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New Players are Being Turned Away -- What can we do?

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Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:05:00 - [31] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: Jikt Terlen wrote: I completely agree that this is a major issue, though as others have pointed out many times, this is still a beta. The fact that Uprising is such a huge change from where the game is now shows that many, many things are still in flux. It's still true that a lot of people will hear about Dust, download it, get dumped into a match against multiple squads of veterans, get utterly annihilated and uninstall, and that's unfortunate. Matchmaking would help this, the weapon lab and other out-of-combat practice features will help this, Planetary Conquest and incentives for veterans to spend less time in pub matches will help this. But the fact remains that CCP has a very long view for Dust, and the changes that will really, finally give new players a clear path into Dust may be a long way off still. That would work in a vacuum but this is the real world. Enough people moving on to the next FPS game and enough bad publicity and the slow death of this game will begin. In the FPS world, pretty much everyone has already heard of DUST so either they have tried it or will be trying it in the near future. That means that there is a small window to get people hooked on the game. Putting on Marketing Hat: Video games follow the same product adoption process that almost everything else does. Product Adoption Curve Innovators - The very first people to get into the game as soon as it went closed beta Early Adopters - All the closed beta vets Early Majority - This is the early Open Beta guys We are now moving into Late Majority now. People can debate all they want about whether the game is commercially released or not but that doesnt matter at all. What matters is what people believe. Once you get into the majority, people dont give a f*ck what its called, they are picking up the sticks and judging the game for what it is. If they have a bad impression, they are gone. You can cry BETA all you want. I think CCP is following more of an MMO approach to Dust then an FPS approach. Should also point out CoD and BF3/4 and Bungie's (makers of Halo by the way) Destiny are shifting their business models closer to an MMO model. Destiny basically is an MMO and CoD and BF3/4 are already using subscription models. The market has changed and is changing for FPSs. I thinking your analysis would have been great for say 2009...but that is not where the market is going. Don't get me wrong Dust can still fail...but it will be because it failed in this new market environment not the old FPS market of 5 years ago. FPS or MMO, the curve will remain the same. Yes, game makers are shifting the focus of their products because people are demanding more out of them but that really wasnt my point. Rarely do casual purchasers go back to a product that they have had a bad experience with. Sure, you have some people who are dedicated to the cause and are willing to forgive issues, but those are the vocal minority. DUST's opportunity is now and CCP has to capitalize on this. The reasons for that are as follows: 1 - Lack of competition - COD:BO2 has been out for a little while now and the initial push for gameplay has died down. BF3 is tinkering out as well. There is always Defiance but I have not heard of many people mass migrating to that and away from DUST. This will not be the case forever though. There is Destiny and numerous un-announced games that will be coming out now or within the next year. 2 - Buy in from gaming clans - There are a lot of non-title specific clans that have bought into DUST. The camaraderie of these clans which are now Corps are keeping people in place for now. However, a decision by one of these clans to evacuate the game would see others following which would be a massive amount of high tier player loss. Given that a lot of the casual FPS'ers tend to follow in the wake of these clans, they would eventually move to the next game that becomes popular with said clans. 3 - Its relatively new - The media hype over DUST is now entering its prime. This is the time when they can grab the most potential gamers while it is at the top of the adoption bell curve. IWS - Products always attract new consumers. Just ask Coca-Cola. However, I guarantee you that when you account for players that leave as well as compare it over the long term, the pattern will still show itself. This became real as soon as DUST became marketed to the mass public with Open Beta.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 159	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:12:00 - [32] - Quote Bling Blaine wrote: Easy fix would be a simple matchmaker Nuff said That "simple matchmaker" is a little more complicated to make then you or I probably think it is bud
DS 10 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 195	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:41:00 - [33] - Quote The reason I used Call of Duty and Battlefield as examples is because at the keynote, they made it clear they were trying to "liberate" CoD/BF players. It's a tough task, but with time and some key changes it is possible.
hooc roht Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:48:00 - [34] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: [quote=hooc roht] FPS or MMO, the curve will remain the same. I think this is where we disagree. Look at minecraft, look at Dayz, look at EVE. Look at what Destiny is trying to be (I mention this because Bungie is a, if not the, original console FPS maker...what they are doing by making an MMO rather then a one shot fps is not some random choice for the fun of it. they see how the curve for community grown MMOs is very different then one shot FPSs) and finally look at the billions that World of Warcraft made for a long long long time. The MMO curve is a broad swath of community building. CCP's experience with EVE and their ever growing for 10 whole years community fits this curve. This is the target CCP is going after. Will they succeed? Who knows.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.04.26 21:58:00 - [35] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: [quote=hooc roht] FPS or MMO, the curve will remain the same. I think this is where we disagree. Look at minecraft, look at Dayz, look at EVE. Look at what Destiny is trying to be (I mention this because Bungie is a, if not the, original console FPS maker...what they are doing by making an MMO rather then a one shot fps is not some random choice for the fun of it. they see how the curve for community grown MMOs is very different then one shot FPSs) and finally look at the billions that World of Warcraft made for a long long long time. The MMO curve is a broad swath of community building. CCP's experience with EVE and their ever growing for 10 whole years community fits this curve. This is the target CCP is going after. Will they succeed? Who knows. I think I get where you are coming from. This is actually two different things. I was speaking about actually acquiring a new customer which is where the curve comes from. It does not take into account how a customer behaves once they have been acquired. The reason that many of these companies are moving to an MMO style is customer retention. There are only so many times you can jump into a match without it having any type of persisting effect. Many of these developers are drooling over what is called Customer Lifetime Value in marketing. The previous model was that a customer plunks down his/her $60 and maybe pays for a DLC or two. What they are now seeing is that someone who is involved with an MMO can end up spending hundreds over the course of their involvement. While I agree with the CLV part of it, the key is getting them to stick with the adoption phase. Without that, the long term value is shot.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 608	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:01:00 - [36] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Bling Blaine wrote: Easy fix would be a simple matchmaker Nuff said That "simple matchmaker" is a little more complicated to make then you or I probably think it is bud Especially considering how complicated Dust is compared to say, Halo. Bungie created a truly amazing matchmaking system over the course of their franchise, but the players in a given Halo match are all on relatively equal footing, which makes it easy for the game to determine who the better players are. Win often against better players and you move up in the system's rankings (which are crucially hidden from the player), lose against total n00bs and you drop like a stone. The Dust metagame and deep RPG elements would completely break such a system. CCP has their work cut out for them.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 59	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:08:00 - [37] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: Marston VC wrote: Bling Blaine wrote: Easy fix would be a simple matchmaker Nuff said That "simple matchmaker" is a little more complicated to make then you or I probably think it is bud Especially considering how complicated Dust is compared to say, Halo. Bungie created a truly amazing matchmaking system over the course of their franchise, but the players in a given Halo match are all on relatively equal footing, which makes it easy for the game to determine who the better players are. Win often against better players and you move up in the system's rankings (which are crucially hidden from the player), lose against total n00bs and you drop like a stone. The Dust metagame and deep RPG elements would completely break such a system. CCP has their work cut out for them. Which is why they need PVE. There needs to be something for everyone. If you arent that great at the gun-game side, you can still have fun playing in other ways.
undeadsoldier90 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 305	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:10:00 - [38] - Quote The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1541	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:14:00 - [39] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden. welcome to new eden where you come and then die
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 67	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:17:00 - [40] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden. Can you please point out the 'mmo' part of dust? All i can see is a mediocre lobby shooter.

DS 10 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 195	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:18:00 - [41] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden. The problem is new players get overwhelmed by information and lack of guidance. No matter who you are, you most likely had someone help you along the way. Dust University is great, but you only really know about them if you do solid research. It shouldn't be like that, IMO. With the game as deep as it is, having true training grounds would help the game immensely.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 215	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:20:00 - [42] - Quote DS 10 wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden. The problem is new players get overwhelmed by information and lack of guidance. No matter who you are, you most likely had someone help you along the way. Dust University is great, but you only really know about them if you do solid research. It shouldn't be like that, IMO. With the game as deep as it is, having true training grounds would help the game immensely. And when starting EVE, an email is sent telling you about training corps like EVE U.
DS 10 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 195	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:23:00 - [43] - Quote slypie11 wrote: DS 10 wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden. The problem is new players get overwhelmed by information and lack of guidance. No matter who you are, you most likely had someone help you along the way. Dust University is great, but you only really know about them if you do solid research. It shouldn't be like that, IMO. With the game as deep as it is, having true training grounds would help the game immensely. And when starting EVE, an email is sent telling you about training corps like EVE U. I didn't know that. I wonder how difficult it would be to add an automated message to your Dust character when you first start telling you about Dust University.
Gunmouse Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 45	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:25:00 - [44] - Quote Quote: If this was War Z where each time you die, you loose everything on you (with no backup gear waiting, except a flashlight and a candy bar) idd be yelling "sh************t NOOOOOOOOOO" though :p What is this "War Z"? Some crappy ripoff of Day Z? In all seriousness, that game is bad, and you should feel bad for ever playing it.
hooc roht Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:25:00 - [45] - Quote You know one thing that has not been mentioned.... Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can.
XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1541	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:33:00 - [46] - Quote hooc roht wrote: You know one thing that has not been mentioned.... Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can. not going to answer that
Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 102	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:35:00 - [47] - Quote hooc roht wrote: You know one thing that has not been mentioned.... Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can. That was said on the video... you know the one on the OP.
DS 10 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 195	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:37:00 - [48] - Quote Rupture Reaperson wrote: hooc roht wrote: You know one thing that has not been mentioned.... Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can. That was said on the video... you know the one on the OP. Aw, you watched it. Hahah. But yes, I did say it in the video. And it's in the title of the thread. "What can we do?"
undeadsoldier90 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 305	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:39:00 - [49] - Quote As long as I have been playing this game ( since day 1) I have seen crazy changes.... with the release of open beta the influx of new people was staggering. The closed beta crowd was used to only playing the closed beta crowd, it culled the weak and forged a lot of the elite players you see today. Imagine those games where you get pub stomped..... those were every game, the same people imperfects, PFBHZ, STB.... just to name a few. at the time you played a higher caliber of players or you didnt play. So us vets already have that exp on top of our SP and being a part of super corps. So we will always be ahead, new players will always get stomped, and us vets will continue smashing eachother with all manner of weaponry. As I said before new players need to keep playing. The more you play the better you will become untill one day you are pub stomping and laughing maniacaly as you assert your dominance over the noobs. Play the game Skill into everything and I mean everything Join a corp Ask questions on forums Read the skills and ask pro's for advice... worst they will do is say HTFU GG GOML. bacon!
hooc roht Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2013.04.26 22:46:00 - [50] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: hooc roht wrote: You know one thing that has not been mentioned.... Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can. not going to answer that "OMG OMG OMG you have played this game 8 months longer then me. YOU ARE A GOD FOREVER!!!" Seriously 6 months to a year from now with all the changes, possible resets, bonuses like 3x SP weeks and human endurance and slow pace of end game (gotta get my level 5 in hacking) do you honestly think you will remain the elite? Do you think anyone will remember who the imperfects (or insert any of the top 5 corps here) were? Do you think more then 5% of those on top now will still be there? You might be better off scouting talent among the larger pool of noobs then sticking with your tight leet geared club.

DigiOps DUST University Ivy League 146	Posted - 2013.04.26 23:47:00 - [51] - Quote K9 Wez wrote: Boobs...... Big boobs This is an idea I can get behind. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say training videos. There are a lot of vids up on YouTube, but having a squad full of players recording gameplay at the same time to get to see how squad behavior should work and see everything from every angle we can give them might be helpful. I've been recording everything so far for my own records, but I think it'd be neat to give a split screen view of an entire squad in action from every squad member's eyes simultaneously.
Mithridates VI Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 981	Posted - 2013.04.26 23:49:00 - [52] - Quote DS 10 wrote: I didn't know that. I wonder how difficult it would be to add an automated message to your Dust character when you first start telling you about Dust University. It would be absolutely trivial, though they'd have to include some other training corps as well so as not to show favouritism.
Rupture Reaperson Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 102	Posted - 2013.04.26 23:49:00 - [53] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Rupture Reaperson wrote: hooc roht wrote: You know one thing that has not been mentioned.... Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can. That was said on the video... you know the one on the OP. Aw, you watched it. Hahah. But yes, I did say it in the video. And it's in the title of the thread. "What can we do?" Course I do, Im subbed to you and hitman, lurking in dem comment boxes yo!
DigiOps DUST University Ivy League 146	Posted - 2013.04.26 23:52:00 - [54] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: DS 10 wrote: I didn't know that. I wonder how difficult it would be to add an automated message to your Dust character when you first start telling you about Dust University. It would be absolutely trivial, though they'd have to include some other training corps as well so as not to show favouritism. Considering most people jumping in won't read anything that pops up, yeah, it'd be pretty pointless.
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation 362	Posted - 2013.04.26 23:56:00 - [55] - Quote Join a corp, fight for domination. You'll enjoy the game and pay no cent.
Bling Blaine FrontLine-Coalition 5	Posted - 2013.04.27 00:25:00 - [56] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Bling Blaine wrote: Easy fix would be a simple matchmaker Nuff said That "simple matchmaker" is a little more complicated to make then you or I probably think it is bud You know what is more complicated than a "simple matchmaker"? CCP trying to figure out who to lay off, as the model player base left because a matchmaking system was "too complex" to implement. The matchmaking system has been in "learn" mode for a hell of a long time. Meaning there is a system that they haven't quite figured out yet. Obviously the matchmaking is further down there roadmap than should be. With all the brilliant engineers at CCP they couldn't figure out a matchmaking system? Lol don't think so bud. Simple fix- anyone with under say 2 mill sp joins a different que. Wow too complex!!!
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Orion Empire 363	Posted - 2013.04.27 01:03:00 - [57] - Quote Nice Troll. Well done, simple, complete and no real response is necessary. The fact that May 6th is nearly here and you ignore that fact as did the majority of your commenters speaks volumes about what you don't either know or want to admit as it lowers the Troll rating. There is a new Battle Finder on the way yet you say nothing about it. New Berries that only play Ambush are Meat. Dead Meat. There are many YouTube videos teaching New Berries about the game. Just as there are many posts in the Training Grounds just for New Berries. Not that you seem very aware of those either.
Nstomper Disqualified 234	Posted - 2013.04.27 01:25:00 - [58] - Quote Just have multiple tutorial videos explaining the new people in detail every aspect of the game and how you improve in this game
howard sanchez Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 508	Posted - 2013.04.27 02:10:00 - [59] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Experienced players who want new players to stay could simply be really nice to new players. Squad up...talk to the noobs in chat...let em in your corporations...or at least your alt corporations...give em access to your eve pilots and orbital strikes....i am sure there are a hundred other things one can do to build community I have not thought of. Fundamentally CCP is a big corporation. They can't do this stuff...only the players can. not going to answer that[/quote] "OMG OMG OMG you have played this game 8 months longer then me. YOU ARE A GOD FOREVER!!!" Seriously 6 months to a year from now with all the changes, possible resets, bonuses like 3x SP weeks and human endurance and slow pace of end game (gotta get my level 5 in hacking) do you honestly think you will remain the elite? Do you think anyone will remember who the imperfects (or insert any of the top 5 corps here) were? Do you think more then 5% of those on top now will still be there? [/quote] Uh, let me introduce you to Chribba
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2622	Posted - 2013.04.27 02:52:00 - [60] - Quote Drud Green wrote: undeadsoldier90 wrote: The fact of the matter is new players need to continue playing. No one became a bad ass at any MMO on their first run. You will get stomped, you will be spawn camped, tanks will be spammed on a regular basis, and someday maybe in a week maybe in a few months you will get better. You will grab proto gear, you will melt them with your weapons, and you will look back and say " it wasnt as hard as it seemed." Time will weed out the weak and unworthy. Time will seperate the men from the boys. So give the game your time and it will return it ten fold. Also join an ESTABLISHED corp, ask questions, use the forums. No one should have to quite the game use your brain, read the skills, use everything untill you find your fit. The people who leave this game because they get pub stomped dont belong here.... So buck up and welcome to new eden. Can you please point out the 'mmo' part of dust? All i can see is a mediocre lobby shooter. Coming SOONGäó. But actually soon - Planetary Conquest is the first step on the road.



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