And give Dropships countermeasures against swarms along with an alert tone when they have been locked, tanks just get an alert tone.

Derpships can still outrun swarms so there is no point in even trying to shoot one down with that weapon, unless its a militia and hope they land on target an OHK it.

And give Dropships countermeasures against swarms along with an alert tone when they have been locked, tanks just get an alert tone.

Derpships can still outrun swarms so there is no point in even trying to shoot one down with that weapon, unless its a militia and hope they land on target an OHK it.

Than give an actual lock on time like 3-4 second instead of peek-a-boom ability.
And take away the ability to turn corners, and less ammo per magazine since you are increasing already insane DPS.

If you can't kill a drop ship with swarms your doing something seriously wrong...

If you cant dodge a swarm you are flying seriously wrong.

Than give an actual lock on time like 3-4 second instead of peek-a-boom ability.
And take away the ability to turn corners, and less ammo and half ammo per magazine since you are increasing already insane DPS.
Btw, swarms do HIT dropships, it is your fail.

Overall I think all vehicles should be much harder to kill(unless counter vehicle) but take much more effort(isk/sp) to acquire.

no..................................................................... swarms are already op from locking on behind cover now you want them to be faster.... suck a duck!!

And give Dropships countermeasures against swarms along with an alert tone when they have been locked, tanks just get an alert tone.

Derpships can still outrun swarms so there is no point in even trying to shoot one down with that weapon, unless its a militia and hope they land on target an OHK it.

You know guys I've been following this whole AV vs Vehicle debate for quite for some time now and the more threads I read on the topic, the more it reminds me of the republicans vs democrats discussions! And let me tell you something guys, that is NOT a compliment! Now people who know me, know that I'm all about straight talk and I don't dumb myself down for the slowest dude on the forums. So let me lay it down for you guys, cause I don't give a ****!

So what I believe is going on is something all too common in online games. I'm talking about unrealistic expectations, boys and girls. And let me make it crystal clear for you, guys: I don't give a **** whether you're pro AV or pro life, you're all suffering from unrealistic expectations! I mean my God, guys, some people think swarms should one shot a tank, and others tell me how shocked they are when half a team destroy their dropship! Settle the **** down! Let's all calm down, wait and see where CCP is going with this, let's understand their vision and THEN we can start to talk about balance, you **** heads.

I have yet to lock on without line of sight. I have always had to expose my merc to hostile fIre to lock on. Of course, if the tanker is dumb enough to park his nose in my line of sight and not have a nose gunner...

Smart tankers know when they're exposed.

Of course, smart tankers run with a full crew and an infantry screen to keep away AV.

Any tanker who routinely dies to AV must be considered as still in training. The good tankers very rarely die to AV, even in militia tanks.

If you cant dodge a swarm you are flying seriously wrong.

You know guys I've been following this whole AV vs Vehicle debate for quite for some time now and the more threads I read on the topic, the more it reminds me of the republicans vs democrats discussions! And let me tell you something guys, that is NOT a compliment! Now people who know me, know that I'm all about straight talk and I don't dumb myself down for the slowest dude on the forums. So let me lay it down for you guys, cause I don't give a ****!

So what I believe is going on is something all too common in online games. I'm talking about unrealistic expectations, boys and girls. And let me make it crystal clear for you, guys: I don't give a **** whether you're pro AV or pro life, you're all suffering from unrealistic expectations! I mean my God, guys, some people think swarms should one shot a tank, and others tell me how shocked they are when half a team destroy their dropship! Settle the **** down! Let's all calm down, wait and see where CCP is going with this, let's understand their vision and THEN we can start to talk about balance, you **** heads.

tanks are a significant expenditure and should require at least a squad to take down (for high end tanks) I have never seen a tank that a proto forge gunner couldn't take down first try.

Well, i have seen some good Dropship pilots in my time playing. They are not gimped by any means. Of course you will **** people off if you hover over an objective shooting people, which in turn makes people want to kill you. Which is why its good to be in contact with people on the ground instead of ferrying them all over the map.



I never understood why they do that sometimes, only happens to tanks though since they seem to favor flying towards the spot you first shot and then when they approach the target they speed up while turning towards the target.... instead of actively seeking the target.

The DPS is only insane if you have a crap tank or in a Derpship lol. The ammo doesnt necessarily need to be nerfd but the rate of fire may need adjusting.

The dropships will have countermeasures and if they goof and misuse it they should die. If a tank is sitting out in the open expecting to tank everything, it should die. Not have 10 seconds to find the nearest foothill while the swarms derp along like they are in a School Zone. But they tanks will know they are being locked anyways which will make them find cover, which i would prefer instead of wasting all my ammo for no reason.

Edit: People treat LAV's like trashcans as they try to murder taxi everything thinking everyone is noob, they SHOULD die. Good tankers are worth taking down because its not easy. I run AV when i have to. There is a forge gun, Swarm, and AV nades (and other tanks if you count those).... wow, thats alot of AV man.... (sarcasm)

complaining about swarms, lol. you are aware after you launch swarms you're basically a sitting duck for 3-5 seconds, YOU CANT SPRINT, YOU CANT CHANGE GUNS. you also have to survive while the swarms are in flight.( GG on realism CCP) if you die before the swarms hit their target, the swarms are voided.( much like cooking and sometimes throwing nades.)


PS CCP, i seen the video of the plasma cannon in action. Can you make an AV weapon seem anymore underwhelming.

complaining about swarms, lol. you are aware after you launch swarms you're basically a sitting duck for 3-5 seconds, YOU CANT SPRINT, YOU CANT CHANGE GUNS. you also have to survive while the swarms are in flight.( GG on realism CCP) if you die before the swarms hit their target, the swarms are voided.( much like cooking and sometimes throwing nades.)


PS CCP, i seen the video of the plasma cannon in action. Can you make an AV weapon seem anymore underwhelming.

Yeah, a lot of armor tankers secret fit is crap tank fit, my surya with all proto mod is crap, you are right, and proto swarms with 3 damage mod does not hit 3200+ without hardners. You make me laugh.

ye think i don't get is a tank driver waits till he has taken a few hits and is low to take cover it should be (shooting)
oh i have been hit better get out of the fire line



if the player is good most of the time we need to insta gib them

but alot of the time
if i get my team to distract the tank or lure the tank out
(and he is dumb enough)
to come close to us
we all run out AV nade him to death

I'm talking proto tanks that move none stop, my corp mates that have proto forges eat them for breakfast, and then ask for more. and if you can't do that with proto swarms you are doing something wrong.

let's play a game i like to call numbers

Swarm launcher
shoots 4 swarms that deal 300 damage each

as you go up in levels your launcher gets more swarm missiles
(im not on a ps3 atm so i don't know the numbers but)
i think its 6-7 swarms is at max level

so 6 x 300 = 1800 damage
now assuming you mean complex damage mods it would require you have enough points into weaponry to hit level 5
so that by it self is +10% damage
each damage mod (if complex) is +10%
so 3 damage mods ? +30% (no stacking penalties)

grand total of + 40% to the 1800 damage = 2520 damage
no this person had .A more damage mods or .B specialization in the weapon and i think that's only 3% per level

But not at the ps3 so can't be sure on the numbers but even with another 15% that's 55% + damage and thats only 2790

now let's look at a half decent tank fit with half decent mods

ive been told you can get about 5k hp tank with 30% active resistance

lets do some math
the tank when active is on is
5000 x 1.3 = 6500 EHP
my swarm does about 2790 damage
in 3 shots i can get you down to -1870 hp
now if you have good reps i know you can heal enough to survive the 3rd hit assuming you activate the reps before my 2nd set hits (even then if you have good reps you will out heal the dps long enough to find cover)

in the time it takes me to unleash 3 volleys of missiles (and my launcher only has 4 per round then i have to reload)
you can easily get behind cover kill me run me over hop our shoot me with your gun
do w/e

(and this is not even counting in your other tank (ect your shields or Armour that is not your main tank)
and don't give me crap about 3200+ being to much
(some guy got a militia tank to 10k hp)

tanks are a significant expenditure and should require at least a squad to take down (for high end tanks) I have never seen a tank that a proto forge gunner couldn't take down first try.

in the time it takes me to unleash 3 volleys of missiles (and my launcher only has 4 per round then i have to reload)
you can easily get behind cover kill me run me over hop our shoot me with your gun
do w/e

Which, if the tanker is ANY GOOD- they are doing.

Not to mention that good tankers have infantry screens that can repair the tank and hunt down AV.

Vehicles aren't UP, the bad drivers are.

The good drivers are SCARY.

6 per volley it is. 6x300 = 1800
Proficency and light weapon both adds up to 25%.
1800+550 = 2350
Now %110 damage to armor
2585
3 damage mods give about 25 % damage
3281

I love how people are unable to get facts straight and think he scared a FPS player.
I am no dumb little kid, and more educated than your whole family combined.
It is time to take beating i guess.

well said if more inflammatory then helpful, but the DS/ AV mechanic does need some work, tho not in the standard buff/nerf sense, although frankly I would be ok with a massive HP buff to them, and swarm to have to be dodged instead of out run.

Tanks as well need a revisiting, I would really like to see tanks get a massive HP buff, but then we would need to get webbers, or something to keep tanks from running from a coordinated AV attack, and OBs would need a damage buff. all of this is needed more on the high end then the low. I would say they are too effective against ground troops but I never really die to them(unless im being stupid) but rather their fellow ground support which is more a lack of team support problem.

LAVs are fine their single greatest weakness was the fact that you might pay an entire matchs isk for one worth a damn and then have to baby sit it in the red line when they were no longer practical, being able to recall vehicles fixes this, although lavs could use a PG CPU buff.

tanks are a significant expenditure and should require at least a squad to take down (for high end tanks) I have never seen a tank that a proto forge gunner couldn't take down first try.

Proto AV is a significant expenditure . Just the gun itself cost more than an entire decent AI fit . A full fit can cost more than a fitted militia TANK . We do this at extreme disadvantage against AI not to mention our target itself can easily kill us in a pure stand off ,so our survivability is lower compared to other roles. Even a good AV specialist can quickly find himself deep in the red.

Add to this we no longer get WP for damaging vechs and only get full WPs if we get the kill shot even if we did most of the work only to have it taken by some scrub in a free milita swarm suit . So we tend to end up lower wp than most roles baring the poor dropship pilots . If we don't kill the tank we don't get paid which brings us back to the cost .

So forgive us a little if we are actually a bit effective AT OUR FRICKKING JOB !!!!!!

Ok, we'll let you have a speed buff, if these changes are implemented into the way the Sawrm works.

- Smaller 'Lock-On' reticule, make it actually take a bit of skill to keep a lock on a target.
- No more 90 Degree turns.
- To lock-On to the target vehicle you must first aim down the sights.

Thats how the SL should work anyway, I shouldn't have to say it.

Ok, we'll let you have a speed buff, if these changes are implemented into the way the Sawrm works.

- Smaller 'Lock-On' reticule, make it actually take a bit of skill to keep a lock on a target.
- No more 90 Degree turns.
- To lock-On to the target vehicle you must first aim down the sights.

Thats how the SL should work anyway, I shouldn't have to say it.

Yeah, a lot of armor tankers secret fit is crap tank fit, my surya with all proto mod is crap, you are right, and proto swarms with 3 damage mod does not hit 3200+ without hardners. You make me laugh.

Supposedly the aim function is being removed in the next build.