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Rickard Nervall
Royal Marine Commandos
0
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm very new at DUST, I've played other shooters like BF3 and such quite a bit and DUST makes me feel like i'm playing BF2142 all over again (Which is awesome!)
My question is about how to deal with tanks as an infantry, I've read about swarm launchers and the Heavy Forge Gun.
So far i've tried using the swarm launchers against some of the tanks out there. I've yet to be able to kill an HAV despite hitting him over 6 times, LAV's are much easier, 1 or 2 shots usually works.
Are forge guns much more effective? Is the difference between milita weapons and basic or even prototype make THAT much of a difference? With low SP, what would be a good place to start to make a secondary training to be effective in anti-armor, would it be better to train for HAV myself and use that instead as a counter?
I've seen players do like 30-40 kills without dying in these tanks, so I'm wondering if it's because the people in my game aren't fielding AT enough or if the tank pilot simply had a very high cost HAV that is much better.
I'm confused a bit as being a Battefield veteran you always had a nice infantry counter to tanks unless the enemy had people actively repair it. |
M3DIC 2U
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
58
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Posted - 2013.05.07 20:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
skilling up swarms and forge makes a big difference. Also, using a flux grenade to first drop the shields, then hitting with a swarm is much more effective. Last, taking down a HAV is a squad effort now, not an individual. One man cannot take down an armor unit anymore, it takes more coordination such as one to drop shields then second and third to pop armor.
some of the new weapons coming may help in taking down different things as well. |
Rickard Nervall
Royal Marine Commandos
0
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Posted - 2013.05.07 20:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
M3DIC 2U wrote:skilling up swarms and forge makes a big difference. Also, using a flux grenade to first drop the shields, then hitting with a swarm is much more effective. Last, taking down a HAV is a squad effort now, not an individual. One man cannot take down an armor unit anymore, it takes more coordination such as one to drop shields then second and third to pop armor.
some of the new weapons coming may help in taking down different things as well.
Thanks for the tips, I should definitely call up some of my buddies and try anti-armor combos. I think I'll start trying to level up swarm launchers and stick to medium suits, and try using those flux grenades. |
Xender17
Oblivion S.G.X
53
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Posted - 2013.05.07 21:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
M3DIC 2U wrote:skilling up swarms and forge makes a big difference. Also, using a flux grenade to first drop the shields, then hitting with a swarm is much more effective. Last, taking down a HAV is a squad effort now, not an individual. One man cannot take down an armor unit anymore, it takes more coordination such as one to drop shields then second and third to pop armor.
some of the new weapons coming may help in taking down different things as well.
How it should be... |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
55
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Posted - 2013.05.07 23:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:M3DIC 2U wrote:skilling up swarms and forge makes a big difference. Also, using a flux grenade to first drop the shields, then hitting with a swarm is much more effective. Last, taking down a HAV is a squad effort now, not an individual. One man cannot take down an armor unit anymore, it takes more coordination such as one to drop shields then second and third to pop armor.
some of the new weapons coming may help in taking down different things as well. How it should be...
So it takes one person to drive a tank and 3-4 people to take it down? Well then being in a tank effectively pulls members of the opposing team off of the front lines in order to deal with the tank. This leads to an imbalance of people fighting on foot, favoring the team with the tank. In most FPS games, it is possible for one person to take out a tank, but it's difficult. If Dust had some sort of equivalent to C4 that could be placed on enemy tanks, that would be a great way to balance things. Without that, it appears as though tanks present a net positive game for the team that employs them. |
Tyrn'gog
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
40
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Posted - 2013.05.08 01:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Matakage wrote:Xender17 wrote:M3DIC 2U wrote:skilling up swarms and forge makes a big difference. Also, using a flux grenade to first drop the shields, then hitting with a swarm is much more effective. Last, taking down a HAV is a squad effort now, not an individual. One man cannot take down an armor unit anymore, it takes more coordination such as one to drop shields then second and third to pop armor.
some of the new weapons coming may help in taking down different things as well. How it should be... So it takes one person to drive a tank and 3-4 people to take it down? Well then being in a tank effectively pulls members of the opposing team off of the front lines in order to deal with the tank. This leads to an imbalance of people fighting on foot, favoring the team with the tank. In most FPS games, it is possible for one person to take out a tank, but it's difficult. If Dust had some sort of equivalent to C4 that could be placed on enemy tanks, that would be a great way to balance things. Without that, it appears as though tanks present a net positive game for the team that employs them.
Except that there's usually at least 2 people in a tank - sometimes 3 or more. Infantry also has access to AV grenades, remote explosives, prox mines. A good Dropship captain can keep above them and snipe them that way... Turrets can also be very useful.
Not the least of which is (at least in Chromosome build) tanks were VERY expensive, so pressing the attack on them tended to get them to retreat in a hurry to repair. |
Idye Lotz
The Cloned Soldier Coalition
27
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Posted - 2013.05.08 02:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tyrn'gog wrote: Dropship captain can keep above them and snipe them that way... Turrets can also be very useful.
Not the least of which is (at least in Chromosome build) tanks were VERY expensive, so pressing the attack on them tended to get them to retreat in a hurry to repair.
I'm not sure, but they still cost enough. |
Rickard Nervall
Royal Marine Commandos
0
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Posted - 2013.05.08 05:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've started using tanks myself and started losing them fast... Let's just say my wallet didn't agree with me using em all the time.
It's probably because I'm still new at it, but if a fully decked out tank is expensive, the incentive to take it down should be great as the quicker you kill it, the less likely he'll spawn another one in the same battle.
The only big issue is that most pub games have people that don't even have Anti-armor trained at all, so no one uses it, everyone has anti-infantry grenades anyways so that tank driver will end up pub-stomping 30 kills to no deaths, so if I am the only bloody person trying to take him out and fail and no one helps, then is the problem game balance? Or just that most players in pubs don't take initiative to take a tank out.
Sure there are many ways to do it, but almost every single one relies on people without any direct communication teaming up, while the driver only has to summon his HAV and people flock to populate the 2 other seats without any prior preparation or arrangement. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
343
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
just a note, skills supporting tanks are broken, we are going to get stronger once they are fixed but most who do tanks are ineffective on the ground so if somehow someone is AV skilled and takes the tank down then that guy loses a lot of ISK and is rendered weak till they call in another tank if they chose or just slightly help the ground game. till more people spec into AV tanks will be problems as MLT gear does little to fully decked out and highly skilled HAVs. |
Umbat Boki
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
157
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
You can use Flux and AV grenades, swarm launcher and forge gun. MD does some damage to armor as well.
Anyway the more ISK you spend the more advantage on battlefield you should get. Therefore if you spend 2+mil on a tank, you definitely should have significant advantage fighting 10k dropsuit.
Just to sum up, equip Flux or AV grenades. Most tanks are shield tanked, hence hitting it with Flux grenade make it fleeing from battlefield and easy target for swarms. Most dropsuits are also shield tanked, hence using Flux grenades on infantry is also more efficient than explosive grenades. AV grenades is a bit easier to use on vehicles, because it has vehicle tracking functionality.
Using proxy mines a bit harder, but a lot funnier. Especially when you see LAV driving on a full speed and then starting to fly the same direction burning in flame. |
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Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
49
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
ladwar wrote:till more people spec into AV tanks will be problems as MLT gear does little to fully decked out and highly skilled HAVs.
This is really the heart of the issue right now. It was the same pattern I saw during the move to TQ. At first tanks were dominating the battlefield as people did not skill into AV or had it readily available. The tanks themselves were not changed by much but they magically started getting taken down with ease and this mostly had to do with the playerbase readjusting and acquiring the gear needed to taken down tanks fast. I still believe that at the higher levels of equipment that the balance is skewed a little too far in favour of AV, but at lower levels of equipment the opposite is true.
I would not expect to see big sweeping changes in any gear stats or big nerfs of buffs regarding tanks vs AV for atleast a while. CCP would rather see how it pans out when players do have access to the higher tiers of equipment as a lot of people sunk their SP into the new dropsuits and soon to be weapons. It will take a bit of time before we see dedicated AV guys back out on the field.
That said right now, most of the tanks I see are just terribly fit. Blaster Gunloggis with 3-4k shielding and seemingly little resistance buffs. This probably goes back to people sinking SP into dropsuits and not leaving a lot of room for tanks.
I'd give it some time before we really see what's going on. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
343
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tac Com wrote:That said right now, most of the tanks I see are just terribly fit. Blaster Gunloggis with 3-4k shielding and seemingly little resistance buffs. This probably goes back to people sinking SP into dropsuits and not leaving a lot of room for tanks.
this is actually the skills that support tanks are broken not the lack of sp used. |
Remm Duchax
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
8
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hi there!
As a lover of the Forge Gun in my Heavy suit I can say I can solo tanks with it. (Our description says we can stand toe-to-toe with a tank!  Not that we can take many hits from a tank, though) Anyway the Forge Gun excels in most parts if you ask me. One shot that delivers the damage, faster projectiles, usable as anti-infantry weapon. Only downside is that we need to aim correctly and can't do a shot behind cover.
Must say the Swarm Launcher does the trick also and works ten times better against pesky armor tanks.
Oh, and don't whine about the better Forge Gun please. It costs a lot more SP to be good with! |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
348
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Remm Duchax wrote:Hi there! As a lover of the Forge Gun in my Heavy suit I can say I can solo tanks with it. (Our description says we can stand toe-to-toe with a tank! Not that we can take many hits from a tank, though) Anyway the Forge Gun excels in most parts if you ask me. One shot that delivers the damage, faster projectiles, usable as anti-infantry weapon. Only downside is that we need to aim correctly and can't do a shot behind cover. Must say the Swarm Launcher does the trick also and works ten times better against pesky armor tanks. Oh, and don't whine about the better Forge Gun please. It costs a lot more SP to be good with!
well im happy to see one AV guy made it to uprising, it really is under valued by most but not underpower in the least. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
107
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
to be honest your average trooper only needs to worry about having AV/flux granade fits available, yull find that eve if you cant kill a tank with them you can definatly scare a tank away and give your team some room to breath.
as an average trooper you can also spec into the swarm launcher and the new plasma cannon to give your team a little extra OOMPH in taking out tanks but if theres a few of you who have AV granades ready when the tank rolls in you shouldnt have any problem taking it out.
they are weaker than the used to be and anti vehicle weapons/granades are strong against them and you really shouldnt expect to solo a tank, they are meant to be a force multiplyer.
this came is about co-operation and squad play, once you use those things then you will find that everything thats red in front of you melts pretty easily. It only takes you and a single friend playing and chatting together to notcie that two people working together can easily beat 5 that arnt. |
Musta Tornius
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
323
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Posted - 2013.05.08 11:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Also if you are serious about AV then complex damage mods (light for swarms, heavy for forges) are a must. At 10% bonus a module they make a huge difference how hard your weapon hits vehicles. |
Tankin Tarkus
Quafe Runners
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 01:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
it definately does not take a squad effort to bust a tank i drive a madruger tank with around 4700 armor and even with 26% damage resistance it only takes 3 hacked exo-0 av grenades to take my tank from full hp to 0 and what do u know thats exactly how much a single player can carry without nanohives
personally i think its rather unbalanced that a grenade that costs like 2k isk can destroy a tank that costs just under 1.4m that easily |
Average Joe81
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.05.09 03:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Spamming AV nades is the only sure fire way to kill a tank before he can do anything to stop you(which in my opinion is a bad thing though) |
pegasis prime
The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries
DARKSTAR ARMY
161
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
I used to run proto heavy and std tanks last build but this time iv went all out tank. There is a rwcurring pattern that at the start of a build most folks speck into anti infantry giving the illusion that tanks are invincible sadly were not as I so far have met a few of my ex chubby bretheren with the good ol proto breech wow it still packs a punch. As time goes on and more folks speck into av you will see another battlefield power shift ftom tank domminance to av domminance forcing us back into red line sniping . Just my 0.02 isk |
CharCharOdell
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2013.05.13 04:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
AV is mad OP right now and tanks are really UP. If you're not killing tanks by now, you're missing something very, very obvious. |
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Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
267
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Get Proto AV nades and you can solo a tank, this comes from a tanker |
Herper Derp
DUST University
Ivy League
75
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
http://tinypic.com/r/35lgo77/5 |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
DARKSTAR ARMY
79
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Posted - 2013.05.13 18:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
1, Equip Hacked AV Nades
2. Close your eyes and throw some nades
3. Tanks are magically destroyed |
Taurion Bruni
Nightingale Logistics Pty Ltd
9
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
tanks work well to destroy tanks |
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