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Mithridates VI
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
972
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Posted - 2013.04.26 05:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Coming into Uprising we're going to see a massive change in the game's approach to skill progression.
After the reset on May 6th I don't know how many opportunities there are going to be to change the core skill progression, I feel like at this stage of the game it may be one of the last chances we get to implement this correctly and build a foundation to work upwards and outwards from.
Uprising is almost upon us so it may be that it's too late for this feedback but I'm going to offer it anyway.
I'm a big fan of the risk/reward dynamic which is present in New Eden. I feel that if my opportunity to benefit from a situation increases, so too should what I gamble or put on the line to be eligible for that reward. The current implementation of the skill system (with the existence of passive skills which directly increase hitpoints and damage) seems to me to conflict with this philosophy. I have issues with this system from a couple of different angles.
The first of these is that I believe that lore tends to inform good gameplay mechanics. As a matter of personal preference I take exception to the story of a game being slave to game mechanics where lore-friendly alternatives exist (and are often preferable to me). At a certain point, suspension of disbelief is shattered and the immersion (a key element of the game to me) is ruined.
I believe that in a game where player skill can be augmented by both gear and character skillpoints, that these two types of modifier should govern separate domains. My understanding of the skill progression system is that it's an abstract representation of my mercenary's knowledge and abilities. Logically, my mercenary's ability affects his performance in using gear, the effectiveness of which varies from item to item.
I don't understand the system by which my mercenary's knowledge of firearms increases the maximum range the firearm can reach and would prefer for this to be handled by purchasable gear. I believe that sharpshooter will no longer increase range but have the same issue with it reducing dispersion, unless explicitly told that skilling into sharpshooter actually increases my accuracy, given the perfectly reasonable alternative of making upgrades for the gear with the same effect.
Moving into the second angle from which I disagree with the current system: shifting responsibility for the direct increase of weapon effectiveness into gear rather than into skills better fits the risk/reward philosophy in my opinion.
I can skill into making my militia AR faster, better, stronger. It still costs the same as the militia AR of Joe Newberry so when I am in a battle with Joe, our opportunity for reward is equal (actually, the situation favours me because my identical gun does more damage) but his risk is greater. This doesn't sit well with me. Similarly, I can skill into being "better at shields" or "better at armour" and from an RP perspective, I don't know what the kitten that even means, while from a gameplay balance perspective we've got the same issue that both Mr Newberry and I paid the same amount for our gear... but mine is better.
I would greatly prefer that my mercenary's personal capabilities governed things like base speed (modified by gear weight), reload speed (modified by reload complexity), accuracy (ability to point weapon at the reticle, rather than dispersion of bullets around the reticle)... while gear and modifications to gear (all putting a dent in my wallet and so increasing my risk) governed things like clip size, weapon range, weapon damage, shield/armour effectiveness.
Discuss. We're running out of time to change it if we're not going the right way at present. |
Mithridates VI
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
972
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 05:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:Pre-emptive: Just because something is done a certain way in EVE does not mean it's the right way to do things. It's still the EVE universe so there has to be a degree of semblance. Also, what you're suggesting almost eliminates the purpose of learning new skills in the first place. The game rewards us for specializing into a specific role that's most comfortable with personal play style. If you take that away, it's nothing but another generic FPS.
You can reward someone for specialising into AR without making the AR inexplicably shoot more damaging bullets by improving the parts of AR operation which are dependent on the operator. |
Mithridates VI
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
974
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 05:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You guys are going to be in for a rude awakening on the 6th then. Along with skills that add passive bonuses, dropsuits are going to have them too.
Dropsuits are gear which I have, IMO quite clearly, explained I am perfectly happy with directly increasing survivability.
As far as I can tell, Uprising has fewer skills such as those I'm criticising... but even if not, it would hardly be a "rude awakening". I think you are misusing the idiom. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1020
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Posted - 2013.04.28 05:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Black Jackal wrote:^^ I don't understand why everyone wants yet another generic shooter.
IMO, moving away from gameplay mechanics which are poorly explained in lore is moving away from being a generic shooter. Supporting game immersion is where an MMOFPS should shine.
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Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1038
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Posted - 2013.04.28 23:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:We have skills directly uploaded into our brains, thus passive skilling.
It's in the lore, mate.
Is this in response to me?
I understand and don't care where the skills come from, skill in your brain don't make your bullets travel further.
EDIT: Did you just read the subject and respond to that? This isn't a criticism of passive skills as a concept it's a criticism of the execution of passive skills in DUST. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1046
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Posted - 2013.04.29 08:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Cosgar wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:Pre-emptive: Just because something is done a certain way in EVE does not mean it's the right way to do things. It's still the EVE universe so there has to be a degree of semblance. Also, what you're suggesting almost eliminates the purpose of learning new skills in the first place. The game rewards us for specializing into a specific role that's most comfortable with personal play style. If you take that away, it's nothing but another generic FPS. What he said. What is the point of skilling up if it does nothing for you?
Who is suggesting that it does nothing? |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1046
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 18:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:The whole thread is pointless because this build is dead
That was acknowledged way back in the OP and accounted for but, sure, given what we know about the skills in the next build let's still wait to talk about them. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1054
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Posted - 2013.04.29 20:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:If attention to lore can upset your immersion in gameplay, I think you need to stop playing an FPS.
Have you seen the description for the nanohives? That travesty should be plain offensive to anyone with a basic grasp of physics.But if I thought about that every time I threw one down, I'd never finish a match.
Immersion is entirely supported by lore. CCP keep using the word "verisimilitude" but they need to commit to it further, IMO.
It's not about scientifically testable explanations, it's about doing enough to maintain suspension of disbelief. |
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