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Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
271
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Posted - 2013.05.08 01:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
So with Uprising, all suits now have the same scan radius: 10m. In the last build, it was 15m for everyone else and 25m for the Scout suits.
I get it: this was nerfed so there'd be a reason to use the Active Scanner. But this was one of the few areas where Scouts had an undisputed advantage. It also made the scanning skills & modules worth more for Scouts, since all of the modifiers were (and are) percentage-based. A 25% improvement to 25m was a lot better than a 25% improvement to 15m.
Now, I know somebody is going to point out that the racial Gallente Scout skill is an improvement to scan radius. This is true, but it is also percentage-based and working off the same crappy base radius as any other suit. It is also a 3.5 mil SP investment to max scan radius via the Gallente Scout racial skill, which seems somewhat out-of-whack with what the skill is.
I would like to suggest un-nerfing the radius, for Light/Scout suits only, to either 15m or 20m. This is still less than it was before, still low enough that people might find the Active Scanner useful, but a higher enough base value to give Scouts back one of the few things they were good at.
As a parting note, consider this: when was the last time you saw a thread seriously arguing that Scouts were OP? Let there be some reason for people to spec into Light/Scout suits. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2761
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 01:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
According to what I've seen, Scouts have 5m Scan Radius and other suits have 2m.
I still think they should increase the Light Frame Scan Radius to 5m and the Scout to 7 or maybe even 10. |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
271
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Posted - 2013.05.08 01:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
In-game market stats say 10m for all suits, just double-checked with several different types. Where are you getting the 2m / 5m info from? |
Gersh Raven beta
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
133
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree that the Scout needs more to make it unique, otherwise it could become a weaker assault suit with less slots. |
Ric Barlom
On The Brink
CRONOS.
75
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Posted - 2013.05.09 01:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, Spacetits, as you know I think the whole scanning thing doesn't work properly at the moment so it's very hard for me to comment if the scan radius needs a buff or not as I haven't been able to test the current scan radius in action yet. But let me tell you this much, 20+ plus with the skills and a module sounds pretty good to me at least on paper, I'd just like to see it work properly. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2832
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 05:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:In-game market stats say 10m for all suits, just double-checked with several different types. Where are you getting the 2m / 5m info from?
Pre-release info. Haven't actually looked in the market to verify.
There SHOULD be a difference between normal suits and Scouts. Preferably a difference between Small Frames and other suits, with Scouts getting a further buff, and Gallente Scouts getting even more thanks to the racial bonus. |
Appia Vibbia
Opus Arcana
Orion Empire
21
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Current Skill bonus, with current module bonus, with the old 25m for scout gets you a range of 95m, current maximum is 38m with 4 complex range amplifiers.
There is 1 active scanner with a range less than 95, at 65m the Creodron Proximity Active Scanner. All the others have 100, 150 or 200m range.
So as long as the range on the Gallente Scout suit is below 23 it can never reach the distance of the shortest-ranged scanner.
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Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
280
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Well, Spacetits, as you know I think the whole scanning thing doesn't work properly at the moment so it's very hard for me to comment if the scan radius needs a buff or not as I haven't been able to test the current scan radius in action yet. But let me tell you this much, 20+ plus with the skills and a module sounds pretty good to me at least on paper, I'd just like to see it work properly.
Yeah, this would be easier to test or advocate for or against if we had things working properly ATM. I was reserving SP at first because these skills didn't even sound great on paper, but now I'm pretty sure you're right and the passive scanning mechanic is just busted.
I still maintain that light suits/scouts should have a unique range advantage (as they did in Chromosome, when the passive scanning mechanic actually worked) to help distinguish them from just being more fragile assault suits. |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
280
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:There SHOULD be a difference between normal suits and Scouts. Preferably a difference between Small Frames and other suits, with Scouts getting a further buff, and Gallente Scouts getting even more thanks to the racial bonus.
Would agree with the idea of ex. most suits 10m base, Light suits 15m base, racial Scouts 20m base, as it would provide a further reason to spec racial Scout. |
Driftward
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
75
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Posted - 2013.05.14 18:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
bump +1 |
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Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
70
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yes please. +1
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Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
11
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Posted - 2013.05.14 23:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
For the love of raptor jesus YES +1 |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3029
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 07:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:There SHOULD be a difference between normal suits and Scouts. Preferably a difference between Small Frames and other suits, with Scouts getting a further buff, and Gallente Scouts getting even more thanks to the racial bonus. Would agree with the idea of ex. most suits 10m base, Light suits 15m base, racial Scouts 20m base, as it would provide a further reason to spec racial Scout.
I'd prefer to see less of a buff than this, and more of a nerf to the other suits to make them look less like a Scout alternative.
Non-Light: 5m
Basic Light: 10m
Scout: 15m
This way, you're not pushing too close to Active Scanner range, but still giving an advantage to Scouts over other suits. You also have to consider that passive scanning is omnidirectional, Active Scanners are limited to a narrow scanning arc. |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
298
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Posted - 2013.05.16 13:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Spacetits CDXX wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:There SHOULD be a difference between normal suits and Scouts. Preferably a difference between Small Frames and other suits, with Scouts getting a further buff, and Gallente Scouts getting even more thanks to the racial bonus. Would agree with the idea of ex. most suits 10m base, Light suits 15m base, racial Scouts 20m base, as it would provide a further reason to spec racial Scout. I'd prefer to see less of a buff than this, and more of a nerf to the other suits to make them look less like a Scout alternative. Non-Light: 5m Basic Light: 10m Scout: 15m This way, you're not pushing too close to Active Scanner range, but still giving an advantage to Scouts over other suits. You also have to consider that passive scanning is omnidirectional, Active Scanners are limited to a narrow scanning arc.
5m is even more crippled than most suits already are, though. Right now, it feels like most people aren't even bothering with the minimap because the range is so close, so there isn't even much of a point to profile dampening currently, except hiding from active scanners. EWAR has to get a general buff in order for passive scanning to be useful again, because part of EWAR is letting players rely too much on the minimap so that you can fool them, |
Driftward
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
87
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Posted - 2013.05.16 18:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spacetits CDXX wrote:
5m is even more crippled than most suits already are, though. Right now, it feels like most people aren't even bothering with the minimap because the range is so close, so there isn't even much of a point to profile dampening currently, except hiding from active scanners. EWAR has to get a general buff in order for passive scanning to be useful again, because part of EWAR is letting players rely too much on the minimap so that you can fool them,
Absolutely this^. Without a reason for people to be using their minimap more, there's no reason for other people to spend points into Spoofing the minimap. EWAR is broken/useless without this (with the slight exception of current state of active scanners). |
Asmadai
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
86
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Posted - 2013.05.16 18:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Agreed. |
Sparhawk TheRubyKnigt
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
10
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Posted - 2013.05.18 02:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1
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Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
53
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Posted - 2013.05.18 02:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
+1
Totally agree that scouts need this given back to them. Buff it to 20 meters as this sounds like a fair deal to the scouts and then i guess we can only hope that the scanning system actually works.
On another point i also think scouts should be given back their second equipment slot as they never stepped on any kid of logistical role and even with 2 equipment slots the can only do as much logistical work as a standard amarr logi can do. What i really think these slots where used for was running around placing uplinks (which can now be spotted by a space in god damm orbit !!) to try and initiate flaking moves and in the other slot a nanohive to because no logibro could follow them in this dangerous path so they had to carry their own ammo. |
Artemis Kaiba
Prima Gallicus
3
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Posted - 2013.05.18 04:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1 for radius un-nerf. A scout with no ability to scout is not a scout anymore. But again, with a non-functioning scanning system, the scout is dead now. Except maybe as a light assault.
No need for 2nd equipment though (according to me). |
From Costa Rica
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
CRONOS.
86
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Posted - 2013.05.18 06:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Agreed! Approved! Executed ! |
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Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
496
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Posted - 2013.05.18 07:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have a similary thread going, but it all depends on how percentages are added and whether or not there is a stacking penalty to range amplifiers.
There's two ways I see it.
50% from scout suit
50% from range amplifiers level 5
45% from complex range amplifier x4
That is a total of 280% increase, which with a base value of 10m makes your max scanning range 38m. This is quite pathetic for a maxed out range scanner scout.
Or
50% from scout suit
50% increase to new value from range amplifier level 5
45% increase to new value from complex range amplifier x4
So thats 10 x 1.5 x 1.5 x (1.45)^4 = 99.5 meters. This is pretty darn useful.
You factor out that 1.5 from the scout and your range is now only 66.3 meters. Not nearly the same effect.
If it's the first one then it definitely needs a major buff to at least 25 meters. If it is the second one it still needs a buff to at least 15 meters. No reason the scout - especially the Gallente scout - should have the same base range. And if you move it to 15 and it follows the second case then you got 149 meter range which is according to the follow graphic your entire radar
http://s23.postimg.org/vzroe12fv/minimap_ranges.jpg
Honestly that's where it makes sense for it to be, considering you are going in the suit designed for long range scanning, you are maxing everything out and putting all your slots as complex range amplifiers, and sacrificing decent weaponry and protection to do so. Furthermore, keep in mind the scouts precision is still 45dB. It is not hard to get below this with any class, and the Active Scanner has a much higher precision. So even with this maximum potential passive scanning there would still be an important role for active scanners for Gallente scouts and especially all other suit types like logistics and whatnot. |
Protected Void
One-Armed Bandits
Unclaimed.
31
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Have we had any kind of feedback from CCP on passive scanners post-Uprising? Honestly, sometimes I get the impression that there is no lead game designer on their team, no-one with a comprehensive vision of how the different parts of the game fit together. Even with passive scanning working as it should - which it currently doesn't seem to do - putting the light frames and scout suits on exactly the same scanning range as all other suits just makes no sense at all.
There's only one advantage to being a scout at the moment, and that's speed. Sadly, the logi suits can fit enough kinetic catalyzers to stay very competitive here *and* get solid amounts of shield and armor at the same time. So, scouts are basically a dead class until this is fixed. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3223
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 12:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
I've just been considering this more lately, while also alternating pretty often between solo and squad-play.
...and I think I need an amendment to my previous statements.
7-10-15m radius AND Passive Scanners reveal targets to the whole team (like they did pre-Chromosome)...
OR the suggested 10-15-20m radius if Passives remain limited to squad only/shared with other non-squadded players when you're not in a squad.
I'd prefer the former option, let our TACNET data be shared with the whole team. There's no logical reason why it would be limited to just your squad. All that encourages is splitting up and spreading out instead of staying together and working as a squad. |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 18:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
7-10-15m radius AND Passive Scanners reveal targets to the whole team (like they did pre-Chromosome)...
OR the suggested 10-15-20m radius if Passives remain limited to squad only/shared with other non-squadded players when you're not in a squad.
This is an interesting and probably correct distinction, obviously whether the info again becomes shared with everyone does effect how much of an impact scanning range has.
Would prefer the former option as it makes more sense, still think a base of at least 10m for all suits is necessary to make any non-Scouts ever care about EWAR. As I noted above, if nobody who's not a scout ever uses those modules or looks at the radar (this is pretty much the case currently), it really diminishes the value of trying to trick the radar and makes that aspect of the game much less rich. |
Ferren Devarri
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 03:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hanging up my Light suit for now.
As a fresh starter, there's really no point. I've lost count the number of times I've been killed -point blank- while hacking terminals. Most deaths frequently happen at a more moderate engagement range of 15-20m, so it's not like I'd know they were there.
I'm talking the guy is giving me a complimentary reach-around and offering me tea before repainting the console with my brain matter, all the while, the silly scanner never bothers to actually register that there's someone there...
Light suits, across the board, without a distinct speed and information advantage aren't scouts, recon, or hack-ninjas. They're easy free OHKO kills. I'm done feeding the kill counts while trying to pretend the light suit path accomplishes anything worth caring about. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 05:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Den-tredje Baron wrote:+1
Totally agree that scouts need this given back to them. Buff it to 20 meters as this sounds like a fair deal to the scouts and then i guess we can only hope that the scanning system actually works.
On another point i also think scouts should be given back their second equipment slot as they never stepped on any kid of logistical role and even with 2 equipment slots the can only do as much logistical work as a standard amarr logi can do. What i really think these slots where used for was running around placing uplinks (which can now be spotted by a space in god damm orbit !!) to try and initiate flaking moves and in the other slot a nanohive to because no logibro could follow them in this dangerous path so they had to carry their own ammo.
On the money!
Uplinks should be seen on the minimap not from outer space. We travel a dangerous path indeed. |
Ferren Devarri
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Niuvo wrote:
On the money!
Uplinks should be seen on the minimap not from outer space. We travel a dangerous path indeed.
With all due respect, HELL NO. it's a pain in the injector-site trying to mop up the pub-stomping Corp teams that carpet the ground with uplinks then mass-suicide into heavy/logi. That's just knowing where they are, assuming they aren't on a different level.
I should get points for mopping up the damn things. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
862
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Let's hope for soon. |
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