DUST Search - Rant of a Dissapointed Heavy

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

1. HMG I already have on my red list of something to verify and research, just right now game is still downloading but from the looks of it based on scenario based feedback the gun has really fallen out of favor or need in an environment containing every other weapon just about.

Right now there are couple solutions on the table that are being looked into and maybe considered. A number tweak is most preferable over adding in a new skill at the moment. Maybe tweaking the function of holding down the trigger or something there are quite a few paths to go down on fixing this. Just remember CCP makes the final decision to fix this or not or how they fix it.

2. As for speed I haven't had a chance on this build yet to see how it all works out, it was really odd in fanfest but nearly unnoticeable had if it been changed at all. I am going to have a hard time scrubbing up chomosome stats but if you can find a place where I can get the old movement speed stats I'll be happy to use it in my research. Overall we're moving amazing fast for most people but the map size is massive in comparison to shooters like halo or call of duty so it feels that not a whole lot of ground is covered.

As for fix a generic buff will be required as you suggested possibly balanced out properly.

3. I will ask nicely not to bring lore or IRL into the argument, as I can nearly counter with just as much lore or IRL. With that Lore/IRL removed it does seem possible based on some complaints that the AR managed to get over-nerfed vs every other weapon's who's range was also reduced. This will take hands on experience to actually see if the AR still fits in the entire puzzle of things. Overall in my experience at the fanfest, the AR was freakishly brutal against everything netting me 17-0 in one match of the tournament. Which begs myself the question WTF happened.

Additionally the other thing is also get the AR renamed as its not a real AR in the its use, this would break some player perceptions over it. Overall as usual there are plenty of ways to skin the cat if it needs to be fixed.

I thank you for your feedback, it has been most helpful, and I'll add the speed issue to the list of things to explore.

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Volgair The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 276	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:18:00 - [1] - Quote Ok, I said I would wait for the sixth to complain. The time of my silence has come and gone, You fed your heavy players CCP You fed us good. Who said payment for power was bad? What happened to high risk high reward? Way to make your game more bland, and relegate heavies to slow light weapon users (is and always has been a daft idea EHP < Mobility) or Forge Gun snipers... The HMG was only slightly better then the AR last build, you had to work that weapon much more intelligibly ny way of planned positioning to compensate for your lack of mobility and slower recharge. Now universally the smart choice is the Medium Drop Suit. Which brings up a question, where the hell do you get your test data? Corp matches where HMG Heavies were already a walking punchline. Or these half assed pub games where scrubs throw their militia gear on your weapon like it was their roll in life to fuel your WP total. Let us look these Drops suits objectively, by assigning a weighted scale. Where high is weighted at 3, med at 2, low at 1, and none at 0. ------------Mobility- Fire Power- Tank - Native Recharge- Utility- Objective push- Objective Defense Scout------Med-------Mid---------Low------------High----------Med---------Low-----------------Low------------= 12 Logi--------Med--------Mid---------Med-----------Med-----------High---------Low----------------Med-------------= 14 Assault---Med--------Mid---------Med-----------Med-----------Med----------High----------------Med------------= 15 Heavy-----Low---------Mid---------High----------Low-----------None--------Med-----------------Med------------= 11 Now heavy specific issues aside CCP, I believe you are going the opposite way then myself and peers would view as optimal. You know what creates balance? Unique attributes leading to unique rolls with specific counters with vulnerabilities that can be compensated by team support. The Heavy should be a behemoth of the battle field and the last thing you want to go toe to toe with, at an extreme Isk cost. The Scout should be a nigh invisible streak from objective to objective both in terms of sprint speed and signature radius. The Assault should be the jack of all trades, not the do EVERY thing all the time, better then every thing else-suit that it is now... With this build between the aforementioned HMG nerf and the loss of the Heavy's utility, scouts being laterally nerfed once again. (Also literally in terms if the sprint speed reduction for a 5% increase from skill across the board to all drop suits) HAV's still being made of wet news paper, DUST just came another step closer to COD and has negativity effected my opinion of CCP to make a UNIQUE, thought provoking and dynamic FPS game play. That said, CCP please stop attempting to appease the standard FPS crowd. They wont be with you in 2 years much less your projected 10. That mentality is making your game less appealing to the people expecting something better then whats already available on the FPS market by dumbing every thing down and normalizing all the gear to a grey-paste of nothing-matters. This was done for what im am assuming must be simply for accessibility reasons or a sense of simplified balance, by way of mitiaged choice. I see that as Insulting, Especially to those that would other wise stick with you for said decade. I have been playing this game for a year now and the possibility of tomorrow is what has kept me coming back. Then this build happened and for some reason now it seems like a quick cash out, not a long term game. Please prove me wrong. TL;DR? This build has turned to ash in my mouth, the Heavy is useless as every thing other then a Forge Sniper. Every one should just play assault, anything else is just a distraction. This game is far less dynamic then it should be due to CCP attempting to make every one (by which i mean the Twitch/lobby crowd) happy, resulting in a mediocre grey paste that is sadly easy to learn and master...
bacon blaster VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 17	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:20:00 - [2] - Quote + 1, my brother
Kiro Justice The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 51	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:45:00 - [3] - Quote Vol. I'm quoting and robbing this. Everyone needs to see this.
Hammer McMannis Kat 5 Kaos 0	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:52:00 - [4] - Quote Preach on.. my heavy brother! +1
Sev Alcatraz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 265	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:56:00 - [5] - Quote Back in E3 dust had depth and was truly unique you had to think about what you did before you did it, it took strategy to win...now its like COD your in a pit and the guy with the most fire power wins, CCP you listened to the wrong people involving feed back . You should have kept the closed beta forums and open beta forums separate, my self and many others know what needs nerfs and what needs buffs, but our words are drowned out by the crys of "nerf (insert item here) here because my AR cant kill it" threads.. We know where this is going to end up if you carry down this road, AR 514 might as well cut the **** and make is med suits and ARs and remove all vehicles while your at it... GET YOUR S#-íT TOGETHER CCP!
Dante Dragonsguard The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 23	Posted - 2013.05.06 22:59:00 - [6] - Quote So true. Hmg Heavies are dead in the water. AR's still do optimal damage and Heavies can no longer fight back at there best. Im starting to regret putting my faith and all my sp in the HMG because honestly at proficiency 5 and one basic heavy damage modifier it feels like i just grabbed a leaf blower stuffed a whole bunch of gravel in it and used that instead of a weapon thats made to chew through dropsuits. We used to surprise other dropsuits with better range because of sharpshooter but now that that's gone everyone knows our range and all they have to do is stay there and blast away. People said that Heavies are getting an ehp buff. and that makes what 1k hp without armor plates? My old A series Heavy suit hit 950 hp without plates. 50 more hp is not a buff. Then what they take our damage again. our range and then our high slots so we can't even compensate for the loss with an adequate amount of damage mods for it. Id rather have my damage back instead of the 50 hp if you ask me CCP. On a side note though. You Heavy guys out there that have the sentinel AK0 try it with one damage mod and 4 armor repairs. you may not have plates to give you more hp but those armor repairs will surprise you. together they make you rep armor almost as fast as your shields.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens Orion Empire 435	Posted - 2013.05.06 23:01:00 - [7] - Quote Preach it reverend! I'm sick of the prevalence of middle of the road non specialization being the go to answer for everything. Heavies used to be FUN, and VIABLE. Now its just damn pitiful.
Muramasa Armads Defensores Doctrina 8	Posted - 2013.05.06 23:16:00 - [8] - Quote I agree completely with everything you said. Where are those idiots that said the Heavy was actually getting a buff? Marston VC that ignorant fool comes to mind. My squad earlier couldn't stop laughing when we saw Heavies and it was pathetic to see the current state of Heavy class. A heavy with a shot gun would have better luck killing people than a Heavy with a HMG because they both mostly have the same range. I am saddened to see the fall of my favorite weapon in this game, but we aren't the only class that got nerfed because it looks like the scout is a casualty as well.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 229	Posted - 2013.05.06 23:24:00 - [9] - Quote fkin +1 dude. Bravo. They really went too far this time.
Volgair The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 283	Posted - 2013.05.06 23:28:00 - [10] - Quote Muramasa Armads wrote: I agree completely with everything you said. Where are those idiots that said the Heavy was actually getting a buff? Marston VC that ignorant fool comes to mind. My squad earlier couldn't stop laughing when we saw Heavies and it was pathetic to see the current state of Heavy class. A heavy with a shot gun would have better luck killing people than a Heavy with a HMG because they both mostly have the same range. I am saddened to see the fall of my favorite weapon in this game, but we aren't the only class that got nerfed because it looks like the scout is a casualty as well. The scout is most certainly another class in a sad state. However they have been so since September when they Nerfed the suit speed and the effect percentage of Kinetic Catalizers. That is why i stated in the main post that every thing other then the medium Frame is a distraction. If they were cut from the game right this minute it would change nothing for PC, and Very litte from pubs. Which equal parts sad an idiotic.

Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 7	Posted - 2013.05.07 00:13:00 - [11] - Quote Posted link to a CPM i hope he listens and at least tries to help our cause. CCP really needs to take another long hard look at the heavy or I fear they will lose some player base.
Volgair The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 283	Posted - 2013.05.07 00:18:00 - [12] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Posted link to a CPM i hope he listens and at least tries to help our cause. CCP really needs to take another long hard look at the heavy or I fear they will lose some player base. I appreciate that and reciprocate those fears, but it has less to do with the Heavy being broken and more about failing to incentive any thing other then "Guy with Gun" using a medium frame, equipment stagnation by way of lack of logical choice, does not a good meta-game make.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 8	Posted - 2013.05.07 00:22:00 - [13] - Quote Volgair wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Posted link to a CPM i hope he listens and at least tries to help our cause. CCP really needs to take another long hard look at the heavy or I fear they will lose some player base. I appreciate that and reciprocate those fears, but it has less to do with the Heavy being broken and more about failing to incentive any thing other then "Guy with Gun" using a medium frame, equipment stagnation by way of lack of logical choice, does not a good meta-game make. Could not agree more.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 8	Posted - 2013.05.07 00:33:00 - [14] - Quote Constructive criticism ONLY. Don't even sound like you are giong to sound like you want to cry! it is the ONLY way to fix the heavy: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73235&find=unread not saying anyone here is crying because the HMG is a legitimate complaint however it is expressed and I think CCP knows it!
Orion Vahid Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.07 01:29:00 - [15] - Quote They better fix this ****. Now.
Aegis Scientiafide Planetary Response Organisation 14	Posted - 2013.05.07 02:19:00 - [16] - Quote I agree with your assessment regarding how the game should be developed. The reason I wanted to play dust is precisely because I thought it was going to be different. I'm already tired of COD and Battlefield, if I wanted to play those games I would do so (not saying the new build is currently a copy of these games, just agreeing trying to copy them would be a mistake). I also agree the Heavy looks terrible too. I actually agree with CCP in regards to the isk balancing issue though. Players shouldn't be able to buy a clone advantage with isk. If they were to follow this path, the only strategies that would matter in PC would be those that ultimately save clones regardless of the ISK price (making the isk price meaningless).
Volgair The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 284	Posted - 2013.05.07 02:23:00 - [17] - Quote Orion Vahid wrote: They better fix this ****. Now. It's not as simple as just "fix it," solutions need to be proposed, weighed and compared. However I wont disagree that changes should be a little faster then they have been in the past.
Hecarim Van Hohen The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 25	Posted - 2013.05.07 11:35:00 - [18] - Quote Why has this been buried here? This is something we all need to discuss more in-depth as this thread raises a vast amount of valid points for just that, discussion. Also this lacks the usual teary eyed rant symptoms.
PAs Capone The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.05.07 11:40:00 - [19] - Quote I really dont understand why they saw need for such a drastic change. I think a lot of of concerns could be answered by CCP explaining their methodology for the changes. The game looks great, the gameplay feels wonky, but I need more time in the game. I have faith that we may still see some improvement, but thats coming from a guy who has only been here since the very end of closed beta, many of the veterans know better than to hope. But the quote i'll cling to is this quote from Iron Wolf from Kiro Justice's thread on the need for address on the changes: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1. HMG I already have on my red list of something to verify and research, just right now game is still downloading but from the looks of it based on scenario based feedback the gun has really fallen out of favor or need in an environment containing every other weapon just about. Right now there are couple solutions on the table that are being looked into and maybe considered. A number tweak is most preferable over adding in a new skill at the moment. Maybe tweaking the function of holding down the trigger or something there are quite a few paths to go down on fixing this. Just remember CCP makes the final decision to fix this or not or how they fix it. 2. As for speed I haven't had a chance on this build yet to see how it all works out, it was really odd in fanfest but nearly unnoticeable had if it been changed at all. I am going to have a hard time scrubbing up chomosome stats but if you can find a place where I can get the old movement speed stats I'll be happy to use it in my research. Overall we're moving amazing fast for most people but the map size is massive in comparison to shooters like halo or call of duty so it feels that not a whole lot of ground is covered. As for fix a generic buff will be required as you suggested possibly balanced out properly. 3. I will ask nicely not to bring lore or IRL into the argument, as I can nearly counter with just as much lore or IRL. With that Lore/IRL removed it does seem possible based on some complaints that the AR managed to get over-nerfed vs every other weapon's who's range was also reduced. This will take hands on experience to actually see if the AR still fits in the entire puzzle of things. Overall in my experience at the fanfest, the AR was freakishly brutal against everything netting me 17-0 in one match of the tournament. Which begs myself the question WTF happened. Additionally the other thing is also get the AR renamed as its not a real AR in the its use, this would break some player perceptions over it. Overall as usual there are plenty of ways to skin the cat if it needs to be fixed. I thank you for your feedback, it has been most helpful, and I'll add the speed issue to the list of things to explore.
Still blazn Planetary Response Organisation 1	Posted - 2013.05.07 11:50:00 - [20] - Quote can you just put it back the way it was before you lost you damn minds? thanks

POCKPICKETER L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 6	Posted - 2013.05.07 12:08:00 - [21] - Quote +1 You couldn't have said it any better, you take away sharpshooter which is fine, because you did it straight across the board, but then you take another 10% damage and range from the HMG. It's completely WORTHLESS in terms of it's Weapons. If anything that has improved would be the HP, I think it has been effectively adjusted, but why only adjust one part of a suit, when you didn't even release the 3 racial variants of that suit. I manage to get about 25 kill assists every game because I do some damage, but not enough to get the kill from my heavy, I'm going to have to be using a proto HMG with the proficiency up just to make up for the damage that I have lost, in regards to the range it's completely worthless now. FIX THE HEAVY!!!
flesth Red Star. EoN. 13	Posted - 2013.05.07 13:48:00 - [22] - Quote HMG is a joke FACT i guess i waste SP on HMG skills , fixed it or refund sp I am not playing heavy til it fixed FACT peace heavy brothers
Azraya Veldman The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3	Posted - 2013.05.07 14:10:00 - [23] - Quote As an AR user. In last patch I hated my life every time I ran into a heavy behind a corner. When fighting mid field at some range both of us could die but I had an advantage if I only could keep my bullets on target. Long range models of HMG were king of broken but still not that bad. This was understandable and I new it's how this weapon should be used. If you don't own peoples asses at short to closer mid range after Uprising you have +1 from me. Looking how AR range works now you probably are almost melee ...
Smoky The Bear Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel 26	Posted - 2013.05.07 19:22:00 - [24] - Quote I love my heavies.. didnt forget bout ya..
bcs1a ROYAL SQUAD Shadow of the Apocalypse 17	Posted - 2013.05.07 20:06:00 - [25] - Quote Aside from the fact that the OP repeatedly used the word "then" in places where they should have used the word "than"... I completely agree with this... +1 I am a long time EvE player and ONLY came too play Dust because it was a part of EvE... I never played console games before except for a few bouts with mario.... I don't want to quit playing Dust because I have made some great friends here, but, I will quit playing if all I am to be is cannon fodder and can't enjoy the game... The same way I would quit EvE if the circumstances were the same. o/ Bill PS. I have 7 EvE accounts and would let them all expire if needed.


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