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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
113
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Posted - 2013.05.01 15:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the title pretty much says it all. I can usually take on any soldier I face, but MD users give me nightmares. There doesnt seem to be a range where I have the advantage with any gun over a really good MD user. The splash on the assault variety makes it even easier to hit me at all sorts of ranges.
I will admit, they usually dont kill me in a fight but I usually dont kill them, theres this sort of stand off of "if i try to shoot you, youll blow me up"
Basically my issue is, I cant aim through the smoke and the disorientation of the MD. I have tried to close the gap and get in their face, because when I try to use the MD that makes me freak out and blow myself to hell, but they just sort of murder me with splash damage anyway.
Perhaps it doesnt help that I usually run scout, so I dont have enough health to tank the splash well, but even in other situations MD users are my biggest issue.
This isnt a MD is OP post, I myself cant use them for ****. But how does one counter a really good MD user? Last night some dude was hitting me at my lazers max range. No idea what I could do to kill him quicker. Is there an easy way to distinguish betweeen the assault and standard MD when being shot at? Because its hard to assume one or the other and determine if you can tank enough splash to kill them. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
113
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Posted - 2013.05.01 16:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
While pooping I was thinking about my problem with MD users. I believe part of it I dont know how many rounds they hold or what the reload time on them is. If I was more familiar with those things I could pick better opportunities to strike. But even then, as a scout, its hard to make them miss enough splash to survive a clip.
Right now I just run away and let someone else deal with the MD, the problem is it effectively locks off areas of the map for me if a solid MD user is there. |
Tac Com
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
45
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Posted - 2013.05.01 16:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think you mainly answered the question yourself. Tanking the rounds is usually the best way to survive. If you factor in that most of the rounds will hit on splash and not direct damage, then MDs have one of, if not the lowest DPS in the game. Thier strength lies in hitting behind cover and causing disorientation when trying to fight back at them.
Generally the best way to deal with them is have someone a bit tougher take the damage. A scout will usually have a tough time against MDs unless you're already right in thier face. But then they might just kill themselves instead of giving you the kill. A more tanked out Assault or Logi usually fare better.
But I think the real key to taking them down is practice, as learning how to keep them in your sights while being disorientated by the rounds will often allow you to drop most MD users as they won't beable to put out enough damage.
Hope this helps.
PS: 6 rounds for regular Mass Drivers, 8 rounds for Assault Mass Drivers. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
288
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Posted - 2013.05.01 16:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you're a scout you're pretty much ****** vs everything.
For the mass driver, you want to use cover, like boxes and try to avoid the splash as best as possible. Kind of hard depending on the kind of MD, as the Boundless Assault has a blast radius of 9m. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
113
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Posted - 2013.05.01 17:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
I usually hold my own as a scout. It requires map awareness and good accuracy while strafing, but the only things I cant upgrade in the game are hitbox and movement speed (not sprint) so with that in mind, those are the two areas scouts excel at. Plus I just like the gameplay of a scout, the speed feels more on the level of Arena shooters I am more fond of than the military shooters of COD and BF3.
I hate not being able to jump over a 2 inch curb as other suits...
But yeah I do find it very difficult to take on MD as one though, because they negate the "speed tanking" aspect the hitbox and movement speed give me by just needing to shoot near me. A few splashes and my 300 health is donezo.
But I even have trouble against MD even as an assault or logi. Strangely enough, I find I am most effective with MD against heavy, cause its easy to land those direct hits, but I dont have an issue killing MD as heavy. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University
Ivy League
281
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Posted - 2013.05.01 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fighting a Mass Driver with a Scout Suit and laser riffle is about the worst case scenario.
As you alluded to, Scout Suits tank by avoiding being hit in the first place, while splash damage is very hard to avoid.
Then add to that the fact you need to keep a steady bead on them to be effective with a laser riffle, so you canGÇÖt step out, take a few shots, and step back behind cover before the MD round lands.
My best advice is to run, take cover, loose him, then flank around and try to sneak up behind him. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
1013
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Posted - 2013.05.01 18:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
I just want to say I was fighting you & with you last night as a Militia Scout with a Breach Mass Driver.
If you want to counter the breach mass driver, Sprint away but doing unpredictable running patterns. At anything outside CQC Breach is worthless. Then you can turn and fight. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
289
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Posted - 2013.05.01 19:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I usually hold my own as a scout. It requires map awareness and good accuracy while strafing
Yah, but if you go against other players who have good map awareness and accuracy ;)
Anyways, you do *usually* have the sprint speed/stamina advantage unless you're fighting at the proto level, and hopefully that does not need to be done a lot in pub games.
I have found that the hardest person to hit with a mass driver is someone who is behind a few boxes, can move, and can aim. At that point, I am better off just running away, or charging at the guy in a suicide attempt just because I know I'm going to die. There was some assclown who brought out a duvolle and proto suit vs my type-II logi >.>
Most people who use mass drivers are terrible with it, and many of them use it because they have no gun game. So you can use that fact to your advantage. You are probably used to players trying to think a step or two ahead of you, moving between cover, preventing you from doing the same, watching your shield recharge and their own, but most of that can all be thrown out the window by 90% of all mass driver users. But as you pointed out, mass drivers have crazy high splash damage.
I almost never say this, but if you're in a scout suit and want to fight a MD user, I'd say go ahead and just assume that the MD user is a bad player. If he's not, you're ****** because there's almost no way you can win. This game calculates direct damage by adding the splash damage in too, so you get some mass drivers doing 600+ damage for a direct hit. This one shots even proto scouts.
Since bad mass driver users almost never land direct hits, most will not even try. Occasionally they will, but they almost never land and it's easier to dodge than a single rocket fired at long range in UT99. They will try to kill you with splash damage instead. If you make it so that they cannot hit you with splash damage, you might make it. So cover from splash damage ftw. You can stand right out in the middle of the open on top of a ledge and almost none of them can hit you. They have a lot of trouble hitting people who are higher than they are too, since they have no idea how to calculate arcs in their head when they are hitting a target who is higher than they are.
And as you know, jumping while in a fire fight is almost never a good idea. You cannot out-jump the splash damage of a mass driver, but you can jump up onto something and you'll cause them some pain. I love to do that, and it's something that most players do not do. I have no idea why, but that is their problem, and not mine. So if you see a MD, jump up onto a rail or some boxes or something. Make sure there's no wall behind you, and you'll stand a better chance if you can get any sort of elevation on them.
You should also keep in mind what kind of MD you're fighting. If it's proto, the alpha from even the splash can just wreck a scout in one or two hits at most. It's best not to engage those proto MD users.
I play a scout as my alt, and many people think it's hilarious when I see a MD land nearby. Usually I'm the gung ho Geronimo! type, and charge into five guys with the intention of dropping a few before I die. When I hear *thunk* *thunk* *thunk* I go from balls to the wall to full retreat while screaming like a little girl, "Mass driver! Run awayyyyyyyy!"
Anyways, it's up to you. I usually play with a squad who can back me up.
Oh, and the other thing that you may not have known is that the mass driver actually shakes you and messes up your aim. So if you're shooting your gun and a MD goes off next to you, your aim will be thrown off. If you're running with a squad, the MD's greatest asset is its ability to make it so that an enemy cannot aim. It is also a great area denial weapon, but it really shines when run with other ARs. You get an almost god-like duo going on, because no enemies should be able to get enough shots off to kill you or your friend before you can kill them. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
113
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Posted - 2013.05.01 19:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
First the lazer situation was as an assault, i like scout, but not enough to run around with a lazer with it. If Im standing still, melting faces from a distance, I prefer a bit more tank. It was one particularly adapt MD user there that chased me off despite having him at massive range. The shots were ridiculous, but im pretty sure it was assault and just big splash dealing damage.
As for Bojo, its hard to determine what variation you are up against though. You can SORT of tell by damage and stuff, but at the same time you cant guarentee a splash versus direct hit or modules and skills etc.
Sometimes Im probably in a good situation to take out an assault (close enough to get in his face and murder him while able to survive the splash since the damage is far less) but all I know at the time is that guy is shooting explosions at me, and if they arent assault, they will murder me.
And for breach, id probably feel confident in taking one of them on too since it has such little splash comparitively, but again the problem is knowing. If I engage a breach, thinking its an assault, he might murder me. If I engage a standard, thinking its assault, the splash will kill me before i can land enough shots.
So my by best success has been cooking nades and taking them out relatively CQ that way. I dont need to see through the smoke and explosions to whip a nade, and the kill time for it is quick enough that they cant get enough shots off to splash me to death. But it requires a solid throw, which at mid ranges, im not great at. |
Justin Tymes
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2013.05.01 19:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Please do be careful when you get up close though. Some Mass Driver Logibros use REs, and he can very well be baiting you into one. |
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IR Scifi
The Tribal Warfare Agency
21
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Posted - 2013.05.01 20:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
0 Try Harder said it best but I'll toss my half an isk in as a MD user. I shouldn't share this because I really love the MD and it'll no doubt drop my already sad (even for a logibro) KDR. It's finally got about the right oomph it deserves though so I guess I want people to see it's limitations before the drooling masses start whining for nerf bat application. My kryptonite is as follows:
1. Elevation, not entirely sure why but if you've got a height advantage on me you'll be pretty immune to anything I lob. I hope it'll be fixed at some point in the future.
2. Leading the target, believe it or not it's not a point and click weapon, there's a distinct travel time on the round before it impacts. So I can't (unless we're cqc which is another discussion) aim where you are now, I have to aim where you'll be in about a second or two.
3. CQC, splash damage is on average (see #1) just as lethal to me as it is to you once you close within 2m or so.
4. Cover, splash damage be damned if you're dodging in and out of cover effectively I can guarantee that unless I get a lucky shot off you'll win the battle.
5. Reloading, I don't even need to explain this one. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
27
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Posted - 2013.05.01 21:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
It seems like this was answered a couple times. But I just a have a tip or two.
At a certain range, Mass Drivers aren't a problem. And in the description is says 'Area Denial Weapon'. I myself, as a Mass Driver user, hate to go the extra mile. Literally. I'll ONLY waste MD ammo to block off an area. It's just one of those weapons that are only good on one end. Like you said, can't aim through the smoke and debris? That's why its what some call a 'Terror Weapon'.
My point? Well in Pewds words... "**** THIS! I'M OUTTA HERE! D:<". MD users won't chase you down, because ammo count is so low. And range isn't really magnificent either, although I use nothing but the 'Exo-5' and the Standard. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 22:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I find what you say about MD users funny, because while I believe that to be true in theory, I absolutely am terrible with the MD. I dont have the patience to learn the arc of it, so there is a certain...skill to it at least.
The big thing is strafe to aim. I'm not sure if you're using a keyboard and mouse or a controller, but it's easier to do with a controller. Strafe of KB is just A or D at once speed, or one can move diagonally using A+W or D+W, back diagonally with A+s or D+S. KB movement is much more predictable that controller.
Since MD is one shot at a time, has a visible trail, and you only need to get one, at most two direct hits, you can time your shot during your strafe. Simply adjust the view to the elevation that you wish to shoot at, and strafe. Once you are over the target area, pull the trigger. You'll have a few shots to correct your aim if you miss, but eventually you'll just be running around one shotting many people. It's hilarious. Just *thunk* and *splat*. You can also make slight adjustments to elevation by strafing slightly forward, or slightly in reverse. Angles ftw.
The MD's sight not ADS is this huge line down a large portion of your screen, and the MD always shoots in a straight line. Also, it's video game mechanics, so the MD round always fires in a straight line from where you pulled the trigger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ||
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ||
So strafe like this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fire || >>>>>>>>>>
round travels in straight line.
It's not like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ||
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ||
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ||
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fire || >>>>>>>>>
So you just fire when your cross hairs go over your target, and it's win. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
28
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Posted - 2013.05.01 22:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Try Harder: (First, hi. I saw you in a match my bro was playing earlier. :D)
Second, I don't think you're calculating the arc of fire... It doesn't shoot in a straight line, its like throwing a rock out of a high-powered, futuristic launcher. :P
If you aim, theres a dash in the middle of the thing. That's a marker showing the high-point of your launch. Then it descends. That's just a reference though. Never aim with an MD, you get terrible results. What helps me and my skill-less behind, is having a 3D look at things. I can't see very well with that sight, so my firing is very innaccurate. :P |
M3DIC 2U
Onslaught Initiative
50
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Posted - 2013.05.03 17:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Move in close, though a good assault MD will just change to his SMG and finish you off.
All MD's hold 6 rounds and have a base reload of I think 4 seconds. This decreases with Rapid Reload training though and is a must for any MD user.
MD is supposed to be an area denial/artillary weapon. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
33
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Posted - 2013.05.04 02:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Brilliant points (There's a rapid reload skill...?), and I'm just gonna say, if you see a LOGISTICS Mass Driver user, he's not going to switch to an SMG (No Sidearm slot...), and the closer you get, the easier it is for a direct hit, which does (In my knowledge) 3x the normal damage of Splash. So getting in close with an MD user is suicide, for both teams, if it's not a Breach. Like I said before, just run. Although if you're feeling luck, yes, an AR is one of few Infantry weapons that can kill me, if I'm focusing enough. |
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