DUST Search - Logibro and assault hitbox comparison, need input.

ReGnUM Public Relations wrote:

Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:

KingBabar wrote:

So to conclude:

Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it.

Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi....

Some more info:

- Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example:

I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates!

Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints.

That's the problem if you don't put any armor plate.

Let's take ALL logi suits. Basic HPs are : 125/150 shield/armor

With the fit that you mentionned, you have 353/187 HP (mechanic/shield control lvl5) for around 100,000 ISK. With a hard DPS in front of this, you're just loosing money. This is not a viable solution for me.

With the assaut B-serie, you have around 300 shield HP without any extender and shield control lvl5. This is the big difference.

Logi suits are half/half shield/armor. You can't tank in a way or the other. You just choose to be the truck with all the equipment, or be a little bit faster with less equipment.

I am sorry is 4 high and 4 low not go enough. Maybe you should be looking at ones playstyle before asking for a suit buff.

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 527	Posted - 2013.04.18 09:45:00 - [1] - Quote Some people have claimed that the Logibro hitbox is as big as a heavy's, and as a result they're crap in combat and that the assault suit is way better in this regard. I can see from the stats that the logi suits can be combat fitted and be very good on paper, this won't help however if the hitbox is that much bigger. We have at least two Logis in Seraphim with 4+ kdr running as support/combat logis, so it should be possible to both fight and support with a reasonable degree of success "doing both jobs" at the same time. So, have anyone tried both suits enough to feel the hitbox difference and tell me how bad it really is? And I'm only interested in this paticular difference, HP and other stuff is not meant to be discussed here. Are there any numerical stats on this anywhere?
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 481	Posted - 2013.04.18 10:38:00 - [2] - Quote I don't think it's as big as the heavy but I'm sure it's slightly bigger than the assault. I also think it has slightly lower strafe speed, but I'm not entirely sure on that.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2555	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:14:00 - [3] - Quote Logi strafe speed is definitely slower (not by a huge margin, but larger than Scout to Assault). I think they also have less stamina, which means less options to use speed to reduce hits, even if you can make yourself faster. As for hitbox, it's definitely similar in size to the Assault - Assaults are slightly smaller, but it's not a large difference.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 527	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:32:00 - [4] - Quote First off, I always assumed that: Strafe speed = move speed. Is this not so? The Logi suits are also the only suits to get a move and running speed bonus at each tier, so if move speed and strafe speed are the same, it might vary a lot from suit to suit. In any case, does anyone have any data on the various hitbox sizes? Or input in the difference in a gunfight having a logi vs an assault suit fitted?
J Lav Lost-Legion Orion Empire 53	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:35:00 - [5] - Quote I don't have any hard evidence, and things have changed recently where I feel my logi suit is significantly faster than it was. My subjective opinion is that when I'm shooting at a logi suit, they crumple like paper. When I try to rep an assault suit in a clump of guys, it'll lock onto a logi suit before it will lock onto an assault 90% of the time. So my assumption is that there's a larger hitbox.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2557	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:38:00 - [6] - Quote KingBabar wrote: First off, I always assumed that: Strafe speed = move speed. Is this not so? The Logi suits are also the only suits to get a move and running speed bonus at each tier, so if move speed and strafe speed are the same, it might vary a lot from suit to suit. Nope. Scouts have much lower strafe speed than move speed. Assaults have less of a speed loss when strafing. Logis have lower strafe speed. Even the Logis with faster movement speed have low strafe speed. Quote: In any case, does anyone have any data on the various hitbox sizes? Or input in the difference in a gunfight having a logi vs an assault suit fitted? If there's a difference in hitbox size - and I'm not sure there is - between Assault and Logi, it's not a large difference.
Mr Gloo Gloo What The French CRONOS. 53	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:41:00 - [7] - Quote The "straf speed", so basic mouvement speed, or "sprint speed" must include that HP logi's suit are the same in STD, ADV and PRO !!! The only things that change are the number of modules, CPU/PG capacity, and equipment slots. So, on a vk0 or vk1, you need to boost your HP. Complex armor plate give a 10% penalty on mouvements. I usely put 2 complex armor plate on PRO suits. So this need to be take under consideration. I don't have numbers for you king, but even with a skinweave assaut, I take less damages than with my logi proto suit. So yes, I guess logi suit's hitbox are bigger, and easier to hit than assaut/scout suits...
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 224	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:41:00 - [8] - Quote There are a few logi's out there that use their logis for mainly combat purposes. When they are in their vk.1 suits, they are speedy little monsters of destruction. They are classed as medium frames, soooo... I'm thinking the vk.1 logi is better on paper AND in practice than all the proto assault suits.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2557	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:41:00 - [9] - Quote J Lav wrote: I don't have any hard evidence, and things have changed recently where I feel my logi suit is significantly faster than it was. My subjective opinion is that when I'm shooting at a logi suit, they crumple like paper. When I try to rep an assault suit in a clump of guys, it'll lock onto a logi suit before it will lock onto an assault 90% of the time. So my assumption is that there's a larger hitbox. The lock-on box for the Repair Tool is only a small portion of the actual hitbox. Logis have a larger hitbox for this lock than Assaults. Want to test this theory, shoot someone in the legs, then try locking on with a Repair tool aimed at someone's legs. One works, the other doesn't. I'm sure you can figure out which is which. Assault suits need you to be aiming upper body, Logis let you lock on further down the body. It's possible the "torso" section vs. "legs" of the hitboxes on the two suits are different, but the total hitbox size is pretty close to identical.
achiever pigs with fricken lazer beams 29	Posted - 2013.04.18 11:45:00 - [10] - Quote yes there a hit box difference vs Assault and Logi i run both but i think it more too do with the Strafe speed then hit box but yes i think there a bigger hit box on the logi

KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 527	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:09:00 - [11] - Quote So to conclude: Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it. Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi.... Some more info: - Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example: I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates! Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints.
Mr Gloo Gloo What The French CRONOS. 53	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:25:00 - [12] - Quote KingBabar wrote: So to conclude: Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it. Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi.... Some more info: - Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example: I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates! Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints. That's the problem if you don't put any armor plate. Let's take ALL logi suits. Basic HPs are : 125/150 shield/armor With the fit that you mentionned, you have 353/187 HP (mechanic/shield control lvl5) for around 100,000 ISK. With a hard DPS in front of this, you're just loosing money. This is not a viable solution for me. With the assaut B-serie, you have around 300 shield HP without any extender and shield control lvl5. This is the big difference. Logi suits are half/half shield/armor. You can't tank in a way or the other. You just choose to be the truck with all the equipment, or be a little bit faster with less equipment.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:27:00 - [13] - Quote KingBabar wrote: So to conclude: Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it. Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi.... Some more info: - Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example: I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates! Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints. Hitboxes are definitely bigger in logi's and the pack on the back is single biggest reason a logi will die just he makes cover. Is it large enough to be breaking no i dont think so after a logi isn't meant to be a frontline soldier so people who are upset that it doesnt function well that way really don't have a leg to stand on. Also there is an absolute difference between hitboxes b/w male and female suit types across the board The difference is most compelling in the male vs female logis where the female frame is closer to that of a male assault and these are often the individuals who play offensive combat logi and are successful at it. If one were to take identical characters one male logi and one female logi that difference becomes immediately noticeable in game as you play with one and then the other. This on the other hand one can argue is unfair in that if this wan't known to somebody then they are stuck in their decision to have a male frame instead of a female one. ITs also unfair to those who simply want a male frame as their avatar that they are at a disadvantage to female frames and to heavies since they have no difference in framing.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2558	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:28:00 - [14] - Quote KingBabar wrote: So to conclude: Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it. Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi.... Some more info: - Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example: I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates! Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints. The viability of the suit in Logi vs. Assault depends heavily on the weapons both players use. If you're running SMG or MD on the Logi suit, those weapons are good at countering the strafing advantage of the Assault (or a Scout). Shotguns aren't bad if you manage them well, but you're unable to adapt to anything but extreme close quarters. Shotgun Assaults can bring a Sidearm to counter this vulnerability. AR vs. AR, if you're both equally good at keeping aim on target, the Assault's evasion will probably give it a slight edge. Laser vs. Laser, same rules apply, although the current Assault suits are more shield-heavy while Logis are better at stacking armour - if you get an armour-tanked Logi vs. a shield-tanked Assault, the Logi will win a Laser duel unless the Assault has a Viziam. And the Assault would win a Mass Driver duel in that same situation.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 104	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:34:00 - [15] - Quote logi suits are the suits that scale best into proto levels. logis start out very bad at milita and standard meta leveland end good in proto levels because you get enough slots to lessen the downsides a bit. there are several downsides: -strafe speed which is below assault but not that much faster then heavy strafe speed -hitbox is bigger than assault -low hp (before you reach proto level)
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2771	Posted - 2013.04.18 12:39:00 - [16] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: I don't think it's as big as the heavy but I'm sure it's slightly bigger than the assault. I also think it has slightly lower strafe speed, but I'm not entirely sure on that. it has slower strafe as someone who was originally assault then swapped to logi due to boredom i can tell u i feel a BIG difference in strafe speed in combat i can also tell u its easier or at least feels alot easier to hit logis than assaults dont understand tho...both medium frame suits so shouldnt hav a bigger hitbox right? maybe ccp can answer.
ReGnUM Public Relations Imperfects Public Relations 135	Posted - 2013.04.18 13:15:00 - [17] - Quote Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: KingBabar wrote: So to conclude: Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it. Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi.... Some more info: - Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example: I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates! Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints. That's the problem if you don't put any armor plate. Let's take ALL logi suits. Basic HPs are : 125/150 shield/armor With the fit that you mentionned, you have 353/187 HP (mechanic/shield control lvl5) for around 100,000 ISK. With a hard DPS in front of this, you're just loosing money. This is not a viable solution for me. With the assaut B-serie, you have around 300 shield HP without any extender and shield control lvl5. This is the big difference. Logi suits are half/half shield/armor. You can't tank in a way or the other. You just choose to be the truck with all the equipment, or be a little bit faster with less equipment. I am sorry is 4 high and 4 low not go enough. Maybe you should be looking at ones playstyle before asking for a suit buff.
Guinevere Bravo SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 152	Posted - 2013.04.18 13:24:00 - [18] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: I am sorry is 4 high and 4 low not go enough. Maybe you should be looking at ones playstyle before asking for a suit buff. No its not, considering we dont get a secondary weapon. Yet we are asked to pick up your sorry suits.
Mr Gloo Gloo What The French CRONOS. 53	Posted - 2013.04.18 13:57:00 - [19] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: KingBabar wrote: So to conclude: Hitbox: Bigger than assault, but not enough to break it. Strafe speed: Does not match the movement speed stat, does not increase with higher tier suits, its the true downside to be a combat logi.... Some more info: - Lets take the type-B logi suit as an example: I'd use 3 shield extenders on the high slots, a regulator, kinetic katalyser and armor rep on the low slots, no armor plates! Would this setup be so much worse than lets say a B-type assault? And lets for the sake of argument pretend that these two suits have the same damage output and total hitpoints. That's the problem if you don't put any armor plate. Let's take ALL logi suits. Basic HPs are : 125/150 shield/armor With the fit that you mentionned, you have 353/187 HP (mechanic/shield control lvl5) for around 100,000 ISK. With a hard DPS in front of this, you're just loosing money. This is not a viable solution for me. With the assaut B-serie, you have around 300 shield HP without any extender and shield control lvl5. This is the big difference. Logi suits are half/half shield/armor. You can't tank in a way or the other. You just choose to be the truck with all the equipment, or be a little bit faster with less equipment. I am sorry is 4 high and 4 low not go enough. Maybe you should be looking at ones playstyle before asking for a suit buff. I didn't ask for a buff ... And on B-serie it's 3 high/3 low... Logi suit is suppose to go with the heavy. Use a logi suit for a pure DPS is a big big mistake. Heavy is a tank Logi is a heal/troll Assaut/scout are DPS That's it, that's all !!! Edit : and as a logi, i'm 4+ KDR. And if you take a look to WP leaderboard, take a look at my kills compare to others around me... Don't tell me how to play logi.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 527	Posted - 2013.04.18 14:03:00 - [20] - Quote - The lower HP is not an issue in my oppinion. Its not that much and if the Caldari logisuit has the same general stats as the current logisuits the extra 50 shields it gets with my fit makes up this difference. - A little larger hitboks is also ok, not a good thing but something I can live with. - The comination of a bigger hitboks and the lower strafe speed ruines the combat potential of the suit. So to conclude: Me going Caldari Logi suit, combat fitted is a bad idea in general cause I'll get owned on a general basis... damn, I really want some change....

low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 17	Posted - 2013.04.18 16:03:00 - [21] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Logi strafe speed is definitely slower (not by a huge margin, but larger than Scout to Assault). I think they also have less stamina, which means less options to use speed to reduce hits, even if you can make yourself faster. As for hitbox, it's definitely similar in size to the Assault - Assaults are slightly smaller, but it's not a large difference. they 'type II' logi gets an endurance bonus.
Guinevere Bravo SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 152	Posted - 2013.04.18 16:34:00 - [22] - Quote KingBabar wrote: - The lower HP is not an issue in my oppinion. Its not that much and if the Caldari logisuit has the same general stats as the current logisuits the extra 50 shields it gets with my fit makes up this difference. - A little larger hitboks is also ok, not a good thing but something I can live with. - The comination of a bigger hitboks and the lower strafe speed ruines the combat potential of the suit. So to conclude: Me going Caldari Logi suit, combat fitted is a bad idea in general cause I'll get owned on a general basis... damn, I really want some change.... Stop being a pansy, if you have enough skill to be a good Assault player that will directly translate to being a proficient Logi player, as long as your doing things that actually support your team rather than going full killer. Roll a female to get that hit box size down... Strafe speed is meh and more meh in a T2 or B-Series with a kinetic mod. EDIT my swears
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 104	Posted - 2013.04.18 17:00:00 - [23] - Quote I've played on Exergonic's toon a few times to try it out. The biggest drawback it terms of killing on a Logi are the following: Slightly bigger hitbox No Sidearm (only a big deal vs heavies in cqc) 50 or so less HP Also remembt the Vk.1 players close to an assault and is actually faster than a shield assault and has 50 more stam. It still has 3 equipment slots. In all honesty the vk.1 logi is better than the vk.1 assault at killing with the only drawback on the logi being a slightly larger hit box and lack of a side arm. Uprising however may change my opinion of the logi vk.1 being superior at killing due to passive suite bonus and the lack of a sidearm will be highlighted due to toned down dmg from the weaponry skill nerf while everyones overall HP will stay the same or even increase. I'm torn at the moment as to whether I will got logi or stay assault in the next build as I have to wait and see on the suit bonuses and the new skills and weapons introduced.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 104	Posted - 2013.04.18 17:01:00 - [24] - Quote Guinevere Bravo wrote: KingBabar wrote: - The lower HP is not an issue in my oppinion. Its not that much and if the Caldari logisuit has the same general stats as the current logisuits the extra 50 shields it gets with my fit makes up this difference. - A little larger hitboks is also ok, not a good thing but something I can live with. - The comination of a bigger hitboks and the lower strafe speed ruines the combat potential of the suit. So to conclude: Me going Caldari Logi suit, combat fitted is a bad idea in general cause I'll get owned on a general basis... damn, I really want some change.... Stop being a pansy, if you have enough skill to be a good Assault player that will directly translate to being a proficient Logi player, as long as your doing things that actually support your team rather than going full killer. Roll a female to get that hit box size down... Strafe speed is meh and more meh in a T2 or B-Series with a kinetic mod. EDIT my swears the type-II logi suit is faster than assault.


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page