DUST Search - [Request] Optional Skill Resets for Post Release Mercs

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

Is anyone inclined to having the option to pay a set amount to reset your skill tree? I could certainly see this being a helpful feature for new players coming on board after the official release on May 14th. What is a fair isk or aurum value?

-------New Insights with Feedback------

XANDER KAG wrote:

Maybe if you could limit how much sp the buyer had for example you have 3mil, you can reset that but the guy with 6mil can't. Or it will reduce the amount of sp you get back. Say guy A has 9 mil sp, if he uses the paid reset he will have only 3-4 mil.

Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:

No.
Breaks specialization and the value of SP.

Both good points.

Alright, maybe strictly thinking in terms of isk and aur payments is a poor idea. I did give this some more thought after your post.
How about this plan. In addition to a monetary payment, your new clone is penalized with a reduction of 4-8% of your total lifetime skill points. This may be equivalent to losing the training points and implants of one's poded capsuleer in EVE. It requires a long investment to regain what was lost--yet a majority of your abilities are not lost.

In regards to specialization changing, an argument I would make is that many modern console FPS players may come to Dust expecting an option for re-specs in similar fashion to what they might find in Mass Effect 3 or Borderlands. However, you are right that such systems, which allow you to regain all of your skill points, diminish the value of a skill system on the context of the Dust universe where "choices have consequences," as CCP has greatly conveyed. Still, a middle ground should be reached.

While this may feel like hand holding however its sliced, the key to CCP's ability to maintain Dust is player retention. Pushing away players with utterly unforgiving systems may net CCP a loss of paying customers in the long run.

I would tremendously appreciate feedback on these points.

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Jadek Menaheim Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.04.29 08:19:00 - [1] - Quote Is anyone inclined to having the option to pay a set amount to reset your skill tree? I could certainly see this being a helpful feature for new players coming on board after the official release on May 14th. What is a fair isk or aurum value?
Jadek Menaheim WarRavens 4	Posted - 2013.05.01 18:15:00 - [2] - Quote I am figuring this is not a one-time optional reset. A player can reset their SP as frequently as they like; call it a miracle of sleeper cybernetics. I feel 2.5 million isk or 500 aur is reasonable enough. It offers some leeway to switch out skill fits without too great of a wallet burden. It still offers an incentive to make your skill selections wisely.
Midas Fool On The Brink CRONOS. 19	Posted - 2013.05.01 18:37:00 - [3] - Quote Considering that the vast majority of the skill tree is changing with the Uprising build, I am under the impression that SP will have a mandatory reset. I'm excited to get all my points in Assualt Rifle Operation back.
XANDER KAG Red Star. EoN. 96	Posted - 2013.05.01 18:51:00 - [4] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: I am figuring this is not a one-time optional reset. A player can reset their SP as frequently as they like; call it a miracle of sleeper cybernetics. I feel 2.5 million isk or 500 aur is reasonable enough. It offers some leeway to switch out skill fits without too great of a wallet burden. It still offers an incentive to make your skill selections wisely. I don't think this would be a good idea. Maybe if you could limit how much sp the buyer had for example you have 3mil, you can reset that but the guy with 6mil can't. Or it will reduce the amount of sp you get back. Say guy A has 9 mil sp, if he uses the paid reset he will have only 3-4 mil. I say this because otherwise PC will be hell. Going against a corp with good tanks? Pay a little bit and all of a sudden you have the most powerful AV squad available, then pay a little more and boom back to pro infantry/tanks, etc, etc... It ruins the purpose of specialization otherwise.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 352	Posted - 2013.05.01 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote No. Breaks specialization and the value of SP. Bad OP. Bad thread.
Jadek Menaheim WarRavens Orion Empire 6	Posted - 2013.05.07 18:53:00 - [6] - Quote XANDER KAG wrote: Maybe if you could limit how much sp the buyer had for example you have 3mil, you can reset that but the guy with 6mil can't. Or it will reduce the amount of sp you get back. Say guy A has 9 mil sp, if he uses the paid reset he will have only 3-4 mil. Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: No. Breaks specialization and the value of SP. Both good points. Alright, maybe strictly thinking in terms of isk and aur payments is a poor idea. I did give this some more thought after your post. How about this plan. In addition to a monetary payment, your new clone is penalized with a reduction of 4-8% of your total lifetime skill points. This may be equivalent to losing the training points and implants of one's poded capsuleer in EVE. It requires a long investment to regain what was lost--yet a majority of your abilities are not lost. In regards to specialization changing, an argument I would make is that many modern console FPS players may come to Dust expecting an option for re-specs in similar fashion to what they might find in Mass Effect 3 or Borderlands. However, you are right that such systems, which allow you to regain all of your skill points, diminish the value of a skill system on the context of the Dust universe where "choices have consequences," as CCP has greatly conveyed. Still, a middle ground should be reached. While this may feel like hand holding however its sliced, the key to CCP's ability to maintain Dust is player retention. Pushing away players with utterly unforgiving systems may net CCP a loss of paying customers in the long run. I would tremendously appreciate feedback on these points.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 174	Posted - 2013.05.08 22:51:00 - [7] - Quote Skill reset option yes. This is a shooter in Eve Space not Eve as a shooter. This is not MMO playstyle. This is a different mindset and a different type of gamer. I think your suggestions are spot on. Paying for it and loosing some SP is ok. Or even a respec every 3mill SP or 5mill SP as a way to at least keep playing to work out your mistake later. Right now it is just a waste... ignore the idiot who preaches that no skills are a waste as he has lost his mind. For my role there are things that are required, things that can help, and things that do not apply. Wasting SP on a misguided move for "things that do not apply" should have a way of being corrected. This is not real life where you can't take back the time you have wasted (like writing oh so many posts) but a game. G. A. M. E. Not real, a form of entertainment. Entertainment lives and continues because it pleases people. It is not pleasing to get screwed on a stupid mistake. A mistake that was the cause of the game. A glitch, misprint, or just poorly explained descriptions. (respec on the 14th bump). However, changing your role should be an option as well. Allow you to test a few things out before commiting... and even then after committing for months or years to one role you should be able to mix it up again. Thus the need for a Respec option. Most people not on the forums will come in, play till the next new shooter comes out. Leave and then come back until the next new shooter comes out. If they want to change to keep playing by all means let us allow it to keep some freaking members playing this game. Because Dus514 will have new content coming out too, say an MAV or some new weapon. If the only way to get into it was to save up 5 mil sp just to try it they will never try it, and never come back to the game because they can never get anywhere in it. I realize that it is supposed to take 7 years to max out every skill. I don't want every skill. Just give me some respecing abilities to help me out a little. Jadek, good post.
Jadek Menaheim WarRavens 8	Posted - 2013.05.21 06:42:00 - [8] - Quote Thanks for the great input RedBleach LeSnaglant.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 231	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:16:00 - [9] - Quote Welcome :)
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 102	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:47:00 - [10] - Quote The reason for the skillsystem's existence is to enforce decisions that actually have a consequence. The consequence is created by the fact that specialization takes more and more time, the further you go down the tree. This creates a system where mercs have lasting identities and can play and behave completely differently from each other. Purchaseable or regular respecs allow to undo the decisions of months or even years and simply decide anew without any effort, thus defeating the purpose of the skillsystem in the first place, since decisions have no longer any long lasting effect.

LittleCuteWhale Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.21 22:02:00 - [11] - Quote "Choices have consequences" - CCP The scope in cloning is that it should have consequences, each time you get "cloned or die" there should be a loss of experience (skill points), in that case should the clone have rights and obligations. A respec system does not seems to be a bad idea considering that if there is enough technology to clone someone in "New Eden" , therefore there should be enough technology to change the behavior, memories and what not of the clone.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 102	Posted - 2013.05.21 22:10:00 - [12] - Quote LittleCuteWhale wrote: "Choices have consequences" - CCP The scope in cloning is that it should have consequences, each time you get "cloned or die" there should be a loss of experience (skill points), in that case should the clone have rights and obligations. A respec system does not seems to be a bad idea considering that if there is enough technology to clone someone in "New Eden" , therefore there should be enough technology to change the behavior, memories and what not of the clone. Loss in experience exist in EVE if you don't upgrade your clones. There are clones graded from alpha to omega which have an increasing capacity of SP and have to be repurchased after every death. Otherwise 5% of the difference between the current clone capacity (no clone means 0) and the total sp is substracted from the character, possibly "untraining" the most recent skills trained. Be thankfull mercs were spared from this mechanic. This is not a lore based decision but a gameplay decision. Also only the bodies are cloned. Conciousness is not copied or significantly altered during transfer and i am not aware of any lore writing that suggests that this is possible in new eden. Edit: I just realized how old the OP is. Did you wait all the time for proper input?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 478	Posted - 2013.05.21 22:16:00 - [13] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Is anyone inclined to having the option to pay a set amount to reset your skill tree? I could certainly see this being a helpful feature for new players coming on board after the official release on May 14th. What is a fair isk or aurum value? -------New Insights with Feedback------ XANDER KAG wrote: Maybe if you could limit how much sp the buyer had for example you have 3mil, you can reset that but the guy with 6mil can't. Or it will reduce the amount of sp you get back. Say guy A has 9 mil sp, if he uses the paid reset he will have only 3-4 mil. Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: No. Breaks specialization and the value of SP. Both good points. Alright, maybe strictly thinking in terms of isk and aur payments is a poor idea. I did give this some more thought after your post. How about this plan. In addition to a monetary payment, your new clone is penalized with a reduction of 4-8% of your total lifetime skill points. This may be equivalent to losing the training points and implants of one's poded capsuleer in EVE. It requires a long investment to regain what was lost--yet a majority of your abilities are not lost. In regards to specialization changing, an argument I would make is that many modern console FPS players may come to Dust expecting an option for re-specs in similar fashion to what they might find in Mass Effect 3 or Borderlands. However, you are right that such systems, which allow you to regain all of your skill points, diminish the value of a skill system on the context of the Dust universe where "choices have consequences," as CCP has greatly conveyed. Still, a middle ground should be reached. While this may feel like hand holding however its sliced, the key to CCP's ability to maintain Dust is player retention. Pushing away players with utterly unforgiving systems may net CCP a loss of paying customers in the long run. I would tremendously appreciate feedback on these points. I do not support an optional respec system. The reasons behind this are, as has been said, these choices should be serious choices for the player, and they should have thought behind them. In new Eden, there are consequences for decisions. Dust should be that way as well. Now, a wise person would say, "well, I'm not sure how these SPs work and what I should spec in, maybe I'll play some with the militia fits and check the forums/wikis, etc to see what might work for me" A less wise person says "Oooh, SP, let's use them" These people should be punished for not being wise.


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