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Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
764
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Posted - 2013.04.27 04:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:hooc roht wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:[quote=hooc roht]
FPS or MMO, the curve will remain the same. I think this is where we disagree. Look at minecraft, look at Dayz, look at EVE. Look at what Destiny is trying to be (I mention this because Bungie is a, if not the, original console FPS maker...what they are doing by making an MMO rather then a one shot fps is not some random choice for the fun of it. they see how the curve for community grown MMOs is very different then one shot FPSs) and finally look at the billions that World of Warcraft made for a long long long time. The MMO curve is a broad swath of community building. CCP's experience with EVE and their ever growing for 10 whole years community fits this curve. This is the target CCP is going after. Will they succeed? Who knows. I think I get where you are coming from. This is actually two different things. I was speaking about actually acquiring a new customer which is where the curve comes from. It does not take into account how a customer behaves once they have been acquired. The reason that many of these companies are moving to an MMO style is customer retention. There are only so many times you can jump into a match without it having any type of persisting effect. Many of these developers are drooling over what is called Customer Lifetime Value in marketing. The previous model was that a customer plunks down his/her $60 and maybe pays for a DLC or two. What they are now seeing is that someone who is involved with an MMO can end up spending hundreds over the course of their involvement. While I agree with the CLV part of it, the key is getting them to stick with the adoption phase. Without that, the long term value is shot.
Still haven't been able to explain EVE using your bell curve. Retribution has seen almost as many new players starting the game as it has seen vets continuing with the game (unless I am misinterpreting CCPs graphic representation players playing EVE Online) so, unless you apply your bell curve over something like 30 years it just doesn't describe CCP. EVE has seen a player increase every year since 2003. They are still on the way up.
But really, the problem with your curve is much simpler than that. It only ever applies to a fixed, one time offering of any product.
It does not apply to something as general as say, computers. Or cars.
It also does not apply to a game that is always being updated. Always changing. Always growing. Where most of the content is player created. Where there is no fixed and finite experience.
Customer retention may be part of the success of CCP's peculiar sandbox but it doesn't explain why their space game continues to bring in new customers while other MMO and MMO type games do not. So much. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
990
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Posted - 2013.04.27 04:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ask for their stuff? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2623
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Posted - 2013.04.27 04:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aighun wrote:It also does not apply to a game that is always being updated. Always changing. Always growing. Where most of the content is player created. Where there is no fixed and finite experience. This is the key flaw in applying that "product curve" to EVE (and DUST).
You're applying the logic of a PRODUCT to something that isn't a product.
CCP don't sell products. They provide services. EVE and DUST are run as services, not products, and any logic that applies to conventional game models is going to fail when applied to their games for the same reason it fails when applied to many other MMO games. They're services, and services follow different rules and purchase patterns. |
Wicked Glory
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
154
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Posted - 2013.04.27 04:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Won't happen unless the structure of the game is fundamentally changed. Which won't happen. This game was honestly destined to fail from the start. |
lowratehitman
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
500
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Posted - 2013.04.27 05:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Uprising IMO is not going to be any better for new players, this is a sp/meta game.
It is the same thing as people crying about proto gear in pub matches.
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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
153
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Posted - 2013.04.27 06:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
Wicked Glory wrote:Won't happen unless the structure of the game is fundamentally changed. Which won't happen. This game was honestly destined to fail from the start. Jesus Christ! Go play something else then! I've seen more optimism out of Sonic fans. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
164
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Posted - 2013.04.27 08:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gunmouse wrote:Quote:If this was War Z where each time you die, you loose everything on you (with no backup gear waiting, except a flashlight and a candy bar) idd be yelling "sh************t NOOOOOOOOOO" though :p What is this "War Z"? Some crappy ripoff of Day Z? In all seriousness, that game is bad, and you should feel bad for ever playing it.
It was quite fun at some point, if you like hardcore games where dying means loosing everything you had, it's ok its not for everyone except some of the old Ultima Online crowd, then the hackers ruined it.
Everyone thinks they are baddass hardcore until they set foot into War Z and then died over and over to maniacs with guns and notice they can't coop with loss.
I applaud that game for trying to get back some things we lost in out games of today, that would be Difficulty Nightmare i am talking about, witch used to be Normal back then.
Like i said, i understand you don't get it, but in Ultima Online, killing & looting someones entire House that took them a year+ to get together = so much tears i still run on some genuine tears dating back from 1997. |
Charlotte O'Dell
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
150
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Posted - 2013.04.27 08:31:00 -
[68] - Quote
Honestly, if at the end of every match, we all took a newberry in a starter corp who went 5/0 under our wing for 15 minutes, they probably wouldn't hate it so much. The other day me and my squad of bunnies took a totally random new player into our squad and just by having our guidance and us to watch his back, he was going 7/2, 10/1, and 14/4. The guy barely had one million SP, but just having the guidance and a few guardian engels helped him out a lot. This is the quickest fix to the newberry slaughterfest.
What a lot of us forget is how lost we were when we all started out. I had no idea what corporations were, what core skills were, or what OMS meant. Only when vets took time to help me out did I finally start going positive.
Tonight, all trolling aside, I want everyone who reads this to spend 15 minutes showing a guy in the Kinsho Swords what the sharpshooter skill does and why he doesn't need to invest in nova knives or dropships.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJgQ39jCNIU&feature=youtu.be |
Commander Tuna
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.04.27 09:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
People need to stop mentioning meta game. There is no meta game as of now. We will have to see where this "planetary conquest" goes. |
Bigglesworth McQueen
On The Brink CRONOS.
53
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Posted - 2013.04.27 09:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
In answer to the OP, social interaction.
Every game has flaws, some debilitating, but the thing that makes a game worth playing, for the most part, is the people you play it with. Recruit new players, teach them tactics, help them with their play style, ***** and moan about broken functions together.
Battlefield, Defiance, CoD. A few games that are intolerable to play solo, for me at least, but playing them with friends or 'contacts' makes them less so. This game is no different. |
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DS 10
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
200
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Posted - 2013.04.27 12:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
Bigglesworth McQueen wrote:In answer to the OP, social interaction.
Every game has flaws, some debilitating, but the thing that makes a game worth playing, for the most part, is the people you play it with. Recruit new players, teach them tactics, help them with their play style, ***** and moan about broken functions together.
Battlefield, Defiance, CoD. A few games that are intolerable to play solo, for me at least, but playing them with friends or 'contacts' makes them less so. This game is no different.
I would say this game is more squad based than any game I've ever played. Squads get more WP which leads to OBs which can have an extreme impact on the outcome of any given match |
SoLJae
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
370
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Posted - 2013.04.27 12:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
Hey DS.
Your video raised some interesting points and I applaud your effort to attract new players. However, I noticed that you give much thanks in your vid to Subdreddit for helping you learn the ropes as a noob, but I see now that you are currently with SyN.
Just wondering why you bailed, brother? |
DS 10
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
200
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Posted - 2013.04.27 13:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
SoLJae wrote:Hey DS.
Your video raised some interesting points and I applaud your effort to attract new players. However, I noticed that you give much thanks in your vid to Subdreddit for helping you learn the ropes as a noob, but I see now that you are currently with SyN.
Just wondering why you bailed, brother?
Ahhh, bailed is such a negative term. I prefer resigned. Lol.
I have goals in Dust that I would like to achieve, and I believe playing with SyNergy gives me a better chance to meet those goals. Also, I have a lot of buds in the EoN. alliance, especially in GIANT. I don't have any problems with Subdreddit, but they obviously think I'm a traitor. I even donated 10 mil ISK to Subdreddit before I left.
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Aran Abbas
Immobile Infantry
3
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Posted - 2013.04.27 14:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
EVE has empire space, a relatively safe area when new players can learn the ropes. Dust will have PvE eventually, but I don't think this will achieve what we want it to achieve because EVE has something else that's very important: tracking speeds.
The biggest and most powerful ships in EVE use weapons with slower tracking speeds that make it difficult (but not impossible) to target the new guy in his tiny frigate. Dust has no such thing, and that's what will see it bleed new players where EVE doesn't so much. |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
261
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Posted - 2013.04.27 14:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
DS 10 wrote:Ahhh, bailed is such a negative term. I prefer resigned. Lol.
I have goals in Dust that I would like to achieve, and I believe playing with SyNergy gives me a better chance to meet those goals. Also, I have a lot of buds in the EoN. alliance, especially in GIANT. I don't have any problems with Subdreddit, but they obviously think I'm a traitor. I even donated 10 mil ISK to Subdreddit before I left.
Just based on corp forum discussions since you left, I do not think that most people think you're a "traitor" or anything like that. |
DeadlyAztec11
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
95
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
ladwar wrote:K9 Wez wrote:Boobs...... Big boobs customizable boob sizes like saints row did. Next guys will want different crotch sizes... lol
( GÇó_>GÇó)Gäó |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
197
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
Shoot them in the back was the correct answer.
I don't know why there are more pages of this.
Eve didn't grow because it was welcoming. It grew because it stepped on new players nuts and that has always been continuous entertainment for older players. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
67
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Posted - 2013.04.27 17:20:00 -
[78] - Quote
Matchmaker... CCP, introduce difficulty setting set at 0 for new characters. Other levels would be in the range of 1- 5. It's just a draft, OK? This seting would determine how many SP/WP/ISK you get from your match. At level 0 it would be x0. At level 1 it would be x1. And so on. At level 0 all rounds fired at a player or by a player would be no damaging. At level 1 militia gear would be allowed only or do any damage. At level 2 more advanced equipement would be entered. At level 5 proto gear would be allowed.
Matchmaker would match players by this setting. If you have level 5 set you would never play with levels below. But you could play with militia gear. If you are bored...
At level 0 players are practically neutral or ...yellow and can't get or do any harm. Could use vehicles but should not be able to do any damage with them as well beside destroying vehicle and killing themselves. Should be able to suicide. Due to fall, grenades, laser overheating or mass driver round exploding to close or dying in crashed vehicles. Any vehicle touched by level 0 should pass through over players and do no harm to them... Would not provide them with free HAVs or DSs. Price tag is ok on militia vehicles... |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
67
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Posted - 2013.04.27 17:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Shoot them in the back was the correct answer.
I don't know why there are more pages of this.
Eve didn't grow because it was welcoming. It grew because it stepped on new players nuts and that has always been continuous entertainment for older players. Then explain why all new players start in highsec in EVE? I agree it is not totaly safe but offenders have high stakes at risk if they want to go big bada boom... Otherwise it can be an alt in rookie ship. Which is fair imho... |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
13
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Posted - 2013.04.27 19:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
You keep the new players, the way a good FPS does it. The people coming into this game OUTSIDE OF EVE ONLINE are FPS players. ( majority at least) You'll have EVE players talk about how this is mmo fps this, and mmo that. But you want to keep the new players? The core of DUST must be fps. And That's what worries me, after a year of seeing it flunder about. It's sink or swim time.
It doesn't have to be like halo. By odin, lets hope not. Nor COD. (spits on floor) But even those kiddie fps have the fundimentals down. I think.. I think they are trying now to push it that direction. and if dust can find itself and fast, it'll succeed. |
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Peksecutioner
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.04.27 19:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Wicked Glory wrote:Won't happen unless the structure of the game is fundamentally changed. Which won't happen. This game was honestly destined to fail from the start. Jesus Christ! Go play something else then! I've seen more optimism out of Sonic fans.
It's called being a realist... |
Peksecutioner
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.04.27 19:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
Nice video. It's great how you spend the entire video talking about how great you are at this game and how much noobs suck while pubstomping in a heavy suit that squadless noobs don't know how to kill yet. Very constructive stuff. Keep up the good work. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
13
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Posted - 2013.04.27 19:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
Peksecutioner wrote:Nice video. It's great how you spend the entire video talking about how great you are at this game and how much noobs suck while pubstomping in a heavy suit that squadless noobs don't know how to kill yet. Very constructive stuff. Keep up the good work.
my only complaint about the video was.. did he give praise to cod? |
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