente scout bonus maxed out for an extra 50% scan range, you get to a whopping 15m. There's also a range skill which buffs your scan range by 10% per level. Stack it with the Gallente Scout skill and you get 22.5m.

Denak Kalamari BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 148	Posted - 2013.05.09 20:33:00 - [11] - Quote I specced into Gallente scouts exclusively, and I can definitely say that I am harder to kill right now. I don't know if it's my skills, the hit detection being bad, the people being unused to their new weapons or simply my enemies just being crap at shooting, but I am being a lot more effective with my running around and sneaking. Combined with a shotgun and remote explosives, I am really deadly in the battlefield, even at a basic level scout suit. The decreased scan radius on all dropsuits has also helped me greatly. As for the Matari scouts, a friend of mine specced into them and his opinion is the following: They run insanely fast, and with prototype nova kinves you are dead the instant a Minnie scout can hit you.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 31	Posted - 2013.05.14 23:32:00 - [12] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: This build still keeps most of the speed, and the scanning stats, but with the range on all suits being equal (and low, at 10m) the scout is really penalized here. Even with the Gallente scout bonus maxed out for an extra 50% scan range, you get to a whopping 15m. There's also a range skill which buffs your scan range by 10% per level. Stack it with the Gallente Scout skill and you get 22.5m. True that, and it does help. Plus with the low slots of the Gallente you can still add some range extender modules on there. I tend to discount it because it's a buff that every suit has access to though. Heck, the gallente logi proto has 5 low slots and starts w/ the same scan range and a precision of 50db, so it could be a more effective (but slower) scan scout. I went logi instead this build on both of my main characters, and although I enjoy the added fittments and flexibility, it's hard getting over being so slow and easy to hit.
VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 101	Posted - 2013.05.14 23:49:00 - [13] - Quote Are Scouts good with the Scramber Rifle?
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 206	Posted - 2013.05.15 00:24:00 - [14] - Quote I'm not as thrilled with Scouts this build as last build. 2 reasons: 1) They completely removed my second equipment option for the sidearm option. Sidearms are nice, but I preferred the old Type-2. Assaults want sidearms to have options in a firefight. I was equip to have options in the backfield. Shotgun is typically all I use. And even if it isn't the Scout, I firmly believe SOMEONE should get to pull off equip combos besides Logi. 2) The universal nerf to scanning was too much. Nowadays most people's radars only work up to 20m WITH BONUSES. That's right where CQC starts, and is DEEP inside the range of every normal gun. So the only benefit to being stealthed occurs AFTER I've snuck up on my target. If they spot me it's because I was dumb with cover, not because I skilled poorly. Likewise, if I get the kill it was my innate sneakiness and not my dampeners. I only need to increase my dampening to avoid ADV or higher Active Scanners, which nobody runs because few people have enough equip slots (or if Logi, the SP to skill up 4 equip pieces to proto). So to recap, the role is weirdly defined ATM to be "small assault" and stealth is currently in need of a buff. The only saving grace to scouts is the speed. They play a faster game than everyone else. Fast on foot, most endurance for sprint, best shield regen. If you tank one properly, you can be a good Speed Assault. But with less slots and CPU, you might as well just speed up the Assault instead of tanking up a Scout. But that's about it until they get some love.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2013.05.15 01:15:00 - [15] - Quote So should I forego precision enhancement and profile dampening for now and skill up other stuff?
Icy Xenosmilus Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 245	Posted - 2013.05.15 01:19:00 - [16] - Quote Hit and Run is extremely effective with Minmitar Scout now. If you watch one of CEOPyrex's videos, he runs into a group of enemies, shotguns one on the way, then speeds out before they react, taking minimal damage.
Snaps Tremor The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 216	Posted - 2013.05.15 01:31:00 - [17] - Quote Icy Xenosmilus wrote: Hit and Run is extremely effective with Minmitar Scout now. If you watch one of CEOPyrex's videos, he runs into a group of enemies, shotguns one on the way, then speeds out before they react, taking minimal damage. That's just how shotgun scouting is. You don't need the Minmatar's tiny speed bonus to zip through four bewildered AR users expecting a midrange engagement and turn them into three on the way.
Icedslayer SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 75	Posted - 2013.05.15 01:57:00 - [18] - Quote I've been a scout since May of last year and i love it. Minmatar Scout suit is beast, it has both speed and shield power too outlast almost anything that's thrown at it. But just like any suit if you use it the wrong way your going to hate it.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 270	Posted - 2013.05.15 02:46:00 - [19] - Quote VLIGHT5 wrote: Are Scouts good with the Scramber Rifle? Not really. Scouts need weapons that do massive initial damage. Nova Knives are perfect for this. On one of my alts I got the prototype flaylock pistol and it's amazing, could also work with scout but haven't tried that combo yet.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 210	Posted - 2013.05.15 17:44:00 - [20] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: So should I forego precision enhancement and profile dampening for now and skill up other stuff? I would only because they are cost to 1mil SP apiece to get to lvl 5, and they offer little bonus. Right now Dampening and Precision are a members only club. Your skills will only matter to someone else with those skills. I would wager almost all deaths (non-shotgun or nova knifes) currently occur well outside the range where scanning occurs. So every time you die further than 25 or 30 meters from your foe, your Dampening wasn't even affecting him. You'd be better served for the time being to skill up your other areas and move to stealth once it's been readdressed.

Surt gods end Demon Ronin 102	Posted - 2013.05.15 17:55:00 - [21] - Quote We are the last of the ninja cowboys. I don't get a heavies nor a sniper kinda kills, but I also don't die. Like 0. When I do, it's usually my fault for braking away from my routine. I haunt objectives. looks back at the two girls snoring softly in bed at his merc quarters Besides you can't complain as a scout. we do it for the ladies.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 17:55:00 - [22] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: VLIGHT5 wrote: Are Scouts good with the Scramber Rifle? Not really. Scouts need weapons that do massive initial damage. Nova Knives are perfect for this. On one of my alts I got the prototype flaylock pistol and it's amazing, could also work with scout but haven't tried that combo yet. Massive amounts of initial damage eh? Like, say take a gun that hits incredibly hard to begin with, does 120% to shields, and then charge it up to deliver a massive blast of damage that Ive read can do over 500-600 damage if a HS? Seems like a perfect scout weapon. The charged SR is actually amazing for a scout on two fronts. 1) it provides 1hk or near 1hk ability on unspecting targets even at decent ranges. 2) In the times you are forced into a group fight, the charged shot allows you to charge behind cover and deal a lot of damage in a short time, limiting the amount of time your exposed to fire. Which is huge. As a scout I always feel bad that im rather useless as part of a blob, resorting to flanking. Now I can be useful. Or I can still flank, and deal massive damage to dudes who dont know im at their six.
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 306	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:02:00 - [23] - Quote Winmatar scout has been a dream come true for me. Nova Knives are a legit weapon now. Good dancing can keep you alive against a full squad of enemies, at least for a bit. People shooting you from the side when you're strafing someone still kills you. Basically only the stuff you don't see will kill you.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 416	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:11:00 - [24] - Quote Any mouse users? How is the fast turn speed cap, does it make twitch shots land?
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 102	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:11:00 - [25] - Quote SR is pretty bad ass. Until you shoot a heavy and he doesn't go down. I prefer my shotty. It shreds heavies like paper.
R'adeh Hunt The Unholy Legion of Darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 22	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:17:00 - [26] - Quote Minmatar scout knifer here...loving it. Not as forgiving as an assault/heavy if you f*** up, but once you get the hang of it everything's fine :)
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:24:00 - [27] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: SR is pretty bad ass. Until you shoot a heavy and he doesn't go down. I prefer my shotty. It shreds heavies like paper. The thing about a heavy is, you can VERY easily stay out of their range. And they are so slow and easy to hit that your 56+ damage per uncharged shot still wrecks them. Though chances are someone will come in and get the kill instead of you. Its also easy to finish them off with a cooked nade after they slowly lumber around a "safe corner"
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 306	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:26:00 - [28] - Quote The thing with the SCR is that charging means you can't sprint, and a walking scout is easy pickings for someone who can aim.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:26:00 - [29] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: I'm not as thrilled with Scouts this build as last build. 2 reasons: 1) They completely removed my second equipment option for the sidearm option. Sidearms are nice, but I preferred the old Type-2. Assaults want sidearms to have options in a firefight. I was equip to have options in the backfield. Shotgun is typically all I use. And even if it isn't the Scout, I firmly believe SOMEONE should get to pull off equip combos besides Logi. 2) The universal nerf to scanning was too much. Nowadays most people's radars only work up to 20m WITH BONUSES. That's right where CQC starts, and is DEEP inside the range of every normal gun. So the only benefit to being stealthed occurs AFTER I've snuck up on my target. If they spot me it's because I was dumb with cover, not because I skilled poorly. Likewise, if I get the kill it was my innate sneakiness and not my dampeners. I only need to increase my dampening to avoid ADV or higher Active Scanners, which nobody runs because few people have enough equip slots (or if Logi, the SP to skill up 4 equip pieces to proto). So to recap, the role is weirdly defined ATM to be "small assault" and stealth is currently in need of a buff. The only saving grace to scouts is the speed. They play a faster game than everyone else. Fast on foot, most endurance for sprint, best shield regen. If you tank one properly, you can be a good Speed Assault. But with less slots and CPU, you might as well just speed up the Assault instead of tanking up a Scout. But that's about it until they get some love. CQC at 20m? To me CQC is just out of arms length not 20m.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:32:00 - [30] - Quote Sontie wrote: The thing with the SCR is that charging means you can't sprint, and a walking scout is easy pickings for someone who can aim. You dont need to charge while out in the open. Find a target, hide behind something, charge, pop out and BLAMMO. And a strafe scout is still hard for most players to take out, so you can charge and strafe pretty well.



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