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Charlotte O'Dell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 307	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:40:00 - [1] - Quote ok, Im a tanker with zero skills in infantry and let me tell ya'll: you're lucky to get 2 kills on foot. Every match, right now, is filled with entire teams in proto gear and tanks with proto everything. I was being mowed down by duvolles in half a clip and they were taking 3 full clips of my mlt assault rifle and not dying. Dropships were destroying me every time I was spotted, too. Really, this game is absolutely impossible to pick up. However, I have a suggestion that is not a nerf and does not reduce the potency of the vets' gear. The solution: make STD gear very easy to skill into. Give a new merc enough skill points out of the box to skill into STD gear and at least level 2 in the core skills. Give them a road map for said skills so they aren't lost. Perhaps an in game video that plays upon making a new character which shows how to join a corp, how to pick a corp, how to skill into a specific field without wasting SP, and then a training course- a boot camp, if you will. Starter corps also need a change. A player should immediately put into a starter corp that is populated by teachers. I know it's crazy, but if new players were immediately given the option to join Dust University or Bojo's School of the Trades, this game would be a little easier to handle. Sure, these places exist, but a new player will not find it unless someone points them at it. As of now, new players are thrown to the wolves. Sure, those of us that have stuck around have become vicious wolves that can rip apart these new scrubs 7 at a time, but it means that eventually, we're only gonna be playing the same 5000 people forever and that's no fun. Perhaps, if for the first 2 weeks of a character's creation, they would be given the option to only be put in battles with other characters who have existed for 2 weeks or less. After that, they can no longer use that battle finder option. This will work because nobody is getting nerfed. Nobody is getting buffed. Everything stays the same except new players won't be as lost in the sauce as they are now and the vets can find new people to play with. This game is becoming a stagnant pool and I'm sick of it. If you respond, please try not to troll. I really want to hear from the guys with 9-13 million SP as well as the guys with less than 1 million. WE ALL KNOW NERFS DON'T WORK.
Dazereth the 2nd Stoned Kloned Killers 19	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:41:00 - [2] - Quote But didn't you hear, it's all about paying your dues, and nubs can totally hold their own no problem against full proto-teams. Cry more /end sarcasm
Balzich Rotaine Rotaine Shipping Inc 51	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:45:00 - [3] - Quote Just afk in the mcc that seems to be what the "pros" and "vets" do
Charlotte O'Dell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 307	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:47:00 - [4] - Quote No solutions.
Severance Pay Planetary Response Organization 179	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:53:00 - [5] - Quote Charlotte's idea is sound. I find little wrong with it. 4m skill points to new players, or a tutorial that gives skill points if you complete it. In MMORPGs there is are numorous tutorial quests that can take you from level 1 straight to level 10. You have te option to skip them, but you'd be crazy to pass on easy levelups.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 149	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:54:00 - [6] - Quote The solutions are Faction Warfare and Planetary Conquest. Those game modes will be far more profitable, especially for running proto suits. The matches will be tougher and will draw in top end teams who enjoy challenges. Also if you look at the skill tree you will notice that SP actually works in new players favor, the basic suites went from 8x down to 6x so its a lot faster for basic proto and all the weapons requirements stayed the same. Its easy to build a decent armor suit as you only need basic plates, and once you get shield extenders to level 5, your basic suit to level 3. and your weapon to lvl 3 you have a decent killer that can compete in all instant battle matches easily. Thats obtainable in 2 week with most of it coming in the first week.
steadyhand amarr NW WARLORDS 489	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:55:00 - [7] - Quote never thought i would say this, but basic tanks need a bit of a buff i killed 4 in FW today with just scrub AV nades. if i was working with others that would have been fine. but i just charged the dam thing and spammed nades its need to be able to take 4-5 as that's still dooable but allows the tank time to react. dam i hate agreeing with the community
Aegis Scientiafide Planetary Response Organisation 14	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:58:00 - [8] - Quote Agreed, it's definitely a problem that needs to be resolved. My feedback on the matter: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=757409#post757409
Balzich Rotaine Rotaine Shipping Inc 52	Posted - 2013.05.08 20:58:00 - [9] - Quote I say don't initiate the weekly sp cap until a player reaches 4 mil. That way they can grind to their hearts delight until they can afford a proper fitting.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 199	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:01:00 - [10] - Quote Another solution... give new players a default area to play where they are thrown in with players that have earned over X skill points. Allow them to opt into higher SP regions any time they want. Edit: And by region I just mean player matching... nothing complicated. Edit Edit: OP, thanks for the no-nonsense no-hysterics informative post.

Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 373	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:01:00 - [11] - Quote I used to be against it but I think that having a separate pool for players below 4mil sp is a great idea. No free SP. Let the nubs kill each other until they have enough to buy a decent suit and decent gun and then throw them in with everyone else.
Severance Pay Planetary Response Organization 179	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:02:00 - [12] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: never thought i would say this, but basic tanks need a bit of a buff i killed 4 in FW today with just scrub AV nades. if i was working with others that would have been fine. but i just charged the dam thing and spammed nades its need to be able to take 4-5 as that's still dooable but allows the tank time to react. dam i hate agreeing with the community CCP is not in a buffing mood. What you said probably doomed AV nades, nade nerf imminent.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 240	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:03:00 - [13] - Quote Frankly, I feel sorry for the new players. I wreck them when I come across them, almost every time. Nerfing may not be the solution - but the gap between basic and prototype gear is so ludicrously wide right now. With a gk0, ~500 armour, which is significantly less than some of the shield fits out there, I can wade through militia fire. Sure, they're not hitting every shot, but it's completely unreasonable to expect new players to hit every shot just so they can come anywhere close to competing. In the meantime, I can three shot some of the militia fits - Proto TAR + triple damage mods butchers newbies in the blink of an eye. Gear progession is nice, sure. But when the people with the best gear are so vastly superior the newer people simply cannot get into the game. It doesn't help that it takes a ton of SP to get close to what I and a lot of other people have. The prototype gear right now isn't even limited by isk somewhat like it was previously. I have two hundred mil - this is enough to run prototype gear for months, even if I do awfully in every single match. The other issue is that of squads. Squad gameplay is fun and rewarding, sure. New players can still get into squads, but again, they need to be shown how to get there, and if that's the case they're at the point where they can join a training corp. That leaves a bunch of people stuck against 6 man protosquads. I don't think that 6 man squads in pub matches has been good for the game. Games are even more one-sided than in Chromosome - I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a balanced match. It certainly doesn't help that orbitals are even easier to get with 6 people, and so the newbies are also contending with unavoidable instant kill death from the skies. Matchmaking and tutorials would solve a lot of this. A good tutorial system is crucial to getting new players in - this is a complex game, and people are just chucked in at the deep end and left to drown. EvE players are used to this - a large proportion of people still playing are also EvE players, compared to the newberry swarms previously. Matchmaking is needed. Badly. I have had matches where there are two full protosquads on my team and it's such a slaughterfest that I'm genuinely sad for the NPC corp people on the other team. Segregation by SP and gear is against the spirit of New Eden, sure. Matchmaking won't be in planetary conquest and faction warfare though, due to the nature of how you get in the battles. But if it was put into pubmatches, where the majority of fights take place, this game would be so much better for everyone, pretty much. Higher end players have more competitive matches, and newer players have an easier time of things. EDIT: Having gear actually properly balanced and core gameplay done properly would probably help new player retention as well.
Justin Tymes Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:07:00 - [14] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: The solutions are Faction Warfare and Planetary Conquest. Those game modes will be far more profitable, especially for running proto suits. The matches will be tougher and will draw in top end teams who enjoy challenges. Also if you look at the skill tree you will notice that SP actually works in new players favor, the basic suites went from 8x down to 6x so its a lot faster for basic proto and all the weapons requirements stayed the same. Its easy to build a decent armor suit as you only need basic plates, and once you get shield extenders to level 5, your basic suit to level 3. and your weapon to lvl 3 you have a decent killer that can compete in all instant battle matches easily. Thats obtainable in 2 week with most of it coming in the first week. Those aren't solutions. "We'll lets put a new mode in and hope that vets don't pubstomp" is completely ignoring the problem. And that's BS, proto vets in Calogi suits will outclass you completely and still stomp you to the ground.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 469	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:09:00 - [15] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: The solutions are Faction Warfare and Planetary Conquest. Those game modes will be far more profitable, especially for running proto suits. The matches will be tougher and will draw in top end teams who enjoy challenges. This, and much larger playerbase so that matchmaking can actually work.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 149	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:14:00 - [16] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Deluxe Edition wrote: The solutions are Faction Warfare and Planetary Conquest. Those game modes will be far more profitable, especially for running proto suits. The matches will be tougher and will draw in top end teams who enjoy challenges. Also if you look at the skill tree you will notice that SP actually works in new players favor, the basic suites went from 8x down to 6x so its a lot faster for basic proto and all the weapons requirements stayed the same. Its easy to build a decent armor suit as you only need basic plates, and once you get shield extenders to level 5, your basic suit to level 3. and your weapon to lvl 3 you have a decent killer that can compete in all instant battle matches easily. Thats obtainable in 2 week with most of it coming in the first week. Those aren't solutions. "We'll lets put a new mode in and hope that vets don't pubstomp" is completely ignoring the problem. And that's BS, proto vets in Calogi suits will outclass you completely and still stomp you to the ground. Whenever you see a proto die twice in a public ambush game they lost isk that match.... isk might not seem important right now after the asset buyback but it will go quick. After a few months of PC ISK will matter more than a fancy K/d.
Frontline Medic On-Sight-Response 5	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:17:00 - [17] - Quote I have not seen many tanks and more basic protos than race protos,seeing lotts of proto ARs.Im running the sever bp with proto ARs myself. fix the injection control and its a good game.
Casius Hakoke Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 113	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:32:00 - [18] - Quote There definitely needs to be something. I am one of those that skilled exclusively into HAV's and if I am not in my tank, I die in no time if someone even looks at me funny. So I can see the point. Unfortunately right now there is no real way to separate the vets who have specialized into exactly what they want because of months of grinding and learning from new players who are just checking out a new and free shooter. I agree completely with the OP here as there should be some kind of basic match that is setup to only except players below a certain SP level. I don't really think new players should get more SP starting out when creating there character, but an accelerated accumulation of SP for the first 2 to 3 million would not be a bad idea, maybe until they hit this point make it X2 or X3 the normal none boosted level. This is probably the best way to avoid further nerfs to everything just to help the game accommodate new players. Tutorials is a must, with some type of guided way of showing you around how to use skills and spend SP. For the EVE comparison they have this in now, when I started playing EVE years ago I learned everything from trial by fire. Which was fine for me, after I started playing again I was blown away by the simple fact that they had a tutorial. While I know next to nothing about other FPS games from what I hear it is very different from them, so a tutorial is a must as soon as possible.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 29	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:36:00 - [19] - Quote As a player w/ various alt's and over 7M SP on my main I can somewhat relate to the newbies since at the moment I'm in all militia fits with only a few core skills selected, and no weapon skills. It's tough out there, especially since almost every match I am in is stacked with players in proto gear. I'm opposed to giving more SP to new characters; I think matchmaking should be the solution to this issue. It won't help me, but I'm happily getting killed as I figure out what skills and suits to spec into. As an aside, I wonder how many vets who complain about lack of competition willingly run lower grade gear to give themselves a challenge? I would probaby take this approach if I was god's gift to the gun game of Dust.
Deadeye Dic Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:44:00 - [20] - Quote Let's lower suit basic skills to 2x and increase racial suit skill to 12x. Skilling into Suit upgrades or proto guns is pointless if you don't have a suit with enough CPU/Pg to fit the stuff too. Suits are by far the hardest to skill into and it needs to be reverse as far as basic suits are concerned. basic suits should be easy to get into, and proto guns should be twice as hard to get into.

ca ronic Moffit Bros 9	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:48:00 - [21] - Quote Noob battles. Everyone plays with the same skill levels and same equipment. Random squad formation. Even if it was just a couple battles a day or a week even.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 245	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:49:00 - [22] - Quote ca ronic wrote: Noob battles. Everyone plays with the same skill levels and same equipment. Random squad formation. Even if it was just a couple battles a day or a week even. Restricting it to certain times? Lolno.
total masshole Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:49:00 - [23] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Dropships were destroying me every time I was spotted, too. relax. these will be nerfed in good time, they have to throw the pilots a bone for a couple weeks before taking it away, again.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 33	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:50:00 - [24] - Quote Giving a bonus pool of around 4-6 million skill points to fresh players would be a good start. CCP really needs to figure out this rolling SP cap as well. Then we do need to divide instant battle into tiers: High Sec Instant Battles - std gear ONLY - Rewards ~50-80k isk per match. Low Sec Instant Battles - all gear, low isk reward - Rewards 100k-150kisk per match (slightly less than now) Faction Warfare - all gear, high isk reward,multi squad queue syncing available - Rewards 250-500k per match, 1.2x SP per match. it may take time for some of these tiers to fill out, and it may mean a lot of us vet will have to play in high sec instant battles for a couple months (as low sec battles wont have enough players) while these new players get into the game, but it'll really help the new berries get deeper into the game, and then when they have enough SP, they will wanna try their new expensive toys, so they will ease into higher paying contracts with higher skilled players and feel much more comfortable doing so. Doesn't eve have a similar system? High sec for the newbs, low sec for the slightly less noobish, and null sec for the vets. You ease yourself into each facet of the game while feeling bad ass you can eventually hold your own in the deeper scarier areas of the universe? I feel like this wouldn't be hard to implement... and its totally worth a shot.
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die 293	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:52:00 - [25] - Quote Just dont give them a cap until they reach 5mil SP.
total masshole Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.05.08 21:52:00 - [26] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Charlotte's idea is sound. I find little wrong with it. 4m skill points to new players, or a tutorial that gives skill points if you complete it. In MMORPGs there is are numorous tutorial quests that can take you from level 1 straight to level 10. You have te option to skip them, but you'd be crazy to pass on easy levelups. doesnt matter what you do, the masses would still rather kill BO2 zombies. it's like trying to talk someone who loves mcdonalds into eating at denny's
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege 10	Posted - 2013.05.08 22:02:00 - [27] - Quote A full SP/ISK Reset and Aurum refund on launch day, while drastic, would solve this problem by putting everyone back to square one, on an even playing field. Just throwing that out there...
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 245	Posted - 2013.05.08 22:04:00 - [28] - Quote Jaqen Morghalis wrote: A full SP/ISK Reset and Aurum refund on launch day, while drastic, would solve this problem by putting everyone back to square one, on an even playing field. Just throwing that out there... The newbies had the oppurtunity to join in January. And it wouldn't solve the problem, it would just delay it a bit.
Aegis Scientiafide Planetary Response Organisation 14	Posted - 2013.05.08 22:05:00 - [29] - Quote Jaqen Morghalis wrote: A full SP/ISK Reset and Aurum refund on launch day, while drastic, would solve this problem by putting everyone back to square one, on an even playing field. Just throwing that out there... Only temporarily. I say it's better to find a full-measure than a half-measure.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 418	Posted - 2013.05.08 22:16:00 - [30] - Quote I have actually found this build to be much less "hardcore" and easier to survive, not sure if that's because everybody is still getting used to things or what (I think a lot of us struggle with the aiming, I know I am). But Chromosome was pretty brutal and unforgiving, especially when going up against organized squads of A players in ambush. Now when going up against organized squads on the other team, I barely even notice. Every match has a very consistent feel to it, whereas in Chromosome matches fluctuated wildly from severely curb stomping the other team, getting curb stomped, or having a pretty even and fun match (sadly the latter was pretty rare in Chromosome).



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