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Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1046
   |
Posted - 2013.04.29 18:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:The whole thread is pointless because this build is dead
That was acknowledged way back in the OP and accounted for but, sure, given what we know about the skills in the next build let's still wait to talk about them. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
284
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 19:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Passive skills make no sense, and if you're trying to even stuff out, like limit gear to certain game modes, passive skills make that impossible. This isn't true for every player, but there are a number who like to play against other players on equal terms, and rely more on actual skill to win instead of the fake stuff. Passive skills prevent this.
Making it so that people can fit what they want on a weapon, like a longer barrel for increased accuracy, allow players to make choices. You can have people who continue to do what they do now, and you can have people who like to do other things.
The other benefit to removing the passive skills is the opportunity to add more depth and possible gear choices to the game. Allowing players to make more choices, and putting positives and negatives on them is a good thing, not a bad one. For instance, the longer barrel keeps your accuracy high, but it lowers how fast you can move while you ADS. You can have skills that unlock carrying double ammo, but those skills will add more weight, like armor plates, so that will slow you down.
It seems so odd that some guys want things like more depth and choice, but refuse to get rid of passive skills. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
408
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 20:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
If attention to lore can upset your immersion in gameplay, I think you need to stop playing an FPS.
Have you seen the description for the nanohives? That travesty should be plain offensive to anyone with a basic grasp of physics.But if I thought about that every time I threw one down, I'd never finish a match. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1054
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 20:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:If attention to lore can upset your immersion in gameplay, I think you need to stop playing an FPS.
Have you seen the description for the nanohives? That travesty should be plain offensive to anyone with a basic grasp of physics.But if I thought about that every time I threw one down, I'd never finish a match.
Immersion is entirely supported by lore. CCP keep using the word "verisimilitude" but they need to commit to it further, IMO.
It's not about scientifically testable explanations, it's about doing enough to maintain suspension of disbelief. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
League of Infamy
900
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 05:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:
I can skill into making my militia AR faster, better, stronger. It still costs the same as the militia AR of Joe Newberry so when I am in a battle with Joe, our opportunity for reward is equal (actually, the situation favours me because my identical gun does more damage) but his risk is greater. This doesn't sit well with me. Similarly, I can skill into being "better at shields" or "better at armour" and from an RP perspective, I don't know what the kitten that even means, while from a gameplay balance perspective we've got the same issue that both Mr Newberry and I paid the same amount for our gear... but mine is better.
This section highlights the flaw in your presentation. Dismissing the investment of SP (which in literal terms is an investment of player time, and frequently money as well if boosters are used) is ignoring a key aspect of the Risk/Reward dynamic. There are many factors to the interaction between managing risk and gaining reward. Planning a good fit, choosing effective tactics, having a solid gun game, choosing what suit/fit to deploy in, running with a good squad (both players and composition). Choosing match types which compliment your intended playstyle (and that of your squad). Selecting a skill build to properly support and develop your fittings and role et al.
Investing your SP is as valuable as investing your ISK and it should be. When you've skilled up you have an advantage over "Joe" sure, one you've earned at the same time (and in the same way) you earned the ISK to deploy in anything other than a starter fit. The real contrast however is not between someone brand new and someone who isn't, there will always be disparity there, hence that comparison isn't meaningful. What would be meaningful is comparing two players who are of equal advancement but differing SP builds. Now, even with the same fitting, they are more specialized and unique. Perhaps one has leveled mobility skills and shield regen rate. Maybe the other has leveled armor and flux nades.
Or dps and accuracy, or even profile dampening and melee. The list goes on providing a plethora of diverse options and factors which when layered with the customization of fittings has a multiplicative effect on game diversity, player choice, and role specialization. Does does not need to 'flatten' out those player choices and reduce diversity. Risk vs Reward is key to Dust no question there, but it is a sub-facet of the heart of D514, that being the ability for players to make meaningful choices. Taking those choices out of players hands in favor of a more simplistic and constrained method is 180 degrees the wrong direction.
Quote:
I would greatly prefer that my mercenary's personal capabilities governed things like base speed (modified by gear weight), reload speed (modified by reload complexity), accuracy (ability to point weapon at the reticle, rather than dispersion of bullets around the reticle)... while gear and modifications to gear (all putting a dent in my wallet and so increasing my risk) governed things like clip size, weapon range, weapon damage, shield/armour effectiveness.
Discuss. We're running out of time to change it if we're not going the right way at present.
Here's a great place for a TL;DR version.
Both gear and skills should do both in all cases this increases player choice, game diversity, and role specialization all of which are vital to the longevity of D514.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
410
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If attention to lore can upset your immersion in gameplay, I think you need to stop playing an FPS.
Have you seen the description for the nanohives? That travesty should be plain offensive to anyone with a basic grasp of physics.But if I thought about that every time I threw one down, I'd never finish a match. Immersion is entirely supported by lore. CCP keep using the word "verisimilitude" but they need to commit to it further, IMO. It's not about scientifically testable explanations, it's about doing enough to maintain suspension of disbelief.
Like I said: you need to stop playing an FPS. Sacrificing gameplay for lore-friendliness is a terrible decision for a game at risk of not appealing to a wider audience. |
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