DUST Search - Scout Suits more CPU starved in Uprising??

Chilled Pill wrote:

The Robot Devil wrote:

What do you want a scout to do? They are scouts and they should fill that role. Espionage, intelligence, sabotage and stealthy behind enemy lines stuff. Putting a proto AR in your suit should eat most of your resources, it's like putting medium weapons on a frigate, yeah it might work but what was sacrificed? If the answer is little to nothing then the suit is broken.

I love how this guy is EVE this EVE that like your paradigms apply. Dust is a different animal. I think you might have been podded once too many.

Ooh espionage, intelligence, sabotage, stealth, speed. Tell me more of these things that are exclusive to scout suits. They aren't. The only thing a Scout ever really has that is a Scout's exclusively is the smaller hit boxes that's it, if that's even still the case in Uprising (also the laggy frames resulting in wacky hit detection helps with that, but supposedly that's fixed now too.) Everything else can be copied (and even surpassed) by both Assaults and Logis.

Have you seen the Minmatar Assault suit? See how potentially it can be better at SMGs than the Scout who will look to it as an AR alternative because of the less CPU requirement? Guess what, it can fit a Kin Cat, and Dampener too on it's two lows. So there it's already equalled a Scout's Speed and Stealth. Oh but look you can probably fit in a Proto Weapon sacrifice some Shields and still get a higher total EHP than the Scout but pack a much stronger punch. To top it off, an Active Scanner on the equipment slot. Wait there's more, what's it's passive Assault Class bonus? 25% better shield regen! Perfect!

YEY! Step aside Scouts, I got this.

Explain to me again what the Scout's role is as you most obviously know more than I do. You do run the scout suit right?

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VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 23	Posted - 2013.05.06 05:33:00 - [31] - Quote Suddenly I don't want to play Scout anymore...
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 185	Posted - 2013.05.06 05:42:00 - [32] - Quote Frigates are not destroyers and destroyers are not cruisers, just like scouts are not assaults and assaults are not heavies. If a merc can fit the same gear on a scout suit as an assault suit minus one small thing then there is a big problem. Scouts are like frigates; fast, quick, stealthy by nature and low damage by nature. If you want the biggest gun an assault merc runs then you should have to give something up.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 57	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:04:00 - [33] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Frigates are not destroyers and destroyers are not cruisers, just like scouts are not assaults and assaults are not heavies. If a merc can fit the same gear on a scout suit as an assault suit minus one small thing then there is a big problem. Scouts are like frigates; fast, quick, stealthy by nature and low damage by nature. If you want the biggest gun an assault merc runs then you should have to give something up. Ya, thanks, I completely missed that my 300hp B-Series Scout was not identical to 600hp+ B-Series Assault, thanks for clearing this out for me, guy. The problem now will be that we will be even more paper, we will be blind, but most of all our main enemy & predator -- assault -- remains the beasts of the battlefield. Looks like our only new bonus is that we're able to use handicapped stalls in the war barge. Because we took the nerf bat to the knee. Unfortunately will have to fight fatties for it. :X
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 185	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:16:00 - [34] - Quote What do you want a scout to do? They are scouts and they should fill that role. Espionage, intelligence, sabotage and stealthy behind enemy lines stuff. Putting a proto AR in your suit should eat most of your resources, it's like putting medium weapons on a frigate, yeah it might work but what was sacrificed? If the answer is little to nothing then the suit is broken.
fred orpaul The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 255	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:17:00 - [35] - Quote frankly any skilling into any thing other then assault/AR this build or next was/is a complete waste, the only reason people skill into anything else is for the love of the role or curiosity. Granted stupid players feed heavies a lot of easy kills, and in the low end heavies are strongish hence why they are important in pub matches, and with them logis, but in any high end matches heavies are a waste and so are logis, and heavies are going to be even weaker next build. one thing that woulda been cool for scouts this build is the potential to put on some kincats with out sacrificing every thing else, but with the reduced slot lay out scouts will stay broken as **** from beginning to end game, as they pretty much were this build, I mean a VK1 or hell even a B series could do every thing better.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 47	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:40:00 - [36] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: What do you want a scout to do? They are scouts and they should fill that role. Espionage, intelligence, sabotage and stealthy behind enemy lines stuff. Putting a proto AR in your suit should eat most of your resources, it's like putting medium weapons on a frigate, yeah it might work but what was sacrificed? If the answer is little to nothing then the suit is broken. I love how this guy is EVE this EVE that like your paradigms apply. Dust is a different animal. I think you might have been podded once too many. Ooh espionage, intelligence, sabotage, stealth, speed. Tell me more of these things that are exclusive to scout suits. They aren't. The only thing a Scout ever really has that is a Scout's exclusively is the smaller hit boxes that's it, if that's even still the case in Uprising (also the laggy frames resulting in wacky hit detection helps with that, but supposedly that's fixed now too.) Everything else can be copied (and even surpassed) by both Assaults and Logis. Have you seen the Minmatar Assault suit? See how potentially it can be better at SMGs than the Scout who will look to it as an AR alternative because of the less CPU requirement? Guess what, it can fit a Kin Cat, and Dampener too on it's two lows. So there it's already equalled a Scout's Speed and Stealth. Oh but look you can probably fit in a Proto Weapon sacrifice some Shields and still get a higher total EHP than the Scout but pack a much stronger punch. To top it off, an Active Scanner on the equipment slot. Wait there's more, what's it's passive Assault Class bonus? 25% better shield regen! Perfect! YEY! Step aside Scouts, I got this. Explain to me again what the Scout's role is as you most obviously know more than I do. You do run the scout suit right?
fred orpaul The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 255	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:43:00 - [37] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Frigates are not destroyers and destroyers are not cruisers, just like scouts are not assaults and assaults are not heavies. If a merc can fit the same gear on a scout suit as an assault suit minus one small thing then there is a big problem. Scouts are like frigates; fast, quick, stealthy by nature and low damage by nature. If you want the biggest gun an assault merc runs then you should have to give something up. yea frigs also have almost twice as much speed as a cruiser, scouts?? less then a quarter more. Also light/side weapons cannot really be compared to med/small turrets. but okay lets say you hit the nail on the head, and we will assume that std and adv mods and weapons are the equivelent of smalls in EVE, what makes up for that lack of dps and tank in eve is a hit box that is half the size a 40% speed increase and all sorts of e-warfare. I can live with the hit box of a scout as is, but by your standards its too big, speed is a serious issue wheres my 40% hell I'd settle for 25% increase over assaults, and where the ** is my e-war, sure active scanners will help but with out a tackle and scanner jamming, and tracking disruption(god thats a cool thought. I can hear the cries of OP already.) with out all of this the scout suit you describe is useless. Oh and what about locking time the lack of that should make our hit box even smaller. Now I would settle for how scouts were last build, with the HP of this build, but please keep using incomplete logic to try and explain away why every ***** suit that is not assault keeps getting broken while assaults sit on the top of the god damn world.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 47	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:49:00 - [38] - Quote I think I just talked myself into speccing into the Minmatar Assault....faaaaaack.
fred orpaul The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 255	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:50:00 - [39] - Quote Chilled Pill wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: What do you want a scout to do? They are scouts and they should fill that role. Espionage, intelligence, sabotage and stealthy behind enemy lines stuff. Putting a proto AR in your suit should eat most of your resources, it's like putting medium weapons on a frigate, yeah it might work but what was sacrificed? If the answer is little to nothing then the suit is broken. I love how this guy is EVE this EVE that like your paradigms apply. Dust is a different animal. I think you might have been podded once too many. Ooh espionage, intelligence, sabotage, stealth, speed. Tell me more of these things that are exclusive to scout suits. They aren't. The only thing a Scout ever really has that is a Scout's exclusively is the smaller hit boxes that's it, if that's even still the case in Uprising (also the laggy frames resulting in wacky hit detection helps with that, but supposedly that's fixed now too.) Everything else can be copied (and even surpassed) by both Assaults and Logis. Have you seen the Minmatar Assault suit? See how potentially it can be better at SMGs than the Scout who will look to it as an AR alternative because of the less CPU requirement? Guess what, it can fit a Kin Cat, and Dampener too on it's two lows. So there it's already equalled a Scout's Speed and Stealth. Oh but look you can probably fit in a Proto Weapon sacrifice some Shields and still get a higher total EHP than the Scout but pack a much stronger punch. To top it off, an Active Scanner on the equipment slot. Wait there's more, what's it's passive Assault Class bonus? 25% better shield regen! Perfect! YEY! Step aside Scouts, I got this. Explain to me again what the Scout's role is as you most obviously know more than I do. You do run the scout suit right? +1 tho this really isn't that different a beast from eve as I stated below, its just this guy is either, an ******* using faulty logic to make sure no suit can rival his favorite in any situation, or a idiot who rivals Karl Pilkington in ability to apply logic.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 185	Posted - 2013.05.06 06:53:00 - [40] - Quote You are correct this is a different animal. Scouts do the things I listed better than other suits, almost all suits can fill any role but some are better at than some others. I don't run scout suits often but I do see where they belong and they are not front line suits that are made for assault. They are for scouting and cqc or any other job where a merc needs to be fast and hard to catch. Hence the all of the signature and speed stats. Again, I will ask, what do you want them to do? Seems like just another COD guy wanting everything to be equal across the board and be able to do anything in game without drawbacks. I reference EvE because it is the name of the game.

Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 49	Posted - 2013.05.06 07:25:00 - [41] - Quote Did I ask to be equal to Assaults? Did you even read? My point isn't to turn Scouts into Assaults, but to make Scouts VIABLE heck even USEABLE for a role they were 'supposedly' designed to play. Look at the suit most snipers gravitate to -- the Logi, was it designed to be a better sniper than the Scout? Was it given the LVL 1 Sniper Rifle Operation as a default skill? Are you going to argue: 'Well Logi's role is to be a great sniper suit.' By your 'role' argument, a drawback should be a Logi should suck at killing things. Because well, it was designed as support -- revive, repair, resupply. Did your eyes just glaze over my Minmatar Assault example? Seriously. I'm done with you. God that's why I rarely post on here. I can throw a rock in here with my eyes closed and hit 3 idiots. Let's talk possible solutions: Let's reclaim what the Scout was built for. Speed: 1. Lower movement and sprint speeds on Assaults or Logis. Like, I dunno, the fastest Assault (minmatar) sprint at 6.9m/s, or their none of their base sprint should not reach the 7.0m/s mark 2. OR Speed up the Scouts. With the Minmatar getting 8.0m/s flat and the others 7.8m/s Scan Precision/Profile Dampening/Scan Radius 1. Give scouts suits a bigger %gain for leveling up these skills (I dunno how you're going implement that) Precision and Dampening: 2% -> 5% per level Radius: 5% -> 10% per level. Damage: 1. Ability to go into a weapon's Proficiency w/o getting LVL5 Operation. Before you burn me at the stake listen: Why would I spend the SP to unlock Proto level weapon I will probably never be able to fit without sacrificing too much hp/speed/etc just so I can get my 'Exile' (for example) to hit a bit harder? Just some thoughts. Fire away. I'll be over here.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 185	Posted - 2013.05.06 07:42:00 - [42] - Quote Your solutions should be where the scout is headed. I am talking about CPU/PG, light suits have fewer slots and resources to work with as they should because they are a light frames built to do the fixes you listed. If we begin to raise the CPU/PG it throws the slot layout and theme of the suit out of whack with the other suits. My only point is that the scout suit should be tight on resources and slot layout.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 49	Posted - 2013.05.06 07:53:00 - [43] - Quote I'll try to get back to this thread when I'm able to see Uprising for myself. Right now, everything is just too up-in-the-air.
Appia Vibbia Opus Arcana Orion Empire 12	Posted - 2013.05.06 16:15:00 - [44] - Quote As a die-hard Gallente scout fangirl, I'll tell you this: being a Gallente scout eff'ing sucks. As an EVE pilot, my Gallente is there to scout out the systems. Scanners out the wazoo, top tier cloak, and microwarpdrive and afterburner. It is great for going in, gathering intel on a system, and heading back or giving the all-clear. The problem here is that it is completely specialized to 0.0 space or below. you get 1 chance to bomb someone, then get the heck out of dodge. . . Because they replaced the Cruise Missile Launchers into actual bombs, a skill I didn't need anymore and couldn't use because I was a Gallente Pilot and you can't fit those onto any ships. I used to go solo-hunting with those CMs in Concord Space. That is like equipping a shotgun and core locus grenade, buzzing around picking people up on my 40m scan range, sac'ing any shield so I can see the broken sig-radius from dropsuit lvl 5's -25% and anyone who spec'd into profile dampening, with 2 kincats and a range amplifier. I get 1 chance to hit a squad with those grenades and maybe a shot off of the shotgun. That is in an upper tier match. This is actually godly on line-harvest ambush as the last time I played this it too 3 heavies focusing on me to take me out, but it was a pub with the only recognizable corps on the other team way on the other side of the map. Or, I can replace the range amplifier with a hacking module and the precision enhancers with shields as I run around a map looking for the unprotected null-canon. The beauty of it all though is that even though I'd like to, none of those are complex mods, because there isn't enough CPU and PG to use. I also love my Gallente scout to use those beautiful railguns. I used to be able to fit out a Tristan to snipe from Cruiser range and Cruisers I could get my Hybrid Turrets to shoot much further than my max scan range. Then I stopped playing for a bit, came back for rigging (whichever build that was). I skill into drones (finally) and set up a Myrmidon gunship... only my drones have a range of 80km and my Med turrets have a range of eff'ing 35Km now. Not to mention the damage was significantly reduced... to which CCP constantly said they would rebalance Hybrid Turrets, and they did, only every single build they get worse and worse. Little Appia here came into the world as a Jin-Mei Saan Go, much like her capsuleer older brother and sister. As an Arbiter she was handed a MLT Sniper Rifle and took to it like a fish to water. . . So I take my SP and invest it into SR Operations, find out that the Charged Sniper Rifle is ridiculous and should not be a tier-II SR, then realized that tier 3 SRs have a 93 CPU requirement... So I skill into a Type-II scout suit, find out that without a sidearm I get toasted after 5 kills when people with ARs come to hunt me down. I skill up into the A-Series. I've got the three scanning skills up to at least lvl3 with dampening at lvl5, I do not yet know the joys of kincats and realize that I cannot fit 3 low slots, 2 high slots, a grenade, and a nanohive in my A-series if everything is ADV gear. So I dump all my SP into light weapon upgrades w/ proficiency and reduce the SR CPU cost to 56. I upgrade Scanning Upgrade to 5 for a -25% on those modules, Sidearm weapon upgrades with proficiency to 3, Nanocircuitry to 5 for a 25% reduction on the Gauged, Circuitry at 5, The PG one at 5, the shield one at 5 Annnnd still can't do it. ok, so I'm in a vK.0 now. I still can't fill up all the slots with Proto/Complex mods. Some need to be ADV or left out. Or I could have saved 4 Million SP and used an Assault suit and had the modules and stats I wanted. . . Or used a Logi suit, get some proximity explosives so people can't sneak up on me, negating the need for a sidearm, and have enough EHP to take 1 charged sniper round and live. Oh! And I can do that in a Type-I and bring a nanohive and drop-uplink with me! -_- The Robot Devil. You are a tool, you have no understanding of how to fit a Scout suit, or the amount of CPU and PG it takes to fit those modules that are made for the Scout's roles. I can't be the best sniper, because I'm paper thin and can't increase my damage like the other suits can nor can I take another SRs body hit without it killing me in 1 shot. I have lost my recon ability by scan radius being reduced to a quarter of what it was and The Minmatar took my shotgun style from me. But I've been a Gallente scout for going on 8 years now, I expect everything I like and every play-style I use to be nerfed because it is the consistent trend for CCP to do that.


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