DUST Search - [Request] Remove Free Passive SP

0 Try Harder wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE

Don't be stupid. You should play the game if you want to get better, and not be hand-held all the way.

Yes, passive SP only makes the game lolmoarE-Brutalz for new players, but ******* easy mode for vets. Why don't the vets want to have active SP only?

Because they're weak and actually do not like or play "brutal" games. I've seen EVE guys whine that they got spawn camped so they are going back to EVE. So EVE is less brutal than spawning in a couple of times in a free suit and dying because you were too stupid to use drop uplinks? EVE even lets people get money from not fighting each other. You can generate money in EVE. It's not like every time you make money, someone else loses it.

That is completely counter to what DUST is like. If I want to make ISK, I go into a game and take it from other people. If I want to make lots of corp battle ISK, I am taking it away from another corp.

That's it. The only way that goes against the play to win idea are AFK ISK and SP farming, and passive SP is just another way of AFK SP farming. It's seriously hurting the game.

Passive SP also gives people the misconception that they will get better by not playing the game. That is stupid. Passive SP is CCP encouraging people to play other games instead.

I'm curious. I want numbers. I want to see how much activity increased when CCP put in the 3x active SP with cap increase. How many boosters were bought. Which alts had not been played were played. Who started new accounts for it.

I bet that CCP saw an increase in activity. This will only continue if CCP gets rid of free passive SP.

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0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 285	Posted - 2013.04.30 02:07:00 - [1] - Quote I would like to see free passive SP removed from the game. I have multiple alts. They have all been generating passive SP. I have used boosters to increase SP generation on my main, but there is no reason for me to boost how much SP my alts are making because they now have plenty, and they will continue to accumulate more and more of it. Recently for this 3x SP week, the SP cap has been increased too. I bought and used one a discounted 7-day active booster for my alt. I realized that had my alt not had any passive SP generation, it is highly likely that I would have used boosters to get my alts started, or used them when I played. If CCP made it so that passive SP is not generated on new characters unless they had a passive SP augmentation, I would have paid CCP more money. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I would happily have given more money to CCP. I do budget how much I spend on games a month, and I have bought many games over the past few months instead of boosters and the like for my alts. I do not believe that this will make CCP lose money, because players who buy the merc pack for the active booster and AUR to buy passive boosters will continue to do so. Over time, alts will also cause me to spend less money on this game. If my main has enough SP to do what I want to do for one primary role, I will play alts when I want to do other things. A few of my alts have prototype gear. Because my alts have top level gear, a large part due to passive SP, I feel less inclined to buy boosters for my main because I can already do everything I want to do. To balance this, the paid for passive SP generation would need to be lower than the current passive SP generation. I believe that the difference between the current generation of free passive SP and the boosted passive SP should become the new passive SP gain. Perhaps increasing the active SP cap would be a good idea, but that is all up to CCP. I also dislike the idea of passive SP. It seems counter to the entire game. When I first started and saw the words "Skill Points" and found out that you gained it even while not playing, I laughed because I thought the devs were making a big joke. If they are, it is still pretty funny, but people are taking it seriously, like it is something which should continue to be in the game. And to reiterate, I am not for lowering the passive SP game, I am for removing it completely. Lowering it means I and others will just continue to do what we are doing with our alts anyways.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 285	Posted - 2013.04.30 02:11:00 - [2] - Quote tl;dr Remove Free Passive SP gain, but allow players to continue to buy boosters that will allow them to gain passive SP at the current difference between the boosted and not boosted level. Example: you gain 50 SP a week, and someone with a booster gains 75. Now you'll gain 0 SP a week, and someone with a booster will earn 25. Possible increase of the weekly SP cap by 50 SP to offset the loss in SP generation. Or CCP could just remove passive SP entirely. I would be fine with that too, but I figure that they'll want people to continue to buy passive SP boosters.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 111	Posted - 2013.04.30 02:14:00 - [3] - Quote Go away, passive SP is a huge part of what makes levelling up in Dust so unique. You mention that all three of your characters have generated passive SP, but even if you had put passive onto each of your characters, the game has only been in open beta for about three months meaning that you couldn't even have got a million SP on each of those characters!
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 285	Posted - 2013.04.30 02:54:00 - [4] - Quote I checked forums, and passive SP gain appears to be 168,000 without boosters. If there are four weeks in a month, and the game has been in open beta for three months, that means that the open beta has been around for about twelve weeks. 12*16800 = 2,016,000. So each one that I have not played has gained 2,016,000-ish SP. I think we start off with 500,000, so that puts me at around 2.5mil. I only play three accounts regularly, but I have many more just generating passive SP, and they'll continue to do so for as long as passive SP is around ;) I thought about playing them, but then decided it would be more cool to start off on a brand new character with 0 games played, 0 kills, 0 losses, 0 wins, 0 deaths, etc etc with many millions of SP. Every once in awhile I log in to put points in the "core skills".
Skihids The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 1220	Posted - 2013.04.30 03:31:00 - [5] - Quote Unless it's changed recently you can only activate passive SP for one character per account. You need boosters to get passive on your alts.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 285	Posted - 2013.04.30 03:42:00 - [6] - Quote Skihids wrote: Unless it's changed recently you can only activate passive SP for one character per account. You need boosters to get passive on your alts. PSN accounts are free. You can make more than one PSN account, and get the full free passive SP on that character there. It's not EVE where you have to pay a subscription for one account ;) edit: So no, you do not need boosters to get passive SP on alts.
Deadeye Dic IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 14	Posted - 2013.04.30 04:24:00 - [7] - Quote I disagree, the purpose of the passive SP gain while not logged in is specifically there for the same reason that EvE players still get XP while they are logged off. Not everyone treats Dust as a career and they have a life. Besides, what difference does it make? If you play everyday, you get way more than 2 million SP per month. If players that only play 10 hours a week don't play everyday, even with the passive, they only get what Cap? Your argument and reasoning makes no sense and you have failed to otherwise provide a solid reason why it should be done away with, other than because you think so.
Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1063	Posted - 2013.04.30 04:30:00 - [8] - Quote RINON114 wrote: You mention that all three of your characters have generated passive SP, but even if you had put passive onto each of your characters, the game has only been in open beta for about three months meaning that you couldn't even have got a million SP on each of those characters! While I don't agree with OP, I have alts which were created part way into open beta who already have considerably more than a million SP.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 996	Posted - 2013.04.30 04:53:00 - [9] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: RINON114 wrote: You mention that all three of your characters have generated passive SP, but even if you had put passive onto each of your characters, the game has only been in open beta for about three months meaning that you couldn't even have got a million SP on each of those characters! While I don't agree with OP, I have alts which were created part way into open beta who already have considerably more than a million SP. O Try Harder has the same stance on passive skills but apparently not passive SP. My way at look at Passive SP, which according to lore, skill points are like artificial knowledge, is that when you go to bed thinking about a problem, then wake up and you know the solution, you were thinking in your sleep, passively, and in the end you gained the knowledge despite lack of active participation in the thoughts. So passive SP is sort of like passively learning; subconsciously thinking and thus perhaps learning.
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 382	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:05:00 - [10] - Quote Try something else. Passive SP is baked into CCP via EVE. There is no reason to disable it or turn it into an AUR only solution. It isn't like it is a game changer as it only affects one character. All the alts have to earn it the old fashioned way, by killing things. Does that mean you want all Characters Wiped to balance the books as well? Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I-Shayz-I ZionTCD Unclaimed. 217	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:18:00 - [11] - Quote I have three different PSN accounts instead of using the in-game alts. This allows me to have passive sp on all of my characters. Both of my alts have 3m sp right now from just sitting there. I've been able to test out a great deal with this before I actually go and spend any on my main character. Also, passive sp lets my friends play occasionally when they come over and have something new to do every single time. It's enjoying for them to come back after a week and play on one of my alts and be able to spend the 170k sp that has been accumulated.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 285	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:30:00 - [12] - Quote Deadeye Dic wrote: Your argument and reasoning makes no sense and you have failed to otherwise provide a solid reason why it should be done away with, other than because you think so. My argument is that I would have given CCP more $ had there been no free passive SP. Some players have suggested that keeping passive SP in makes it so that there's less of a gap between people who no life it, and those who log on once or twice a month. That's terrible. Why should this game cater to players who do not even play? This is not EVE. There is no subscription. If people are paying not to play, ie buying passive boosters, my request will allow them to continue to do so. People cry every day about people AFK farming. Passive SP is AFK farming.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 285	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:39:00 - [13] - Quote People constantly write that "New Eden iz brutalz lolololol" There is nothing "brutal" about one account just magically getting millions of SP. Yah right, this game is so "brutal" that you do not even need to play it to get good gear!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3585	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:51:00 - [14] - Quote Comparing it to AFK farming doesn't make sense, AFK farming hurts your team because you're using up a player slot that could be used by someone actually useful to the team. Passive SP gain doesn't hurt anyone, and gives incentives to players to come back to the game after stopping for a while.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 178	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:52:00 - [15] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: People constantly write that "New Eden iz brutalz lolololol" There is nothing "brutal" about one account just magically getting millions of SP. Yah right, this game is so "brutal" that you do not even need to play it to get good gear! This is true.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 316	Posted - 2013.04.30 07:10:00 - [16] - Quote XeroTheBigBoss wrote: 0 Try Harder wrote: People constantly write that "New Eden iz brutalz lolololol" There is nothing "brutal" about one account just magically getting millions of SP. Yah right, this game is so "brutal" that you do not even need to play it to get good gear! This is true. No, you need to play it to get good. Dust would be fine if all SP was passive.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 247	Posted - 2013.04.30 09:32:00 - [17] - Quote This is EVE. Passive SP stay there.
Mithridates VI IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 1067	Posted - 2013.04.30 09:50:00 - [18] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Deadeye Dic wrote: Your argument and reasoning makes no sense and you have failed to otherwise provide a solid reason why it should be done away with, other than because you think so. My argument is that I would have given CCP more $ had there been no free passive SP. CCP would make more money if they sold active SP for cash as well. They could also sell ISK and districts but they add some things to the game because it's part of their player retention/attraction scheme, not because it directly translates into cash. Every person who ever quits DUST knows that their character improves while they are gone, increasing the likelihood that they will eventually return and once again become a consumer.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 316	Posted - 2013.04.30 12:39:00 - [19] - Quote Well if you want New Eden to brutal then i have a better idea Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE So if you want weaponary lvl5 instead of being able to get it in a day you will have to wait 4 days for it, if you want Caldari dropsuit lvl5 you will have to wait 23days instead, you want Caldari HAV 5 its a month Cant get more brutal than that
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 234	Posted - 2013.04.30 12:48:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Well if you want New Eden to brutal then i have a better idea Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE So if you want weaponary lvl5 instead of being able to get it in a day you will have to wait 4 days for it, if you want Caldari dropsuit lvl5 you will have to wait 23days instead, you want Caldari HAV 5 its a month Cant get more brutal than that When I first began this game, I was sad that there was this "active SP" crap. I was like, "this isn't the New Eden I'd signed up for!" When I thought more about it, I realized they'd lose players if they didn't have it because otherwise there's not much of a reason to play (aside from the fun factor).

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 316	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:14:00 - [21] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Well if you want New Eden to brutal then i have a better idea Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE So if you want weaponary lvl5 instead of being able to get it in a day you will have to wait 4 days for it, if you want Caldari dropsuit lvl5 you will have to wait 23days instead, you want Caldari HAV 5 its a month Cant get more brutal than that When I first began this game, I was sad that there was this "active SP" crap. I was like, "this isn't the New Eden I'd signed up for!" When I thought more about it, I realized they'd lose players if they didn't have it because otherwise there's not much of a reason to play (aside from the fun factor). True but OP is wanting it to be more brutal The idea doesnt even make new eden harder or more brutal, its another way for CCP to get more money and make the SP gap bigger but thats about it
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 234	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:21:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Well if you want New Eden to brutal then i have a better idea Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE So if you want weaponary lvl5 instead of being able to get it in a day you will have to wait 4 days for it, if you want Caldari dropsuit lvl5 you will have to wait 23days instead, you want Caldari HAV 5 its a month Cant get more brutal than that When I first began this game, I was sad that there was this "active SP" crap. I was like, "this isn't the New Eden I'd signed up for!" When I thought more about it, I realized they'd lose players if they didn't have it because otherwise there's not much of a reason to play (aside from the fun factor). True but OP is wanting it to be more brutal The idea doesnt even make new eden harder or more brutal, its another way for CCP to get more money and make the SP gap bigger but thats about it See, the thing is, if the SP gap gets bigger then new players are discouraged. New players tend to spend money. Some players will stop playing, and if no new players are coming in then the player base as a whole shrinks. Sounds like a great way to lose money. You've gotta cater to the newberries to keep them coming, and the oldberries to keep them around.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 779	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:33:00 - [23] - Quote You may want to rethink. Giving players passive SP will benefit you as much as the person getting the SP. Planetary conquest will have a loot mechanic based on what your enemies use while fighting. The more players with more SP the larger the loot pool, the higher the SP the better the gear the better the loot the more ISK everyone makes the more fun the game should be for everyone. Who cares if a few players decide to use 25 different alts to passive SP farm? It doesn't really hurt the game in any way that I can think of.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Unclaimed. 70	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:34:00 - [24] - Quote You get what 45% experience passive, and need to pay for a 50% increase to match what other players normally have for passive How is it a issue? Don't play get a bit, play get it all?
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 286	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:57:00 - [25] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE Don't be stupid. You should play the game if you want to get better, and not be hand-held all the way. Yes, passive SP only makes the game lolmoarE-Brutalz for new players, but ******* easy mode for vets. Why don't the vets want to have active SP only? Because they're weak and actually do not like or play "brutal" games. I've seen EVE guys whine that they got spawn camped so they are going back to EVE. So EVE is less brutal than spawning in a couple of times in a free suit and dying because you were too stupid to use drop uplinks? EVE even lets people get money from not fighting each other. You can generate money in EVE. It's not like every time you make money, someone else loses it. That is completely counter to what DUST is like. If I want to make ISK, I go into a game and take it from other people. If I want to make lots of corp battle ISK, I am taking it away from another corp. That's it. The only way that goes against the play to win idea are AFK ISK and SP farming, and passive SP is just another way of AFK SP farming. It's seriously hurting the game. Passive SP also gives people the misconception that they will get better by not playing the game. That is stupid. Passive SP is CCP encouraging people to play other games instead. I'm curious. I want numbers. I want to see how much activity increased when CCP put in the 3x active SP with cap increase. How many boosters were bought. Which alts had not been played were played. Who started new accounts for it. I bet that CCP saw an increase in activity. This will only continue if CCP gets rid of free passive SP.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 332	Posted - 2013.04.30 15:28:00 - [26] - Quote 0 Try Harder wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Take away active SP and make it all passive skilling just like EVE Don't be stupid. You should play the game if you want to get better, and not be hand-held all the way. Yes, passive SP only makes the game lolmoarE-Brutalz for new players, but ******* easy mode for vets. Why don't the vets want to have active SP only? Because they're weak and actually do not like or play "brutal" games. I've seen EVE guys whine that they got spawn camped so they are going back to EVE. So EVE is less brutal than spawning in a couple of times in a free suit and dying because you were too stupid to use drop uplinks? EVE even lets people get money from not fighting each other. You can generate money in EVE. It's not like every time you make money, someone else loses it. That is completely counter to what DUST is like. If I want to make ISK, I go into a game and take it from other people. If I want to make lots of corp battle ISK, I am taking it away from another corp. That's it. The only way that goes against the play to win idea are AFK ISK and SP farming, and passive SP is just another way of AFK SP farming. It's seriously hurting the game. Passive SP also gives people the misconception that they will get better by not playing the game. That is stupid. Passive SP is CCP encouraging people to play other games instead. I'm curious. I want numbers. I want to see how much activity increased when CCP put in the 3x active SP with cap increase. How many boosters were bought. Which alts had not been played were played. Who started new accounts for it. I bet that CCP saw an increase in activity. This will only continue if CCP gets rid of free passive SP. Active doesnt make the game brutal, not if it still has the same cap now I would only remove passive skilling for a no active cap problem then is everyone gets to proto in an instant and max out every part of the skill tree in a few months and then everyone is awesome at everything - meh no specializations everyone is jack of all trade master of all
Adstellarum G I A N T EoN. 46	Posted - 2013.04.30 17:56:00 - [27] - Quote ok try harder here is a situation where passive SP is needed..... a brand new newberry has just downloaded and finished installing the game boots it up creates his character... guys likes the idea of ambush.... well it so happens the game is already in progress and when he spawns in his free suit there is already someone there killing him so that is his first death with no WP he decides to wait for someone to come pick him up because he has no idea that random blueberries are **** for picking people up so that is like another 10 seconds gone.... so when he spawns in this time there is an uplink down since 1 he doesn't know that it is being camped and 2 he doesn't know he has to PRESS and HOLD square until the dropsuit selection comes up because I know that is not in the instructions in the game he spawns on that drop link only to be dead within a second of spawning because the game likes to take 5 seconds to load in on client side but on server side he is already there and taking the bullets.. and by this time the game ends and see that he receives 0 skill points and 0 isk because you decided to remove passive SP and Isk gains thus not allowing his character to grow at all even If it was just for 100 sp....... passive SP needs to be in because of the aforementioned case above, secondly ALL humans in game or real life are learning every second whether it be slow or fast so passive SP does make sense
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 287	Posted - 2013.04.30 18:05:00 - [28] - Quote Adstellarum wrote: and by this time the game ends and see that he receives 0 skill points and 0 isk because you decided to remove passive SP and Isk gains thus not allowing his character to grow at all even If it was just for 100 sp....... passive SP needs to be in because of the aforementioned case above I think you're mixing up passive SP and the kind you get from being in a match. Passive SP is the SP that just happens on your character. If you look at the "skills" tab, at the top you will see your SP. You should also see your SP go up by 1 every few seconds. That is what I would like to do away with. And I wasn't talking about starting SP. If you think that players should start with higher SP totals or just simply get more SP to help grow, that's a completely different discussion. I believe that there are other threads on this ;)
Zash Krusov Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.04.30 18:12:00 - [29] - Quote Ok, so. Your only argument, and point of contention, seems to be "I would have paid CCP to get passive SP, if I didn't get it for free. Y U NO MAKE ME PAY CCP!?" This is a bad thing? As it stands now, SP doesn't benefit people who don't play over people who play regularly. Everyone gets the same amount of passive SP (sans booster). Your solution to this 'problem', is to make passive SP only available to people who pay for it every week? That's a pretty weak argument. Sure, CCP might make more money selling passive boosters, and they might make less by the customers who aren't inclined to play after a few weeks vacation, since they have to incentive to. You have already stated that passive SP isn't hurting you. You are just miffed you didn't have to pay for it, and seem to be under the impression only special snowflakes should get it, not just everyone. My advice? Pay for a passive booster every week. There's your edge over random players who don't. And fixes your problem of not being forced to pay CCP for your passive SP. Passive SP is fine.
Mary Sedillo XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 6	Posted - 2013.04.30 20:01:00 - [30] - Quote You've got people wanting active sp gone. You've got a Bunny wanting passive gone. I've been playing for several months now and enjoy the mix of both. I get a healthy amount of active and passive. I see the advantages of both. This may not be EVE, but it is set in the same universe and knowledge is gained in much the similar way. All I see is someone who is running protos (the Bunny) getting angry because some of his precious suits are getting blown by people managing their SP well even though they aren't running protos. Can't make everyone happy, but I think keeping both will keep a larger audience engaged, from the 'hardcore' (lol) players to those who have jobs.



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