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Refund - What You Need To Know (or rather What You Already Agreed To...)

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Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 142	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:38:00 - [1] - Quote Whelp, time to make another refund thread. This time around though, I'll try to keep it constructive and objective as possible. Last time though I never got around to answering Maken Tosch about my last post in which he made it abundantly clear that there would be no character reset. To keep it short, yes, in my last post I was a little exasperated and frustrated. While I make the statements there that everyone should be reset, I never wanted another skill reset for my character or anyone else's, but the constant barrage of topcis being made pushed me over the edge. However, this time around I'll try to keep opinions out of my OP and simply have objective statements. Anyways! Time for those objective statements! DUST 514 EULA Under 4. "Fees may be payable in U.S. Dollars, Euros, pounds Sterling, or such other currency as stated at the time of purchase and are non-refundable unless expressly stated otherwise in the EULA." Under 5 A. "If CCP terminates the EULA pursuant to this section, you will not be entitled to receive a refund of any Fees." Under 5 B ii. "You will not be entitled to receive a refund of any Fees for a termination pursuant to this section." Under 5 C i. "Upon termination of the EULA, CCP will close your Account and discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account; you will not be entitled to receive a refund of any Fees in the event of such termination." Under 5 C ii. "You will not be entitled to receive a refund of any Fees in the event of such termination." Under 5 C iii. "You will not be entitled to receive a refund of any Fees in the event of such termination." Under 9 D. "If you fail to install the new release when required, CCP shall not be responsible in any way for your inability to access the System or play DUST 514, and you shall not be entitled to receive a refund of any prepaid Fees or any other form of compensation." Under 9 E. "If you fail to install the new release when required, CCP shall not be responsible in any way for your inability to access the System or play DUST 514, and you shall not be entitled to receive a refund of any prepaid Fees or any other form of compensation." Under 9 F. "Your license does not entitle you to a refund for periods the System may be unavailable." Now, many have mentioned going to Sony for the refund. I understand there may be a problem if you purchased Aurum and did not receive items and/or Aurum; for example, you pay for it, your card is charged, but the game items are never given to you. If that happens, contact CCP first and let them know. Usually there was a small error and will most likely give you the items. I can relate this experience as one of my corpmates (or alliance members) had this happen to them and CCP worked with them. However, if you didn't like what you got... Terms of Service and User Agreement Under 5. "SNEI has no obligation to reverse or refund unauthorized charges made using any available payment method." "Except as otherwise permitted by applicable law or as expressly provided in this Agreement, funds added to the wallet are non-refundable and non-transferable. " Under 7. "You may not cancel a pre-order at any time and refunds are not available for pre-orders, subject to applicable laws." "Features, specifications, prices, services and content are subject to change or withdrawal at any time and SNEI does not provide any refunds in the event of a price drop, a subsequent promotional offering or product removal." "Payments for access to content or services are not refundable, unless otherwise required by applicable law. " Under 16. "Upon termination of your account for any reason, you will not receive a refund for items (including subscriptions and pre-paid products or services), value accumulated on in-game items or any unused balance in your wallet except as required by law or as expressly provided in this Agreement." It may seem harsh, but I just wanted to highlight many of the people on this forum that don't read the ToS or EULA before accepting the agreement.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Vanguardians Orion Empire 33	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:44:00 - [2] - Quote I cannot believe my eyes... RESEARCH
Sylvana Nightwind Expert Intervention Caldari State 355	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:46:00 - [3] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I cannot believe my eyes... RESEARCH SCIENCE TRAINED TO 5 STRIKES AGAIN
Cyrius Li-Moody The Vanguardians Orion Empire 36	Posted - 2013.05.04 19:51:00 - [4] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I cannot believe my eyes... RESEARCH SCIENCE TRAINED TO 5 STRIKES AGAIN +5% bonus damage to raging merc packers
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 145	Posted - 2013.05.04 20:01:00 - [5] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Sylvana Nightwind wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I cannot believe my eyes... RESEARCH SCIENCE TRAINED TO 5 STRIKES AGAIN +5% bonus damage to raging merc packers Haha. Thanks guys!
steadyhand amarr The Red Apple 452	Posted - 2013.05.04 20:12:00 - [6] - Quote ^^ tbh all the fourm freakouts are just showing me who i dont have to worry about anymore :P come may the 6th i will be busy melting shields :P
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 84	Posted - 2013.05.04 20:53:00 - [7] - Quote in other words "hi, we are ccp, if we discontinue anything you paid for, in your country it means we just stole your money and theres nothing you can do about it"
SherIock Holmes Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2013.05.04 20:58:00 - [8] - Quote Void Echo wrote: in other words "hi, we are ccp, if we discontinue anything you paid for, in your country it means we just stole your money and theres nothing you can do about it" Shut up Wench.
Protoman Is God Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 131	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:00:00 - [9] - Quote Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1378	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:03:00 - [10] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. What's this, a customer not bending over? You should feel ashamed.

SherIock Holmes Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:04:00 - [11] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. You make me sick. Your as bad as these people: http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/jessica-sussan-wishart-sues-mcdonalds-franchise-over-burns-from-hot-coffee/story-fnda1bsz-1226625422842
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1379	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:09:00 - [12] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. You make me sick. Your as bad as these people: http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/jessica-sussan-wishart-sues-mcdonalds-franchise-over-burns-from-hot-coffee/story-fnda1bsz-1226625422842 Do you know the full story? McDonald's purposely increased the serving temperature of their coffee to scalding temperatures (that's 2nd degree burns in your mouth) so they would have to give less refills. Customers filed suit when someone spilled it on themselves and got said 2nd degree burns on their thighs. How does McDonalds change after losing said lawsuit? They add a warning to the lid and continue business as usual.
SherIock Holmes Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:14:00 - [13] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: SherIock Holmes wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. You make me sick. Your as bad as these people: http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/jessica-sussan-wishart-sues-mcdonalds-franchise-over-burns-from-hot-coffee/story-fnda1bsz-1226625422842 Do you know the full story? McDonald's purposely increased the serving temperature of their coffee to scalding temperatures (that's 2nd degree burns in your mouth) so they would have to give less refills. Customers filed suit when someone spilled it on themselves and got said 2nd degree burns on their thighs. How does McDonalds change after losing said lawsuit? They add a warning to the lid and continue business as usual. Suing over a small burn is ridiculous, if your not happy with that example I'll give you this: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/policewoman-sues-man-who-dialled-1794819 I passionately dislike people that try to get money out of people who owe them nothing.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1380	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:24:00 - [14] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: SherIock Holmes wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. You make me sick. Your as bad as these people: http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/jessica-sussan-wishart-sues-mcdonalds-franchise-over-burns-from-hot-coffee/story-fnda1bsz-1226625422842 Do you know the full story? McDonald's purposely increased the serving temperature of their coffee to scalding temperatures (that's 2nd degree burns in your mouth) so they would have to give less refills. Customers filed suit when someone spilled it on themselves and got said 2nd degree burns on their thighs. How does McDonalds change after losing said lawsuit? They add a warning to the lid and continue business as usual. Suing over a small burn is ridiculous, if your not happy with that example I'll give you this: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/policewoman-sues-man-who-dialled-1794819 I passionately dislike people that try to get money out of people who owe them nothing. Suing over a second degree burn that was completely unnecessary as a direct result of a calculated cost saving measure by mcdonalds is ridiculous? McDonalds purposely made it dangerously hot so people would not drink it before finishing their meal. Do you even know how bad a second degree burn is? http://0.tqn.com/d/firstaid/1/0/n/D/-/-/TimBallantine2ndBurnOilHand.jpg It's permanently scaring and the most painful classification.
Nstomper Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 282	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:27:00 - [15] - Quote Yall talkinh about mcdonalds now? .... I want a ranch blt with extra bacon
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 173	Posted - 2013.05.04 21:57:00 - [16] - Quote First of all, good post. Second: if they can't be forced to refund me, they will have to kiss my monthly subscription in EVE, which over the years has given them upwards of 300 dollars, goodbye. If there are enough ppl like me who don't like being screwed over, CCP will have to go back to fishing or whatever else they used to do in Iceland before they learned about Internet schemes. They have succeded in alienating ppl who were willing to pay them, now they will have to leave with their hard core community most of whom would rather play 40 hours a week to earn PLEX, only so that they would not have to play CCP real money. CCP I hope you are reading this, it's not too late to re-earn my trust and trust of other ppl who used to support you with their money.
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 404	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:02:00 - [17] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: First of all, good post. Second: if they can't be forced to refund me, they will have to kiss my monthly subscription in EVE, which over the years has given them upwards of 300 dollars, goodbye. If there are enough ppl like me who don't like being screwed over, CCP will have to go back to fishing or whatever else they used to do in Iceland before they learned about Internet schemes. They have succeded in alienating ppl who were willing to pay them, now they will have to leave with their hard core community most of whom would rather play 40 hours a week to earn PLEX, only so that they would not have to play CCP real money. CCP I hope you are reading this, it's not too late to re-earn my trust and trust of other ppl who used to support you with their money. So you're happy to pay a monthly subscription to play a game but when you pay for something in a free game and use said thing, you want that thing back for free to use again to get double the benefits? Yeah, that sounds like a sensible reason to throw your toys out the pram. Note - this is irrelevant of what you were promised. You used the thing you bought - end of.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 165	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:06:00 - [18] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: First of all, good post. Second: if they can't be forced to refund me, they will have to kiss my monthly subscription in EVE, which over the years has given them upwards of 300 dollars, goodbye. If there are enough ppl like me who don't like being screwed over, CCP will have to go back to fishing or whatever else they used to do in Iceland before they learned about Internet schemes. They have succeded in alienating ppl who were willing to pay them, now they will have to leave with their hard core community most of whom would rather play 40 hours a week to earn PLEX, only so that they would not have to play CCP real money. CCP I hope you are reading this, it's not too late to re-earn my trust and trust of other ppl who used to support you with their money. You can have your merc packs refunded. You have specifically been given that option.
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 1	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:07:00 - [19] - Quote I'm really confused over this whole issue. Why are people wanting a refund for the Merc Packs? I bought 2 of them and have no desire to request a refund.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1382	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:09:00 - [20] - Quote Jokes on you all. I just get a refund and will transfer to an alt. SP and AUR? Check. But just because I was prepared.

Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 404	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:09:00 - [21] - Quote Rorschach Mustang wrote: I'm really confused over this whole issue. Why are people wanting a refund for the Merc Packs? I bought 2 of them and have no desire to request a refund. They think that the terms and conditions entitle them to have the merc packs given back to them, which is true, but they want them back and to keep what they got from them in the first place, which is not covered by those T&Cs.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:10:00 - [22] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: First of all, good post. Second: if they can't be forced to refund me, they will have to kiss my monthly subscription in EVE, which over the years has given them upwards of 300 dollars, goodbye. If there are enough ppl like me who don't like being screwed over, CCP will have to go back to fishing or whatever else they used to do in Iceland before they learned about Internet schemes. They have succeded in alienating ppl who were willing to pay them, now they will have to leave with their hard core community most of whom would rather play 40 hours a week to earn PLEX, only so that they would not have to play CCP real money. CCP I hope you are reading this, it's not too late to re-earn my trust and trust of other ppl who used to support you with their money. Never forget Jita. I started playing right before this happened and got to witness this spectacle. It was amazing to learn about EVE, not only the complexities of it, but got to interact with the playerbase and hear the reactions to the announcement about allowing Aurum to be used for Tech 3 items, essentially turning EVE into a P2W game (and this is a subscription game too!). Back on topic though, if CCP doesn't handle the commercial release correctly, they may have another "Jita moment" on their hands.... Except the people posting wanting their Aurum back are losing validity in my eyes because they want items back that the used to progress their character. CCP is graciously allowing us to keep our skill points and these posters are wanting a second helping of boosters. It reminds me of customers that walk into a restaurant, order food, eat about 95% of it, call over the waiter and complain it wasn't [insert crummy excuse here] and demand either another one, or another "similar" meal. Both the restaurant and the customers around the table loathe those types of people. The situation here is no different.
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 1	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:12:00 - [23] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: I'm really confused over this whole issue. Why are people wanting a refund for the Merc Packs? I bought 2 of them and have no desire to request a refund. They think that the terms and conditions entitle them to have the merc packs given back to them, which is true, but they want them back and to keep what they got from them in the first place, which is not covered by those T&Cs. Isn't the only thing consumable in the Merc pack the Active boost and the aurum? So they want those back but to keep the SP & items they gained already? Seems really unfair to me...
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 404	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:13:00 - [24] - Quote Rorschach Mustang wrote: Django Quik wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: I'm really confused over this whole issue. Why are people wanting a refund for the Merc Packs? I bought 2 of them and have no desire to request a refund. They think that the terms and conditions entitle them to have the merc packs given back to them, which is true, but they want them back and to keep what they got from them in the first place, which is not covered by those T&Cs. Isn't the only thing consumable in the Merc pack the Active boost? So they want the boost back but to keep the SP they gained from using the boost already? Seems really unfair to me... Exactly.
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 85	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:14:00 - [25] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Void Echo wrote: in other words "hi, we are ccp, if we discontinue anything you paid for, in your country it means we just stole your money and theres nothing you can do about it" Shut up Wench. are you going to make me shut up somehow? little fanboy
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:17:00 - [26] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Jokes on you all. I just get a refund and will transfer to an alt. SP and AUR? Check. But just because I was prepared. First off, that McDonald's thing? I don't want to believe you but it sounds like something they would do. I'm going to have to look that up! But yeah, there's no joke on me. I bought 2 merc packs and a pack of Aurum and am pleasantly satisfied with where I stand. As for transfer to an alt, you mention SP and AUR. Do you mean you are going to transfer the SP (which I don't think you are or would insinuate that) or do you mean transferring the ISK and AUR? In any case, good luck waiting with that because that doesn't come until Phase 2.
Selinate deux Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 48	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:17:00 - [27] - Quote Why the hell did you people pay for a F2P game that's still in it's beta and isn't pay to win?
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 1	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:19:00 - [28] - Quote Selinate deux wrote: Why the hell did you people pay for a F2P game that's still in it's beta and isn't pay to win? Well I bought 2 merc packs when they were $10 each, so it was a real bargin to get the 30 day boost Plus $40 worth of Aurum for $20. Haven't used the boosts yet, but spent some Aurum on some blueprints. Now I wish I would have purchased more of the Merc packs so I could have stocked up on Aurum for 1/2 the price.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1382	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:24:00 - [29] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Jokes on you all. I just get a refund and will transfer to an alt. SP and AUR? Check. But just because I was prepared. First off, that McDonald's thing? I don't want to believe you but it sounds like something they would do. I'm going to have to look that up! But yeah, there's no joke on me. I bought 2 merc packs and a pack of Aurum and am pleasantly satisfied with where I stand. As for transfer to an alt, you mention SP and AUR. Do you mean you are going to transfer the SP (which I don't think you are or would insinuate that) or do you mean transferring the ISK and AUR? In any case, good luck waiting with that because that doesn't come until Phase 2. YOU are not the specific you. There was a lot of gloating from people who pushed this "solution" through primarily to spite people like me. At the end of the day, no one got even close to what they wished for, which is a damn shame.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:29:00 - [30] - Quote Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though.

Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:30:00 - [31] - Quote Void Echo wrote: are you going to make me shut up somehow? little fanboy Hmm... Void Echo wrote: in other words "hi, we are ccp, if we discontinue anything you paid for, in your country it means we just stole your money and theres nothing you can do about it" You are here. In order to be here, you have to sign into the forums. To do so, you have to have a Playstation account. When you made the account, you agreed to the Terms of Service (agreeing to the things I posted in the second part of my OP). Then when you came over here, you made a character, as we can plainly see from your avatar. Now granted you could have made it via the website from a recruit link and never touched your PS3 and I don't know if the character process here has something where you agree to DUST ToS.... Except we know that you did because you are apart of a player corporation, which is impossible to do from the website, meaning you had to log into the PS3, download DUST, and accept the ToS by pressing X, launching the game and then joining into the player corporation. CCP can't steal something that you give them of your own free will and agree to it. I wonder if you are one of those people who still have their soul owned by Gamestation...
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:34:00 - [32] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: YOU are not the specific you. There was a lot of gloating from people who pushed this "solution" through primarily to spite people like me. At the end of the day, no one got even close to what they wished for, which is a damn shame. Ah ok. You as general instead of you as specific. Carry on then.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1382	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:36:00 - [33] - Quote Rorschach Mustang wrote: Django Quik wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: I'm really confused over this whole issue. Why are people wanting a refund for the Merc Packs? I bought 2 of them and have no desire to request a refund. They think that the terms and conditions entitle them to have the merc packs given back to them, which is true, but they want them back and to keep what they got from them in the first place, which is not covered by those T&Cs. Isn't the only thing consumable in the Merc pack the Active boost and the aurum? So they want those back but to keep the SP & items they gained already? Seems really unfair to me... https://dust514.com/game/add-ons/ Those are not the only consumables, fyi, and the AUR spent on consumables that aren't boosters also fits under that label as well.
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 85	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:36:00 - [34] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Void Echo wrote: are you going to make me shut up somehow? little fanboy Hmm... Void Echo wrote: in other words "hi, we are ccp, if we discontinue anything you paid for, in your country it means we just stole your money and theres nothing you can do about it" You are here. In order to be here, you have to sign into the forums. To do so, you have to have a Playstation account. When you made the account, you agreed to the Terms of Service (agreeing to the things I posted in the second part of my OP). Then when you came over here, you made a character, as we can plainly see from your avatar. Now granted you could have made it via the website from a recruit link and never touched your PS3 and I don't know if the character process here has something where you agree to DUST ToS.... Except we know that you did because you are apart of a player corporation, which is impossible to do from the website, meaning you had to log into the PS3, download DUST, and accept the ToS by pressing X, launching the game and then joining into the player corporation. CCP can't steal something that you give them of your own free will and agree to it. I wonder if you are one of those people who still have their soul owned by Gamestation... actually, I won a bets key from pshome, and yes I used a ps3 to get here, I only recently got a pc
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:38:00 - [35] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. Implying I typed all of this.
Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:39:00 - [36] - Quote OP is wasting Internet. You don't need to battle CCP or Sony on their agreements... Let your Credit Card company do it for you in the form of a chargeback! You have no idea how much clout you have as a consumer when you make a credit card purchase, and it's all in your favour. - Besides notifying your bank you have you have to do precisely nothing. - The funds are immediately removed from CCP's account as a reversal as per various credit card rules. - It's entirely up to CCP to prove their case and by reading the original terms of the products regardless of what their legal mumbo jumbo says they would be struggling to prove your quality expectations have been met. - This costs CCP heaps more to do than you think. Depending on the case to argue one of these costs them several hundred dollars (USD) to argue and often it's in their best interests to not contest it. - The more of these CCP get the worse their relationship/internal merchant rating will be with a credit card company only making their life harder in the future. If you don't believe me go and call your bank! Stick it to the man!
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 1	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:40:00 - [37] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: Django Quik wrote: Rorschach Mustang wrote: I'm really confused over this whole issue. Why are people wanting a refund for the Merc Packs? I bought 2 of them and have no desire to request a refund. They think that the terms and conditions entitle them to have the merc packs given back to them, which is true, but they want them back and to keep what they got from them in the first place, which is not covered by those T&Cs. Isn't the only thing consumable in the Merc pack the Active boost and the aurum? So they want those back but to keep the SP & items they gained already? Seems really unfair to me... https://dust514.com/game/add-ons/ Those are not the only consumables, fyi, and the AUR spent on consumables that aren't boosters also fits under that label as well. Oh yeah... So why do people want a refund on this? I don't see why anyone should get a refund if they used the items already. It's not like CCP is wiping away everyone's SP once it goes live, right? Or are they and I just missed a huge announcement on that?
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 1	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:41:00 - [38] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: OP is wasting Internet. You don't need to battle CCP or Sony on their agreements... Let your Credit Card company do it for you in the form of a chargeback! You have no idea how much clout you have as a consumer when you make a credit card purchase, and it's all in your favour. - Besides notifying your bank you have you have to do precisely nothing. - The funds are immediately removed from CCP's account as a reversal as per various credit card rules. - It's entirely up to CCP to prove their case and by reading the original terms of the products regardless of what their legal mumbo jumbo says they would be struggling to prove your quality expectations have been met. - This costs CCP heaps more to do than you think. Depending on the case to argue one of these costs them several hundred dollars (USD) to argue and often it's in their best interests to not contest it. - The more of these CCP get the worse their relationship/internal merchant rating will be with a credit card company only making their life harder in the future. If you don't believe me go and call your bank! Stick it to the man! And then get your PSN account banned. Any company that gets issued a chargeback (Steam, Origin, etc) will usually ban an account. So yeah, have fun not being able to play any of your PSN games cause you wanted a measly $20 back!
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:42:00 - [39] - Quote Void Echo wrote: actually, I won a bets key from pshome, and yes I used a ps3 to get here, I only recently got a pc Um... re-reads Not sure how beta keys from PS Home and you getting a PC relates to the conversation about CCP "stealing" money....
Django Quik R.I.f.t Orion Empire 405	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:43:00 - [40] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: OP is wasting Internet. You don't need to battle CCP or Sony on their agreements... Let your Credit Card company do it for you in the form of a chargeback! You have no idea how much clout you have as a consumer when you make a credit card purchase, and it's all in your favour. - Besides notifying your bank you have you have to do precisely nothing. - The funds are immediately removed from CCP's account as a reversal as per various credit card rules. - It's entirely up to CCP to prove their case and by reading the original terms of the products regardless of what their legal mumbo jumbo says they would be struggling to prove your quality expectations have been met. - This costs CCP heaps more to do than you think. Depending on the case to argue one of these costs them several hundred dollars (USD) to argue and often it's in their best interests to not contest it. - The more of these CCP get the worse their relationship/internal merchant rating will be with a credit card company only making their life harder in the future. If you don't believe me go and call your bank! Stick it to the man! This tactic is entirely subject to the laws of the country and rules of the credit card company. You will also run into potential difficulties due to it being virtual goods, which have historically proven decidedly difficult issues in credit/debit refund/reversal cases. But you're welcome to try. Edit - and oh yeah, you'll never be able to pay for anything using that account on PSN again.

boba's fetta Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Gathering Of Nomadic Explorers 35	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:52:00 - [41] - Quote op use's logical argument it isnt very effective, trolls counter with stupid its not effective at all but doesnt matter because the trolls are to stupid to notice.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:55:00 - [42] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though. If you bought the merc pack, I can see some of the items being restored, such as Aurum spent on consumables used in battle, the Merc Pack items that are consumed from battle. In fact, with Uprising, they have come out with a Dev Blog listing all of the things that will persist and the things that will be refunded: Quote: What will persist? Character name, Contacts, Corporation, Stats/Leaderboards, Mail, AUR and ISK currencies, PSN items and items received from events (those not purchasable on the in-game market) ISK balance will be the ISK you currently have in your wallet + the ISK value of items cleared from your Assets (prize items that are available on the market will be removed and their ISK value reimbursed) AUR balance will be the AUR you currently have in your wallet + the AUR value of items cleared from your Assets If a user has an unfinished booster equipped at time of Uprising deployment, it will stay equipped Boosters that are still in Assets Currently trained corporation skills Corporation Wallet and Contacts In-game Mail NOTE: All items consumed before the Uprising update changes take place will STAY consumed and will not be reimbursed What will be removed or changed? And what will be reimbursed? All Skills will be cleared, users get the SP back into Available SP Consumed boosters are NOT refunded (users have already earned the SP) All Fittings (both infantry and vehicle) Some persisted vanity items may not keep their previous coloring schemes All ISK items will be cleared from Assets and their CURRENT ISK value added back to wallet All AUR items will be cleared and users reimbursed with their current AUR value (with exceptions noted previously) Some corporation skills will be renamed, your skill level in the corresponding new skill will remain the same Currently active UVTs are removed from users and their AUR value refunded Any UVTs in Assets are removed and refunded This only applies to UVT purchased post-Tranquility move (previously purchased / consumed UVTs were already reset) The issue here is that there are those that want double helpings.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 647	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:56:00 - [43] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: You don't need to battle CCP or Sony on their agreements... Let your Credit Card company do it for you in the form of a chargeback! You have no idea how much clout you have as a consumer when you make a credit card purchase, and it's all in your favour. Do that and your DUST account is immediately banned. No holy **** batman are you full ......? BTW, I'm happy they decided to use my suggested way of handeling this issue. ;)
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 152	Posted - 2013.05.04 22:59:00 - [44] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: op use's logical argument it isnt very effective, trolls counter with stupid its not effective at all but doesnt matter because the trolls are to stupid to notice. I use logical arguments in my OP? Re-reads Where? All I could tell is that OP copypastaed ToS and EULA and used Ctrl+F to find the term "refund". Where's this argument you speak of? EDIT: By the way, your shift key isn't working. Might want to have that looked at.
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 2	Posted - 2013.05.04 23:04:00 - [45] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Smooth Head wrote: You don't need to battle CCP or Sony on their agreements... Let your Credit Card company do it for you in the form of a chargeback! You have no idea how much clout you have as a consumer when you make a credit card purchase, and it's all in your favour. Do that and your DUST account is immediately banned. No holy **** batman are you full ......? BTW, I'm happy they decided to use my suggested way of handeling this issue. ;) big possibility that your entire PSN account will be banned.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2013.05.04 23:22:00 - [46] - Quote @Kaze I guess my only complaint is, I would have kept those HK shotties and fused locus for release had I known.. I guess my real complaint is everyone else's.. That CCP does a poor job of communication Sorry for all the editing, but an email or in-game note to those who bought packs would have been nice.
Victin Ashis KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 25	Posted - 2013.05.04 23:55:00 - [47] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though. No we were told they would be refunded if the characters were reset. Someone else took that to mean that regardless of whether or not the characters were reset we would get refunded the merc pack contents, which is wrong. The Merc Pack reset was and is contingent on a character reset.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 34	Posted - 2013.05.05 00:03:00 - [48] - Quote Victin Ashis wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though. No we were told they would be refunded if the characters were reset. Someone else took that to mean that regardless of whether or not the characters were reset we would get refunded the merc pack contents, which is wrong. The Merc Pack reset was and is contingent on a character reset. Excuse me? Are you saying I'm a liar? I bought one during CLOSED BETA which stated "every reset and upon RELEASE." Move along fish..
Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.05.05 00:13:00 - [49] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Victin Ashis wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though. No we were told they would be refunded if the characters were reset. Someone else took that to mean that regardless of whether or not the characters were reset we would get refunded the merc pack contents, which is wrong. The Merc Pack reset was and is contingent on a character reset. Excuse me? Are you saying I'm a liar? I bought one during CLOSED BETA which stated "every reset and upon RELEASE." Move along fish.. Well are you a person of principle or just having a sook? Contact CCP and tell them you plan to contest their actions in the form of a chargeback as I described above. Their response will be one of threat, or they will roll over. Knowing CCP they will just threaten you but you will know exactly where you stand.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 34	Posted - 2013.05.05 00:34:00 - [50] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Victin Ashis wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though. No we were told they would be refunded if the characters were reset. Someone else took that to mean that regardless of whether or not the characters were reset we would get refunded the merc pack contents, which is wrong. The Merc Pack reset was and is contingent on a character reset. Excuse me? Are you saying I'm a liar? I bought one during CLOSED BETA which stated "every reset and upon RELEASE." Move along fish.. Well are you a person of principle or just having a sook? Contact CCP and tell them you plan to contest their actions in the form of a chargeback as I described above. Their response will be one of threat, or they will roll over. Knowing CCP they will just threaten you but you will know exactly where you stand. I already know where I stand. I have a 7m sp toon with a decent amount of aurum after the reset, that I can play for FREE. CCP will never get my money again, and I am now smarter in dealing with crooked corporations..

Smooth Head Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.05.05 00:38:00 - [51] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Smooth Head wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Victin Ashis wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Not a big issue for me because I spent most of it wisely, but for many, including myself, we were told in closed beta, that merc packs would be refunded upon release. Personally, I took a few months off from the game, came back after open beta, bought some aurum stuff to "test" (it was still beta after all,) and then I happen to check the forums, oh a week or so later, to find out they are no longer refunding merc packs? Why did I have to come to the forum to find that out? And now we are given the laughable option of being stuck with whatever we did, or start all over again. Which would be fine, if EVERYONE had to start over again, not just the people who supported them first... not sure if I want to continue supporting them. Will probably continue to play their FREE game though. No we were told they would be refunded if the characters were reset. Someone else took that to mean that regardless of whether or not the characters were reset we would get refunded the merc pack contents, which is wrong. The Merc Pack reset was and is contingent on a character reset. Excuse me? Are you saying I'm a liar? I bought one during CLOSED BETA which stated "every reset and upon RELEASE." Move along fish.. Well are you a person of principle or just having a sook? Contact CCP and tell them you plan to contest their actions in the form of a chargeback as I described above. Their response will be one of threat, or they will roll over. Knowing CCP they will just threaten you but you will know exactly where you stand. I already know where I stand. I have a 7m sp toon with a decent amount of aurum after the reset, that I can play for FREE. CCP will never get my money again, and I am now smarter in dealing with crooked corporations.. Well you that. Never giver them money again and tell them you will tell everyone you meet they shouldn't either as CCP simply can't be trusted.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2677	Posted - 2013.05.05 01:38:00 - [52] - Quote Smooth Head wrote: If you don't believe me go and call your bank! ...and they'll tell you there's a maximum 2 month (depending on credit card company and bank) time limit on chargebacks. I love how you completely ignore that part. I've pointed it out before, you didn't reply, and now you're still here saying "chargeback" like it's a magical solution in spite of NO LONGER BEING AVAILABLE TO ALMOST ANYONE AFFECTED BY THIS PROBLEM. Nice that you're trying to give people more options though. Now, onto the actual topic. CCP had promoted the original Merc Pack release with very specific - and very clear - wording. Here, have the full quote: Quote: IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Now lets look at why people are still arguing about this, shall we? Quote:* IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. That says "after each character reset AND for the commercial release". Read it. And again if you're unclear. It doesn't say "after each character reset including commercial release" It doesn't say "and at commercial release if you opt in for a reset" It doesn't say "and maybe at commercial release if we feel like it" There's also the other bit that I put in bold*. "NO OTHER FORM OF REFUND IS PERMITTED." Pretty clear that CCP put that in to avoid customers trying to cheat the system and get their stuff back outside of what was promised. But guess what? IT ALSO MEANS THEY CAN'T CHANGE THE DEAL ON US. So what does this mean? Well, firstly, this is from the Merc Pack's product description on the PlayStation Store, and it's basically the same wording used on the Gamestop version. That product description forms part of the legally-binding purchase agreement that's necessary for people buying things to have any rights at all. My local laws, as well as the arguably-applicable laws in the UK, are very friendly towards the consumer being given what was agreed to. There was no stipulation by CCP that the Merc Pack credit at commercial release would come with a reset. There was a stipulation that we were ALL entitled to a full credit of our Merc Pack's contents at commercial release. There was also a very specific statement that no other options are available for a refund of those contents. For me, that's legally binding in all potentially-applicable jurisdictions. If they're going to force us to take less than they agreed to give, or have our characters reset with everyone else's, I'm sorry, but that's changing the deal, and it's not the refund that BOTH PARTIES AGREED TO AS THE ONLY PERMISSIBLE OPTION. I'd consider it to be a good-faith option if they let us take a REDUCTION in SP (based on number and type of boosters used) to get back the full Merc Pack contents. That would avoid the problems with "double-dipping" - and is (like the current option) arguably covered by the game's EULA (saying they have the right to alter things within the game for no reason except "because we can"). I think this option is better at honouring the intent in favour of what customers were led to believe we were purchasing, leaving less room to complain about being unfairly penalised for buying from CCP. It would also be fair if they said "full reset of Merc Pack gear, but you have to give up everything EXCEPT your current SP." They wipe all your gear, ISK, AUR, etc, and you get a full refund of purchased AUR, and a full credit back of your Merc Pack. Another option would be to refund everything EXCEPT Boosters. There's room to argue that the refunded SP is of "similar value" to the Booster(s) and/or AUR, particularly when you consider that they ARE refunding our SP on the 6th to be re-spent. FINAL NOTE: I have one of the Merc Packs involved in this dispute, but I've avoided using my booster post-reset (for my own reasons), and I haven't used up enough of the other consumables for this to make a huge difference to my personal situation. The only thing that might change is the state of my AUR as a result of this decision. If I get back more than I originally had, I may come out ahead anyway. If not, I'll be pushing this issue for my own benefit as well as because of the facts involved in the case. If it looks like I'm going to come out ahead, but the deal is still not the deal agreed to, I'm still going to be pointing out that the deal being offered isn't the deal that CCP agreed to with the customer.
Rorschach Mustang Opus Arcana Orion Empire 2	Posted - 2013.05.05 02:24:00 - [53] - Quote Garrett, There's no clear wording on what a "reset" is. CCP could easily claim that a reset would be removing everyone's SP and ISK to everyone is on equal ground, similar to how MMOs in beta reset everyone's character when the game goes live. In this case, it technically isn't a reset as everyone keeps their SP and ISK. It's just a respec.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 41	Posted - 2013.05.05 02:29:00 - [54] - Quote Lol - I have 8 merc packs that are involved in this dispute, I am very happy that CCP are giving us an option to waive our rights to a refund if we wish to keep our current characters/stuff/sp As an aside... Don't our characters actually belong to CCP anyway?
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 214	Posted - 2013.05.05 02:37:00 - [55] - Quote SherIock Holmes wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: Sony and gamestop are going to be refunding me so you wasted your time typing this. You make me sick. Your as bad as these people: http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/jessica-sussan-wishart-sues-mcdonalds-franchise-over-burns-from-hot-coffee/story-fnda1bsz-1226625422842 You are the idiot. Now you are basing your conclusion on person sues vendor over spilling hot coffee. Fact is 2nd degree burns that result in scarring is a temperature that is also not fit for consumption as it would have similar effects on your esophagus on the way down, however the major difference is it requires a voluntary reaction. If the lid was indeed not secure and brewed at a temperature hotter than needed especially for consumption then yes there is a basis for suit, this was the basis of the original suit filed 20 years ago in america. Yet another example of an individual who reads something, forms a visceral response and fails to ask probing questions and attempt to obtain facts and make informed conclusions. Yea i know TL;DR right sorry i dont do 140 characters
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 41	Posted - 2013.05.05 02:40:00 - [56] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Jokes on you all. I just get a refund and will transfer to an alt. SP and AUR? Check. But just because I was prepared. Surely you can't transfer merc packs to another PSN account? Because I would have thought that when they reset the account that purchased the merc pack that both your main and alts would be reset (just like every other time) Why you think only your main is going to get reset is beyond me?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2677	Posted - 2013.05.05 03:03:00 - [57] - Quote Rorschach Mustang wrote: Garrett, There's no clear wording on what a "reset" is. CCP could easily claim that a reset would be removing everyone's SP and ISK to everyone is on equal ground, similar to how MMOs in beta reset everyone's character when the game goes live. In this case, it technically isn't a reset as everyone keeps their SP and ISK. It's just a respec. Actually, it's defined as "character reset" as explained by CCP elsewhere. The argument isn't about the "reset" part though. It's about "and for the commercial release" which doesn't specify anything about needing to be reset to get the credit.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 399	Posted - 2013.05.05 03:35:00 - [58] - Quote Void Echo wrote: in other words "hi, we are ccp, if we discontinue anything you paid for, in your country it means we just stole your money and theres nothing you can do about it" How is this different from any modern gaming company? You at least got to try out the Beta for months. Try returning Sim City V when it flat didn't work, bugs were enormous and the servers wouldn't let you play single player because you couldn't log on. Nobody got a refund. There has been threats of a lawsuit but little will come of that when the total costs are $60 per complainant. The lawyers will get most of it. Without Steam intervening nobody would have gotten a refund from the War-z fiasco. EUA/TOS were both read and I agreed to them. I spent my $20 to let them know I was behind them on their product the rewards were bonuses. For that matter, try your attitude with any Software Company since ... I dunno, the Windows XP era. No Refunds, No Returns. Damaged content media is the only reason and the only recourse is to get that media replaced.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 399	Posted - 2013.05.05 03:38:00 - [59] - Quote @Rasatsu, indeed. It was the only rational solution. If I have to go through another character wipe I am done with DUST and I know many of my mates are firmly in that camp as well. Four was two too many.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 56	Posted - 2013.05.05 03:39:00 - [60] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Jokes on you all. I just get a refund and will transfer to an alt. SP and AUR? Check. But just because I was prepared. Surely you can't transfer merc packs to another PSN account? Because I would have thought that when they reset the account that purchased the merc pack that both your main and alts would be reset (just like every other time) Why you think only your main is going to get reset is beyond me? the imperfects are so full of **** their eyes are turning brown.



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