DUST Search - Esports and DUST 514 (Discuss)

WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote:

One of the main reason I started playing Dust was because of its potential for Esports. Not only could Dust be sponsored by tradition means, but also Eve corporations. However, the whole topic towards Epsorts has seemed to cool down and is hardly even mentioned. When I go to fanfest this year, I plan to hound CCP on dates and future prospects for this awesome type of gaming. Before I do that I just want to lay some ground work and maybe get peoples idea and opinions on the subject.

What is Esports?

Esports(Electronic Sports) is in essence the best of the best playing against each other. Esports tries to incorporate a strong balance between teamwork and individual skill. Maps are very balance and well designed, so no one team has a significant advantage. Furthermore, these events are usually run by third party sites.

Here a list of some:
Game battles
EGL
Fraggednation
and many more

The environment of Esports is to be as balanced as possible. Players rely more on their skill then any given weapon, so expect a possible weapon/Gear ban list.Any gamer looking for the most competitive aspect of a game should participate in E-sports.

ReGnuM can't PC and Corp battles be considered Esport?

The simple answer is no.
Well some corp battle may have the best players facing off against each other. The environment and conditions of these battles can't really qualify as Esports. Here is a couple reasons why.

1. Corp battles player size is too big. More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual.

2. Vehicles. This one of the main reasons why the BF series as whole has trouble gaining MLG spotlight

3. Maps imbalance.

4.Gear imbalance.

5.No diversity in game modes.

Right now DUST 514 is no where near ready for this type of gaming. CCP needs to develop gear and maps designed soley for Esports. Lastly, guys please suggest a way. Any game modes, map design, party size, and weapon ban. I will do my best to note it down, and ask CCP about it.

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WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:45:00 - [1] - Quote One of the main reason I started playing Dust was because of its potential for Esports. Not only could Dust be sponsored by tradition means, but also Eve corporations. However, the whole topic towards Epsorts has seemed to cool down and is hardly even mentioned. When I go to fanfest this year, I plan to hound CCP on dates and future prospects for this awesome type of gaming. Before I do that I just want to lay some ground work and maybe get peoples idea and opinions on the subject. What is Esports? Esports(Electronic Sports) is in essence the best of the best playing against each other. Esports tries to incorporate a strong balance between teamwork and individual skill. Maps are very balance and well designed, so no one team has a significant advantage. Furthermore, these events are usually run by third party sites. Here a list of some: Game battles EGL Fraggednation and many more The environment of Esports is to be as balanced as possible. Players rely more on their skill then any given weapon, so expect a possible weapon/Gear ban list.Any gamer looking for the most competitive aspect of a game should participate in E-sports. ReGnuM can't PC and Corp battles be considered Esport? The simple answer is no. Well some corp battle may have the best players facing off against each other. The environment and conditions of these battles can't really qualify as Esports. Here is a couple reasons why. 1. Corp battles player size is too big. More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual. 2. Vehicles. This one of the main reasons why the BF series as whole has trouble gaining MLG spotlight 3. Maps imbalance. 4.Gear imbalance. 5.No diversity in game modes. Right now DUST 514 is no where near ready for this type of gaming. CCP needs to develop gear and maps designed soley for Esports. Lastly, guys please suggest a way. Any game modes, map design, party size, and weapon ban. I will do my best to note it down, and ask CCP about it.
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:45:00 - [2] - Quote Possible Gear/Weapon Banlist
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:45:00 - [3] - Quote Other suggestions
Schalac 17 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:53:00 - [4] - Quote You can't do a true esport out of a skill based game like DUST. It is also why I believe that EVE will never truly be taken seriously as an esport.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Legacy Rising 340	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:53:00 - [5] - Quote One of the reasons why esports for BF3 flopped was the lack of a spectator mode. Until you have something similar, I don't see Dust offering more than that. Having a way to verify compliance with game rules, player counts, etc needs to be factored in as well. If you can't control those factors, you get all sorts of unpleasantness. Finally, although the idea of an arena has been floated it would be a long time off if it were to be enacted. Which although unfortunate, gives us more than enough time to inform CCP of what tools we need for real esports action.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 537	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:54:00 - [6] - Quote Well i dont think ill ever be good for eSPorts teams. But i always muse with others the idea of the Roman colliseum in space. eSPORTS lends itself very well to this idea. The hyper competitive mercs who batte as gladiators for fame, riches and glory. I can envision one day these being held in player run districts that offer streaming services for specators and EVE/Dust side betting. It becomes more than just a isolated gamebattle and very much the sporting events of NEW EDEN as the masses descend upon these venues to watch the best of the best in a trail of skill and fortitude. Yes so very much so yes i want to see this in NEW EDEN for all the ways it can benefit the universe and add to the economy in addition to spotlighting the best talent found throught the universe.
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:56:00 - [7] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: You can't do a true esport out of a skill based game like DUST. It is also why I believe that EVE will never truly be taken seriously as an esport. I was thinking CCP needs to design a type of gear that can only be used in a Esport gamemode. Something that is not affected by Passive skills. One can only hope
Yeva Kalsani Reckoners 33	Posted - 2013.04.16 22:57:00 - [8] - Quote Well, there would have to be a "basic" mode, where SP investments don't count, pre-defined fittings you can select from and that are balanced against each other, and so forth. Symmetrical maps and stuff like "rounds". Right now, I agree, it would need a LOT of work to be easily considered e-sport-friendly.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 157	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:01:00 - [9] - Quote great idea, EVE players could watch from space and if anyone tries anything funny, they get blown out of the sky by skyfire batteries.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1239	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:06:00 - [10] - Quote One of my thoughts was with arena play give a lot of control to whoever is hosting the match in terms of gear allowed, match type, etc. Heck make it where whoever is hosting the event even control stuff like gravity and "weather". It seems like for small matches 4 v 4s and 1 v 1s quite popular but would require the creation of special arenas or maps as the OP previously mentioned. You could also add in SP limiters to the characters to balance things out that way. (Lore-wise it would an implant that creates physical and mental limitations to equalize the combatants). Also, specialized weapons and/or vehicles might be nice as well. I think that some kind of arena play where the field is externally limited and balanced has a place, but I think that Dust can offer something unique in the realm of sporting events by also incorporating open game play. The fact of the matter is that skilling your character, managing your resources, and meta ARE part of the game as well and shouldn't be completely forgotten when considering sporting events. I think this can actually create even more interest in terms of sports by having events that also allow things like large battles and Eve orbital support. The unpredictability of this type of gameplay can give Dust its own unique flavor in addition to more traditional arena style gameplay. When looking at Dust and sports though I think, if handled properly, the sky is the limit.

WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:10:00 - [11] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: One of my thoughts was with arena play give a lot of control to whoever is hosting the match in terms of gear allowed, match type, etc. Heck make it where whoever is hosting the event even control stuff like gravity and "weather". It seems like for small matches 4 v 4s and 1 v 1s quite popular but would require the creation of special arenas or maps as the OP previously mentioned. You could also add in SP limiters to the characters to balance things out that way. (Lore-wise it would an implant that creates physical and mental limitations to equalize the combatants). Also, specialized weapons and/or vehicles might be nice as well. I think that some kind of arena play where the field is externally limited and balanced has a place, but I think that Dust can offer something unique in the realm of sporting events by also incorporating open game play. The fact of the matter is that skilling your character, managing your resources, and meta ARE part of the game as well and shouldn't be completely forgotten when considering sporting events. I think this can actually create even more interest in terms of sports by having events that also allow things like large battles and Eve orbital support. The unpredictability of this type of gameplay can give Dust its own unique flavor in addition to more traditional arena style gameplay. When looking at Dust and sports though I think, if handled properly, the sky is the limit. Very very good
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 157	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:12:00 - [12] - Quote the person holding the event should also be able to limit types of weapons and dropsuits etc. There would be nova knife only games and sniper only games that would be cool. Also, some hunger games esc. game modes would be cool.
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1222	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:21:00 - [13] - Quote Can we wait until this game is actually good before we invite the "hardcore" gamers to come in and **** on it even more than our own community does?
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2766	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:22:00 - [14] - Quote TBQH..........this game is FAR from ready for eSports I sent Frame an email months ago (long ass read) about what they would need to do and stuff like gametypes etc to get eSports on DUST even off the ground. Wont expect anything good eSports wise out of DUST till it fully migrates over to PS4 tbh game already struggles with the limited PS3 With the PS4 having built in broadcasting and spectating features DUST can possibly get somewhere but on PS3....not happening game lacks too much polish.
Wicked Glory Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 144	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:31:00 - [15] - Quote Key point is structure and balance. Right now the game is extremely lacking in both areas. Without a specially created game mode/maps/weapons there's no way this game has any potential to be competitive.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 103	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:31:00 - [16] - Quote There has been a lot of chatter from CCP on the development of an Arena mode with the intent of eSports. I expect the arrival of this feature to come in the build after uprising. Hopefully it will come at the 8v8 size now with more balanced maps and an observer mode.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1157	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:37:00 - [17] - Quote Unless they heavily revamp the entire basic structure, I don't see esports happening. OTOH, the persistence and meta-game look like they will offer at least as much content for "serious" and skilled play as any other title on the market, just in a slightly different way. to use a metaphor from actual sports titles, esports are "quick match", what we are doing here will be "online franchise/dynasty".
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:41:00 - [18] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: One of my thoughts was with arena play give a lot of control to whoever is hosting the match in terms of gear allowed, match type, etc. Heck make it where whoever is hosting the event even control stuff like gravity and "weather". It seems like small matches, 4 v 4s and 1 v 1s, are quite popular but would require the creation of special arenas or maps as the OP previously mentioned. You could also add in SP limiters to the characters to balance things out that way. (Lore-wise it would an implant that creates physical and mental limitations to equalize the combatants). Also, specialized weapons and/or vehicles might be nice as well. I think that some kind of arena play where the field is externally limited and balanced has a place, but I think that Dust can offer something unique in the realm of sporting events by also incorporating open game play. The fact of the matter is that skilling your character, managing your resources, and meta ARE part of the game as well and shouldn't be completely forgotten when considering sporting events. I think this can actually create even more interest in terms of sports by having events that also allow things like large battles and Eve orbital support. The unpredictability of this type of gameplay can give Dust its own unique flavor in addition to more traditional arena style gameplay. When looking at Dust and sports though I think, if handled properly, the sky is the limit. TLDR: In addition to arena play have a conquest tournament where teams/alliances compete to take over a tourney planet or something similar. sweet
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.04.16 23:44:00 - [19] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: There has been a lot of chatter from CCP on the development of an Arena mode with the intent of eSports. I expect the arrival of this feature to come in the build after uprising. Hopefully it will come at the 8v8 size now with more balanced maps and an observer mode. I was thinking more of a 4v4 rather then an 8v8
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2766	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:16:00 - [20] - Quote WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote: Kain Spero wrote: One of my thoughts was with arena play give a lot of control to whoever is hosting the match in terms of gear allowed, match type, etc. Heck make it where whoever is hosting the event even control stuff like gravity and "weather". It seems like small matches, 4 v 4s and 1 v 1s, are quite popular but would require the creation of special arenas or maps as the OP previously mentioned. You could also add in SP limiters to the characters to balance things out that way. (Lore-wise it would an implant that creates physical and mental limitations to equalize the combatants). Also, specialized weapons and/or vehicles might be nice as well. I think that some kind of arena play where the field is externally limited and balanced has a place, but I think that Dust can offer something unique in the realm of sporting events by also incorporating open game play. The fact of the matter is that skilling your character, managing your resources, and meta ARE part of the game as well and shouldn't be completely forgotten when considering sporting events. I think this can actually create even more interest in terms of sports by having events that also allow things like large battles and Eve orbital support. The unpredictability of this type of gameplay can give Dust its own unique flavor in addition to more traditional arena style gameplay. When looking at Dust and sports though I think, if handled properly, the sky is the limit. TLDR: In addition to arena play have a conquest tournament where teams/alliances compete to take over a tourney planet or something similar. sweet SOCOM clans do this already and tbh i think the Tacmap tournies that SOCOM clans do are awesome its the same basic concept of territory control and resource management. i can see this happening in DUST but question is.........how do we get a vacant planet to setup a tourney like that? lol

Thor McStrut Terminal Pharmaceuticals Inc. 2	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:33:00 - [21] - Quote Eve already has a successful Alliance Tournament. I foresee this quickly carrying over to DUST. They also livestream it too. As far as "pro" players and MLG type gaming, I was hoping those types would come and go quickly as DUST is likely to lose it's luster as all shooters do over time. Who knows where CCP will take their vision of DUST and Eve, but seeing how Eve has evolved, I'm thinking we're going to see a heavy emphasis put down on roles, coordination, and large scale teamwork.
Piercing Serenity Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 265	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:47:00 - [22] - Quote I agree with Kain. The main limitations to becoming an Esport game are: Popularity and consistency. COD is a a very popular as a traditional FPS game, hence its place as an Esport. It is also largely unchanged from game to game (Much like Starcraft). DUST does not have to fit that exact mold, in my opinion, largely because the main selling point is that it is not a traditional shooter. The emphasis of DUST (and EVE for that matter) is the strength of a group over the strength of a single individual. That is not a bad foundation at all. DUST would be the football of Esports, while COD would be the "street basketball" (A few good one on one players who happen to be on the same team) of the Esports world. Obviously these two are different from each other, but they are both very popular, in their own rights. If DUST is to become an Esport game, then map balance is key. SP difference is okay, because one team with a larger total SP pool can still be beaten by 16 people who each skill into a different weapon or class and play a heavy role game. Maps need to be as equal as possible, however. Manus Peak could not be a Esport map. Line Harvest might.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3477	Posted - 2013.04.17 00:48:00 - [23] - Quote My future vision of arena mode would have arena owner would have control of the rules and even designing maps.
Schalac 17 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:00:00 - [24] - Quote I don't understand why people think that FPS in MLG are all about the individual. They are all team games, sure some players might be a star of a team, but without the whole unit working together the star of that team is going to get stomped by the other team working together.
LIFE RIPPER Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 128	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:17:00 - [25] - Quote Let me guess? The whole weapon ban would include everything but the AR am I right? Cause we all know that's all you play with. I would think in keeping with dust as a sandbox any weapon should be allowed to be used just like the true gladiator arena. Would you really want to say I am the best in the arena, except this weapon that weapon this skill level that skill level? No, a true gladiator would step in the ring and fight whatever man or beast shows up, no excuses and making it come down to whom has the twicheyest finger, or in your case the best mouse set up sounds pretty lame.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 157	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:20:00 - [26] - Quote LIFE RIPPER wrote: Let me guess? The whole weapon ban would include everything but the AR am I right? Cause we all know that's all you play with. I would think in keeping with dust as a sandbox any weapon should be allowed to be used just like the true gladiator arena. Would you really want to say I am the best in the arena, except this weapon that weapon this skill level that skill level? No, a true gladiator would step in the ring and fight whatever man or beast shows up, no excuses and making it come down to whom has the twicheyest finger, or in your case the best mouse set up sounds pretty lame. BEASTS!!!!!!! YES, LET US FIGHT ALIEN BEASTS AND DRONES AND WHATEVER IN A FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!!!! YEAH!!!! WOOOOOHHHH!!!!! FOOTBALL!!!!
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:21:00 - [27] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: I don't understand why people think that FPS in MLG are all about the individual. They are all team games, sure some players might be a star of a team, but without the whole unit working together the star of that team is going to get stomped by the other team working together. I think your missing the point. Any MLG player is a top tier, when it comes to individual skill. Its this a combination of this teamwork and skill that makes them the best.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1245	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:32:00 - [28] - Quote Once the game mechanics allow it, I may attempt to set up an LAV racing circuit.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:41:00 - [29] - Quote WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote: One of the main reason I started playing Dust was because of its potential for Esports. Not only could Dust be sponsored by tradition means, but also Eve corporations. However, the whole topic towards Epsorts has seemed to cool down and is hardly even mentioned. When I go to fanfest this year, I plan to hound CCP on dates and future prospects for this awesome type of gaming. Before I do that I just want to lay some ground work and maybe get peoples idea and opinions on the subject. What is Esports? Esports(Electronic Sports) is in essence the best of the best playing against each other. Esports tries to incorporate a strong balance between teamwork and individual skill. Maps are very balance and well designed, so no one team has a significant advantage. Furthermore, these events are usually run by third party sites. Here a list of some: Game battles EGL Fraggednation and many more The environment of Esports is to be as balanced as possible. Players rely more on their skill then any given weapon, so expect a possible weapon/Gear ban list.Any gamer looking for the most competitive aspect of a game should participate in E-sports. ReGnuM can't PC and Corp battles be considered Esport? The simple answer is no. Well some corp battle may have the best players facing off against each other. The environment and conditions of these battles can't really qualify as Esports. Here is a couple reasons why. 1. Corp battles player size is too big. More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual. 2. Vehicles. This one of the main reasons why the BF series as whole has trouble gaining MLG spotlight 3. Maps imbalance. 4.Gear imbalance. 5.No diversity in game modes. Right now DUST 514 is no where near ready for this type of gaming. CCP needs to develop gear and maps designed soley for Esports. Lastly, guys please suggest a way. Any game modes, map design, party size, and weapon ban. I will do my best to note it down, and ask CCP about it. by your description I could give a ** less about watching any game that MLG hosts, sounds like really boring twitch shooter ** where every weapon is effectively the same thing. That said yes dust need a lot of work even with out esports although it does need a return of grudge matches.
Jotun Hiem The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 533	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:43:00 - [30] - Quote Quote: 1. Corp battles player size is too big. More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual. They're already the smallest game mode you can play. How few people do you want? Quote: 2. Vehicles. This one of the main reasons why the BF series as whole has trouble gaining MLG spotlight Soo... what you gunna do? Invalidate three (soon to be more) playstyles for the sake of sportsmanship? Quote: 3. Maps imbalance. You're attacking the fortified base of an enemy, it isn't really supposed to be that fair. This might also change if and when they introduce the gladiator mode. Quote: 4.Gear imbalance. One of the biggest selling points of DUST is purchasing weapons and armor and out-gearing your opponent. Changing this seems like a step away from what the Devs are trying to make. Quote: 5.No diversity in game modes. Eh... SC2 only has one game mode, and it's plenty popular. CS:S was also popular for a really long time and I think it only had... three? As far as I can tell, to make DUST E-sport compatible you would have to take the design in a direction that is not at all in line with what CCP is trying to make. If that's true, then what's the point in even discussing this?



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