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NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:43:00 - [1] - Quote Must be included, I'm sick and tired of seeing all of these basic frames for the assault guys when us logibros get nothing. We have to get medium frame to LVL 5!!! Before we can even access a standard logistics suit. Which is really making it feel like you don't even want logibros around. -We can no longer see downed team mates unless they have the sense to hit X in the overview when not over a spawn point. - When someone does hit the X button, There seems to be a lot of hassle involved with actually reviving them, as the revive indicator seems to be glitched. -We have to get our equipment to at least lvl 4 to obtain some of the specializations we had in level one of the previous build. -Also the fact that you nerfed the mass driver when it wasn't even in the patch notes. Wheres the logi love? Cause I clearly remember the slight hype to this build where everything would be easier to spec into, not a whole lot of prerequisites, and such and such. But to get a Proto Logi Suit. It takes a grand total of 4,974,720 SP Without counting Dropsuit Command. For a Prototype Basic Frame= (Assault Suit without Racial Bonus) 1,865,520 SP If I am recquired to dump and extra 3 million SP into something I should be getting something far better out of it than just my regular suit with a small racial bonus. This litteraly screws over starter Logis. I don't want anyone saying that starter Logis should just run militia, well that's too bad as the only militia Logi suit is AUR. CCP please pay attention and make it easier on logibros, I have no Idea what you guys were thinking with this build if you were trying to make it easier on everyone. But Logibros have the biggest burden to bear (SP wise), and the worst return from it (WP wise as the repair tool still has a WP cap) Either make Basic frame logi suits, or Something far more beneficial, because even though I prototyped my Gallente Logistics suit the day of uprisings release I am finding that a lot of my logi friends are having rather serious troubles making a logibro due to the insanely increased SP investment.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 220	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:46:00 - [2] - Quote No I like this that only the vets get to be medics. Too much newbie doing the logibro job the wrong way.
Thrawn01 Aldeland Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:49:00 - [3] - Quote I have played logi in every build I have been in. I like it being a specialized field that requires investment to get into. the benefits slots (esp. equip), sweet repping bonus, and pg/cpu all make it an awesome class.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 531	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:49:00 - [4] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: No I like this only the vets get to be medics. Too much newbie doing the logibro job the wrong way. You do realize SP skill and player skill are two different things right? Besides, how are new players that have the potential to be good logis ever get the chance to if they don't start early?
NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:53:00 - [5] - Quote Thrawn01 Aldeland wrote: I have played logi in every build I have been in. I like it being a specialized field that requires investment to get into. the benefits slots (esp. equip), sweet repping bonus, and pg/cpu all make it an awesome class. I know that it is an investment, however this is far too steep of an investment for new players to experience being a logibro. It means you would be forced to grind for weeks just to get to a level 1 logi suit. let alone equipments and modules.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 216	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:57:00 - [6] - Quote At least lower the skill req to lvl 3 CCP! If you want to lower the amount of protos then make lvl 5 basic suit skills a requirement for racial protos. I know you we're trying to cutdown on secondary and tertiary skills, but 2 mill SP for a Logi is just too much!
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 216	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:58:00 - [7] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: No I like this that only the vets get to be medics. Too much newbie doing the logibro job the wrong way. There's no right way, it's my suit, I'll pick you up if I want to.
copy left Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 120	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:59:00 - [8] - Quote Medium frame is a mix between the logi and assault
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:59:00 - [9] - Quote Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2768	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:14:00 - [10] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: No I like this that only the vets get to be medics. Too much newbie doing the logibro job the wrong way. ...and preventing new Logi players from getting experience in the role before hitting Proto in an irrelevant suit is helpful how?

NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 217	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:15:00 - [11] - Quote copy left wrote: Medium frame is a mix between the logi and assault ...
Zahle Undt The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 84	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:16:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P Well, they nerfed the favored weapon of many a logi-bro (the MD) and they nerfed the nanohives we used to keep our 18 round weapons full of ammo (oh not too mention you guys too). Is that not enough for you?
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:17:00 - [13] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P Well, they nerfed the favored weapon of many a logi-bro (the MD) and they nerfed the nanohives we used to keep our 18 round weapons full of ammo (oh not too mention you guys too). Is that not enough for you? No , its not
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 217	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:18:00 - [14] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P Quote: Their side arm is worth two slots, at least based on the Amarr logi, keep that in mind. Amarr logi has 6 slots, 3 equipment Gallente has 8, 4 equipment Minmatar has 8 slots, 4 equipment Caldari has 8 slots, 3 equipment All they did was trade some HP and speed for their equipment. Biggest problem here is that the assault bonus sucks, just give them the weaponry skill passive, or something. Also, we kind of need that HP to survive long enough to heal others anyway, especially now that finding people is such a pain in the ass.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 55	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:28:00 - [15] - Quote NewOldMan wrote: -Also the fact that you nerfed the mass driver when it wasn't even in the patch notes. Most hilarious Ninja-Nerf ever. My alt didn't even bother training up for them again. Aside a number of us had long held that Logistics wasn't a serious role when people could copy them with well rounded assault squads. Although I don't think anyone was expecting it to be this hardcore. Rather happy that the needles finally have a rational price range. I too am bothered some by the hellish climb to get into a logistic suit. Heck if you go for the more combat logibro people kill equipment options too. The bleed-out/medic system is definitely wonky. In short logis are definitely a highly specialized role that are for organized squad play than the solo-medic-hero.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 55	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:36:00 - [16] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. 90 percent, please hook me up with your intelligence network, CCP would probably like this valuable data too. I actually ran into a buffered logi today. It was ugly. My sentinel suite with nearly perfect hp buff skills, a complex plate, and complex armor rep barely survived with 31 armor points as that maniac took mag after mag of Toxin fire. If he had better AR skills it would have been my corpse on the ground.
NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2013.05.08 10:59:00 - [17] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: At least lower the skill req to lvl 3 CCP! If you want to lower the amount of protos then make lvl 5 basic suit skills a requirement for racial protos. I know you we're trying to cutdown on secondary and tertiary skills, but 2 mill SP for a Logi is just too much! Exactly, when I heard about there being the basic frame skill, I thought that you would just need to bump that up if you wanted to use a higher tier suit. For example, You could get Minmitar Logistics LVL 5, but you only had Minmitar Medium Frame LVL 3, well you would be stuck using the Advanced Suit. Until you got the Medium Frame skill up to 5. KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P Then Only Logibros can have equipment slots. You want equipment? Then find a logibro. =)
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 147	Posted - 2013.05.08 11:07:00 - [18] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P proto assaults/medium frame have more pg & cpu than proto logis.
J Falcs Bojo's School of the Trades 29	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:18:00 - [19] - Quote They could make the Medium Frame ADV suit a 2 equipment suit. It would then be a logi-in-training suit. This gives the player a chance to see what logi is about and decide which route to take once they reach level 5 medium (or not at all and spec into a different suit size).
NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 18	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:22:00 - [20] - Quote J Falcs wrote: They could make the Medium Frame ADV suit a 2 equipment suit. It would then be a logi-in-training suit. This gives the player a chance to see what logi is about and decide which route to take once they reach level 5 medium (or not at all and spec into a different suit size). That in all honesty is probably better than making a logi mid frame suit. Just so they don't clutter the market place. But make all the suits like this. 2 high slots, 2 low slots, 2 equipment, 1 Light Weapon, 1 Sidearm, then just increase the PG and CPU as the suit advances, that way it makes the basic frame suits, more.... you know, basic.

Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 149	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:28:00 - [21] - Quote I think the problem here is more that the Assault suit doesn't differ enough from the basic, not that the logistics doesn't have a basic. KING CHECKMATE wrote: Maybe if Logibro Armors weren't So overpowered... The problem is, 90% of your ''LOGIBROS'' use the High CPU/PG and slot advantage only to create monster tanks with insane amounts of shielding and armor,damage mods and almost any weapon they choose...Like with the Caldari Logi that you guys have now. You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P It doesn't help that the Caldari Logistics bonus is more shield extenders. I'm with you, people use logis for more CPU/PG and ignore most the equipment. Honestly I've always been a believer that CCP is giving the logistics class too many mod slots. They don't need all those mod slots, just a fair amount and a lot of equipment slots. I also wouldn't be opposed to switching their one light weapon to one sidearm weapon.
Er'ith Minour SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:48:00 - [22] - Quote I've been a LogiBro a long while now. Things I am not liking: All but impossible to pick up a downed team mate is first. I cant DO MY JOB AS A LOGI! And then, as OP stated, the HUGE SP needed to even be a logi. I spent 8mil sp on the 6th and do NOT have my Caldari Logi Proto, I do NOT have any weapons past Advanced. And the Advanced Caldari suit is almost a joke. It has LESS slots than my TYPE A from the last build!!! Really? After spending ALL that SP?! 'Oh look I have 400 Sheilds!' FLUX 'Oh look, I'm DEAD!' And you guy talking about the MD nurf, HAVE YOU TRIED SHOOTING AN ELM!!! THE WHOLE FREAKIN SCREEN TURNS WHITE! You can't even SEE the enemy!!! And why do the ASSAULT suits have more PG/CPU that the LOGI!!! Ok, I'm done...
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 226	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:21:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: You want Medium Logis Frame? I want logis to have a restriction on weapons they can use. ;) :P GTFO; this is sandbox. CCP gave us the tools we used them to break the game in 15 seconds. They need to do a better job of giving us a better rock, paper, scissors system When you have this many basic frames, modules etc of course ppl were going to do that. Get rid of the basic frames since they are superflous, lower the cost of the specialty frames. Add more variants of the specialty frames, kind of like what they do with the collector suits (quafe, state protectorate, black eagle scout(i think mine is missing) etc) But make them better so they feel like real specialty suits The caldari logi is in fact the perfect base of what a specialty suit looks like. Assault suits need to be at least .6-1.2 m/s base movement faster with even greater sprint speed with a change in health(a larger base health with current lower amounts of modules works so ppl dont feel the need to go all tank or all gank) A lower base health would necessitate more modules and cpu/pg so ppl can add a little tank as they will anyway and some other stuff Point is you will never get the real variety you want in this game until certain aspects are balanced. People will always choose health, health regen and/or dmg before eveything else in a Shooter. Because as long as you can kill faster and/or survive longer than your opponent in a firefight you will win. It took CCP how many months to make this build and i know in NF it took us 15 SECONDS to break it. Had we(the community) had access to the full item sheet and/or test servers or had CCP consulted players on this stuff we could have told them this. As it is we are stuck with this build and the only changes we can meaningfully make are in cpu/pg and health; module counts are out the window. If CCP wants to make their game viable Respec the SP tree and Refund the SP tree with the changes you will have to make. If you cant lower the x's of skills or SP costs server side; then remove the cap(yes it has to happen; you only have 1500 online on a wednesday reset; with your peak to date 4,662 on the day of patch. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust Since modules and stuff are locked in. You need to increase base health of the assault suits and the movement speed at the minimum, CPU/PG bump may not be necessitated because of the core skills that will augment them in time and the additional pg and cpu lowering skills that can be specced to reduce fitting cost of weapons and module() Heavies need a slight bump in movement and once fully filled out in core can tout a base EHP of 1000+(they need role bonuses for WP however ASAP); they need a base increase in HMG dmg or range not both. Scouts: Reserving opinion; though buffs to others will necessitate buffs to them. Weapons: Base increase in range to all weapons except TAR TAR is the mid-long range archetype; other ARs should move closer to it but not be exactly on it.(60-65ish at least) The SMG should move to current STD AR range or about 10m less(30M; with 40ish for Assault variants) and then the other weapons need to fill those gaps above and below those two archetype ranges. I make room with higher healths as base that these ranges can be increased or dmg increased so players arent forced to get in closer to finish the kill since ppl will just go out in the open and have enough time to move over large patchs of ground and make it to cover without death.Oh and i realize with my suggestions that DMG mods and glass cannons will become the norm(fact is everyone goes for gank or tank in FPS; Because killing>everything. So balancing it may mean really raising the costs of DMG mods making them tougher to fit and trully make a sacrifice. This is my opinion on Uprising to date, this is not a complete list of balancing needed, its just the area of the game i know. I have no opinion on vehicles and AV. Overall assessment. Game needs to have an simpler yet not EZ or completely stripped down skill tree. Weapons need more umph Suits need more health and movement SP needs to be uncapped and new players need to start with higher SP(PVE arenas are not the solution in a FPS, you game is dead if you listen to anyone who tells you this is the way to go; restricting gear isnt sandbox.) I say all these thing because here are the facts you cant balance this game with matchmaking algorithms because you dont have enough player population to segregate at this point. Wtih <5K and this is all in pubs (once FW and PC goes live players are effed in terms of matchmaking because all the player pools will be diluded(looks at Assassin Creed whenever it drops new DLC by way of Maps; kills mathcmaking because of player segregation) This mean adding variant and other game modes will never work because you will further segregate your player population. In a fixed number lobby shooter you need numbers to be able to segregate; if you want numbers you need new players to stick to this game like glue. You have the building blocks to make a great game but you need to stop developing this game like a hardcore MMO and more like a hardcore FPS(high health, ranges; movement; strafe shooter with tactics and classes) The MMO comes from market, loot, economy, and skill based weaponry(balanced of course). Sandbox is awesome and im trying desperately to make it work but players are clever and will use modules, weapons etc to overcome any deficiencies of the suits. Fight the instinct to nerf logis because of power creep; they are your archetype; balance around them not other way around.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 251	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:54:00 - [24] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Fight the instinct to nerf logis because of power creep; they are your archetype; balance around them not other way around. "power creep"? No. This was a power massive leap. You have the most equipment slots, the second highest tanks, and can perform the assault's job better than the assault. Your specialization is being the best at everything... that seems kind of OP. I'm playing a scout. the only thing that I do better than a logi is using the active scanner, and that's because I have no profile for it to amplify. And die horribly if anyone even looks at me funny.
xxMemphis KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 9	Posted - 2013.05.08 14:03:00 - [25] - Quote This game is quickly becoming a nade spam scout vs assault game played inside a room. You cannot shoot past 50m with any gun but a sniper it seems, Logis have a huge SP sink just to be average build logi (not a modded out assault guy)...Heavies well....just read any of the 500 posts in the last 2 days. I have liked this game and defended this game but it is getting tough to always say it's a beta it will be fixed....loosing faith fast now. I agree with others have dropsuit command to unlock types of suits (light, medium, heavy) then racial basics (caldari, minmatar, amarr, etc...) then have racial specialized but change it to Dropsuit command lvl 3 opens all suits, racial basic lvl 3 allows you lvl 3 racial specialized suits...so you can have a Minmatar logi advanced suit with Dropsuit command lvl 1, racial basic minmatar lvl 3 and minmatar logi lvl 3....hell to cut down on proto builds (which this game is now full of proto assault guys) make it where you need lvl 5 in all 3 skills to have a proto logi/assault. You want to sink that many SP go for it you deserve it. The equipment I will agree has become worse for a logi but not unbearable with the isk prices dropping using a lvl 3 nanohive as a base (militia) set up is not terrible....but yet another SP sink for logi. Long story short it is really short sided for my Sever BPO (type-1) suit to cost more than a proto assault suit just so I can have a +1 armor rep HP/S and +5% hacking speed bonus and 3 equipment slots. Your killing Logis and Heavies CCP I hope your in a room scrambling to fix this issue....
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 226	Posted - 2013.05.08 14:11:00 - [26] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Fight the instinct to nerf logis because of power creep; they are your archetype; balance around them not other way around. "power creep"? No. This was a power massive leap. You have the most equipment slots, the second highest tanks, and can perform the assault's job better than the assault. Your specialization is being the best at everything... that seems kind of OP. I'm playing a scout. the only thing that I do better than a logi is using the active scanner, and that's because I have no profile for it to amplify. And die horribly if anyone even looks at me funny. Thats because the other suits arent viable against it. The instinct would be to nerf it since its the one that sticks out like a sore thumb. Problem is that all the other stuff really is too weak(especially when you compare to their basic frame counterparts). Thats why its blobfest514. Improvements are needed on all the other suits and the logi is the archetype of a specialty suit. Its powerful yet versatile depending on how you build it. The differences for the other suits should be in health, movement, dmg(maybe), stealth/melee, and better role bonuses
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 174	Posted - 2013.05.09 00:39:00 - [27] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint, That was a well written post. clapping thought out and well presented. And I agree with all of your points. +23 for you sir.


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