CCP took one of the most finicky weapons in the game and said "we're lowering its stats." That's a good way to **** a bunch of people off, especially when the weapon is considered lackluster by the majority of the player community to begin with. It doesn't help that even reducing the HMG's damage by as little as two points would cost the weapon over 10% of its base damage. It's a sticky situation and CCP does not have a great track record when it comes to bringing weapons into line.

HTFU

one of the cornerstones of the heavies are UP arguments was in relation to their SP and ISK cost. The fact the HMGs and Heavy suits had a far larger SP commitment additional proto versions of the weapons and suits were extemely out of proportion compared to other classes in the same tier.

Amarr Sentinel
* Sentinel Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to weapon feedback damage per level

Weapon tiers streamlined so that more side grades are unlocked in the advanced tier and more exotic variants in the prototype tier

Lowered prices on standard and advanced items in all categories while keeping the price level of prototype items mostly intact
* Simplified the pricing on dropsuits GÇô thereGÇÖs now just one price category (i.e. heavy dropsuits now cost the same as assault dropsuits of the same meta level)
* Simplified the pricing of weapons GÇô they now have two price categories, primary weapons and sidearms (i.e. heavy machine guns will now cost the same as assault rifles, and nova knives the same as scrambler pistols of the same meta level)

Moreover EHP is greater when built up, Armor tanking is viable due to plate variants that dont effect movement speed. (they can also tweak those base stats on the suit if need be as well as the HMG)

So not only are the weapons cheaper but the SP sink is diminished for equivalent levels of the same suits. Additionally with less prerequisites than needed now to get equivalent levels of assualt and other suits means less SP commitment to the creation of the build.

Yet the myopic, too long dont read summarize everything in 140 character chunks approach to viewing the picture, rather than learning to step back and see the whole "board" is the reason for the outrage. Many of the major arguments that were used to prop up the heavies suck, ccp ruined heavies, heavies are UP threads over the last few months are gone.

Less SP to get into the weapons and suits by virtue of the changes in the skill progression system
Normalized and fixed cost for the suits and weapons so they are no longer disproportionate to the other suits
The global reduction cost of EVERYTHING in terms of ISK(look at cazedrons and novas vid and actually look at those prices(yet our payouts are remaining at current levels, which means far easier to maintain profitability in "inferior" class.
You can get more effective tank because of changes to how armor functions


But this is most important. People forgot that when you create a character what are the classes they are

Artificer, Arbitrer, Enforcer, Sentinel

Enforcer:
The ultimate frontline soldiers, Enforcers specialize in direct assault and close-quarters combat.

Sentinel:
Sentinels are trained and equipped to neutralize vehicular threats on the battlefield. Often the last line of defense, they never flinch and never retreat.

Nowhere does the role suggest you are mobile tank if anything you are the line. You are meant to hold the fort and not sway from it.


Fact is people chose the heavy class because they thought of it as a DMG dealer. It is a Tank(it absorbs dmg and distract the dmg dealing slayers, while the (healers, logis) kept them afloat(if you ever had a fractal on your back or sat atop a tight defensive killbox with the (eye of sauron: a bunch of lvl 4-5 triage only hives and ammo hives) you'd know thats how to play a sentinel class.

The problem isn't AR 514 its everyone tries to play the other roles like they are the AR slayer role. CCP spoiled you by actually letting you get away with it for a while but in truth your job is by nature bullet sponge and suppression(thats what HMG's are for) Oh before i forget anyone in a competitve match know how ruthless an officer HMG with Dmg mods can be(now with armor tank being viable its even more so) ask the Hellstorm's that played PFB for 200M ISK what they can be like.


So to quote some common phrases, HTFU and more importantly Adapt or die. This is a squad based tactical shooter which is very much how a raiding party in MMO functions as a unit not a collection of individual pieces.

Perhaps it time this base learned to play their roles and if they cant or dont like it pick one that they can play.

The HEAVY SENTINEL is a SSR(situational support role), quit the QQ and learn to play it.

The sentinel classs says it can withstand small arms fire, yet assault suits last longer.

Preach it, Keyser! Put the fear of God into them!

Uh-oh. AR514 CodBoi...See...Your argument would be valid except the nerf to HMG damage is really...Bad. Why would I be suppressed when your gun does less damage than mine? I'll just kill you instead. Hell, The MD and AR are the best suppression weapons in the game right now, and what suits use those two weapons...? Assault suit...? Are you sure? Nah, couldn't be...

Then play a different role because your job is to stay stationary, or you know use LAVs to overcome the mobility(perhaps G-slick needs to make a comeback and teach you all the art of murder taxi) (Hell dropships dropping heavies are even better)

Your job isnt to move from objective to objective (thats pub play noob stuff) In real competition you protect the objectives and guard the flanks. If you guys actaully played more organized matches against teams that do these things you'd learn but instead you duck them. Its okay blame the IMPS, i guess in our hiatus people had noone to challenge you all, forcing you to adapt or die.

Not to worry though we will be schooling the community soon enough in FW and PC when you see what a well oiled machine of 16 functioning as 1 looks like.

HTFU and more importantly Adapt or die.

Also, guess what? If you've never used a heavy, then your opinion on this doesn't count

Fortunately my opinion is the only one that matters...


...to me.

Where were you to defend heavies when it was all the assault users that were QQing?

Bunch of hypocrites.

HTFU

one of the cornerstones of the heavies are UP arguments was in relation to their SP and ISK cost. The fact the HMGs and Heavy suits had a far larger SP commitment additional proto versions of the weapons and suits were extemely out of proportion compared to other classes in the same tier.

Amarr Sentinel
* Sentinel Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to weapon feedback damage per level

Weapon tiers streamlined so that more side grades are unlocked in the advanced tier and more exotic variants in the prototype tier

Lowered prices on standard and advanced items in all categories while keeping the price level of prototype items mostly intact
* Simplified the pricing on dropsuits GÇô thereGÇÖs now just one price category (i.e. heavy dropsuits now cost the same as assault dropsuits of the same meta level)
* Simplified the pricing of weapons GÇô they now have two price categories, primary weapons and sidearms (i.e. heavy machine guns will now cost the same as assault rifles, and nova knives the same as scrambler pistols of the same meta level)

Moreover EHP is greater when built up, Armor tanking is viable due to plate variants that dont effect movement speed. (they can also tweak those base stats on the suit if need be as well as the HMG)

So not only are the weapons cheaper but the SP sink is diminished for equivalent levels of the same suits. Additionally with less prerequisites than needed now to get equivalent levels of assualt and other suits means less SP commitment to the creation of the build.

Yet the myopic, too long dont read summarize everything in 140 character chunks approach to viewing the picture, rather than learning to step back and see the whole "board" is the reason for the outrage. Many of the major arguments that were used to prop up the heavies suck, ccp ruined heavies, heavies are UP threads over the last few months are gone.

Less SP to get into the weapons and suits by virtue of the changes in the skill progression system
Normalized and fixed cost for the suits and weapons so they are no longer disproportionate to the other suits
The global reduction cost of EVERYTHING in terms of ISK(look at cazedrons and novas vid and actually look at those prices(yet our payouts are remaining at current levels, which means far easier to maintain profitability in "inferior" class.
You can get more effective tank because of changes to how armor functions


But this is most important. People forgot that when you create a character what are the classes they are

Artificer, Arbitrer, Enforcer, Sentinel

Enforcer:
The ultimate frontline soldiers, Enforcers specialize in direct assault and close-quarters combat.

Sentinel:
Sentinels are trained and equipped to neutralize vehicular threats on the battlefield. Often the last line of defense, they never flinch and never retreat.

Nowhere does the role suggest you are mobile tank if anything you are the line. You are meant to hold the fort and not sway from it.


Fact is people chose the heavy class because they thought of it as a DMG dealer. It is a Tank(it absorbs dmg and distract the dmg dealing slayers, while the (healers, logis) kept them afloat(if you ever had a fractal on your back or sat atop a tight defensive killbox with the (eye of sauron: a bunch of lvl 4-5 triage only hives and ammo hives) you'd know thats how to play a sentinel class.

The problem isn't AR 514 its everyone tries to play the other roles like they are the AR slayer role. CCP spoiled you by actually letting you get away with it for a while but in truth your job is by nature bullet sponge and suppression(thats what HMG's are for) Oh before i forget anyone in a competitve match know how ruthless an officer HMG with Dmg mods can be(now with armor tank being viable its even more so) ask the Hellstorm's that played PFB for 200M ISK what they can be like.


So to quote some common phrases, HTFU and more importantly Adapt or die. This is a squad based tactical shooter which is very much how a raiding party in MMO functions as a unit not a collection of individual pieces.

Perhaps it time this base learned to play their roles and if they cant or dont like it pick one that they can play.

The HEAVY SENTINEL is a SSR(situational support role), quit the QQ and learn to play it.

Wait until he sees how ****y the AR is going to be on Monday. Let's see who gives a flying kitten about his walls of text then.

Wait until he sees how ****y the AR is going to be on Monday. Let's see who gives a flying kitten about his walls of text then.

Amen I am tired of Heavies crying every other thread.

Yes, because I love being shoehorned into a corner and told no matter what I do to the contrary, i will never be able to escape the box I have been stuffed in.

If I can't have an HMG that's actually capable of dishing out pain then there's little pioint of going heavy. Forge gun is a blast but I'm not going to skill into a suit with one viable weapon.

And no, ARs don't count, I prefer running AR on lighter suits.

That's because this "HTFU and more importantly Adapt or die." is actually code for this ""

How'd they change it?

I know they took SS out, but I'm playing without SS right now and I'm doing fine. Did they do something else?

read something in the OP (didn`t see anyone mention it in the comments so I`ll take a whack at it and see if I`m wrong), the way the ISK cost compared to different items isn`t the same in the OP as it is in the patch notes, from what I read:

weapons: first step was to put category's, side arm, light and heavy, then place tech lv, all the light weapons of the same tech lv will cost the same, if its a different weapon class or tech it will have a different cost, so side arm STD will be cheaper then heavy STD, this on the other hand doesn`t apply to drop suits, drop suits it only matters the tech lv not role. as for DSes (Drop Ships) the cost will be 50% of the current build and the one viewed from fan fest (note, they were holding back in fan Fest, the patch notes are the real deal.... on the other hand, the assault DSes priced wouldn`t be new if it were halved so that might have been the real price for the assault DSes) turrets will cost more and vehicle modules will be cheaper. STD and ADV tech gear will be cheaper and PRO gear will be roughly the same.

ARs are already gimped in range they dont fill the mid range at all. Doesnt change the fact that thats their niche along with agility and mobility allowing them to function in CQC but proper teamfire and assualts drop.

ARs are already gimped in range they dont fill the mid range at all. Doesnt change the fact that thats their niche

No SS = No more pub stomping, limited to ~80m, snipers/lasers having more fun, and my MD bringing the pain. ARs still need a damage nerf though but that's never gonna happen.