DUST Search - Esports and DUST 514 (Discuss)

blue gt wrote:

WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote:

One of the main reason I started playing Dust was because of its potential for Esports. Not only could Dust be sponsored by tradition means, but also Eve corporations. However, the whole topic towards Epsorts has seemed to cool down and is hardly even mentioned. When I go to fanfest this year, I plan to hound CCP on dates and future prospects for this awesome type of gaming. Before I do that I just want to lay some ground work and maybe get peoples idea and opinions on the subject.

What is Esports?

Esports(Electronic Sports) is in essence the best of the best playing against each other. Esports tries to incorporate a strong balance between teamwork and individual skill. Maps are very balance and well designed, so no one team has a significant advantage. Furthermore, these events are usually run by third party sites.

Here a list of some:
Game battles
EGL
Fraggednation
and many more

The environment of Esports is to be as balanced as possible. Players rely more on their skill then any given weapon, so expect a possible weapon/Gear ban list.Any gamer looking for the most competitive aspect of a game should participate in E-sports.

ReGnuM can't PC and Corp battles be considered Esport?

The simple answer is no.
Well some corp battle may have the best players facing off against each other. The environment and conditions of these battles can't really qualify as Esports. Here is a couple reasons why.

1. Corp battles player size is too big. More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual.

2. Vehicles. This one of the main reasons why the BF series as whole has trouble gaining MLG spotlight

3. Maps imbalance.

4.Gear imbalance.

5.No diversity in game modes.

Right now DUST 514 is no where near ready for this type of gaming. CCP needs to develop gear and maps designed soley for Esports. Lastly, guys please suggest a way. Any game modes, map design, party size, and weapon ban. I will do my best to note it down, and ask CCP about it.

by your description I could give a **** less about watching any game that MLG hosts, sounds like really boring twitch shooter **** where every weapon is effectively the same thing. That said yes dust need a lot of work even with out esports although it does need a return of grudge matches.

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blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:43:00 - [31] - Quote Because balance is I cant tell the difference between weapons unless I play 24/7. I'm just gonna leave this here. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fextra-credits.net%2Fepisodes%2Fperfect-imbalance%2F&ei=Df5tUa_TNIW50AGykoDgCg&usg=AFQjCNGPcGjt2t6rEUlfAb_DQDyUX6NnIQ&sig2=QyVyQGX0VGX4PmCB0q_cCg
Schalac 17 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:48:00 - [32] - Quote WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: I don't understand why people think that FPS in MLG are all about the individual. They are all team games, sure some players might be a star of a team, but without the whole unit working together the star of that team is going to get stomped by the other team working together. I think your missing the point. Any MLG player is a top tier, when it comes to individual skill. Its this a combination of this teamwork and skill that makes them the best. I have seen lesser ranked players take down teams of "better" players in UT all the time. If you get a clan together and practice then join up on an open tournament you can jump right in and play against the "pros" too. MLG isn't the players. It is like the NFL or FIFA. I have also seen "pro" teams do open recruitment through forums and the servers they play on.
Schalac 17 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.04.17 01:55:00 - [33] - Quote blue gt wrote: Because balance is I cant tell the difference between weapons unless I play 24/7. I'm just gonna leave this here. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fextra-credits.net%2Fepisodes%2Fperfect-imbalance%2F&ei=Df5tUa_TNIW50AGykoDgCg&usg=AFQjCNGPcGjt2t6rEUlfAb_DQDyUX6NnIQ&sig2=QyVyQGX0VGX4PmCB0q_cCg After reading that thread, to me Splinter Cell is the perfect example of what they were talking about. Not the new SC but games like Chaos Theory or Pandora Tomorrow. Which I don't feel has anything to do with the topic of DUST or how it would be an esport.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2013.04.17 02:04:00 - [34] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: One of my thoughts was with arena play give a lot of control to whoever is hosting the match in terms of gear allowed, match type, etc. Heck make it where whoever is hosting the event even control stuff like gravity and "weather". It seems like small matches, 4 v 4s and 1 v 1s, are quite popular but would require the creation of special arenas or maps as the OP previously mentioned. You could also add in SP limiters to the characters to balance things out that way. (Lore-wise it would an implant that creates physical and mental limitations to equalize the combatants). Also, specialized weapons and/or vehicles might be nice as well. I think that some kind of arena play where the field is externally limited and balanced has a place, but I think that Dust can offer something unique in the realm of sporting events by also incorporating open game play. The fact of the matter is that skilling your character, managing your resources, and meta ARE part of the game as well and shouldn't be completely forgotten when considering sporting events. I think this can actually create even more interest in terms of sports by having events that also allow things like large battles and Eve orbital support. The unpredictability of this type of gameplay can give Dust its own unique flavor in addition to more traditional arena style gameplay. When looking at Dust and sports though I think, if handled properly, the sky is the limit. TLDR: In addition to arena play have a conquest tournament where teams/alliances compete to take over a tourney planet or something similar. well said
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.04.17 02:23:00 - [35] - Quote blue gt wrote: WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote: One of the main reason I started playing Dust was because of its potential for Esports. Not only could Dust be sponsored by tradition means, but also Eve corporations. However, the whole topic towards Epsorts has seemed to cool down and is hardly even mentioned. When I go to fanfest this year, I plan to hound CCP on dates and future prospects for this awesome type of gaming. Before I do that I just want to lay some ground work and maybe get peoples idea and opinions on the subject. What is Esports? Esports(Electronic Sports) is in essence the best of the best playing against each other. Esports tries to incorporate a strong balance between teamwork and individual skill. Maps are very balance and well designed, so no one team has a significant advantage. Furthermore, these events are usually run by third party sites. Here a list of some: Game battles EGL Fraggednation and many more The environment of Esports is to be as balanced as possible. Players rely more on their skill then any given weapon, so expect a possible weapon/Gear ban list.Any gamer looking for the most competitive aspect of a game should participate in E-sports. ReGnuM can't PC and Corp battles be considered Esport? The simple answer is no. Well some corp battle may have the best players facing off against each other. The environment and conditions of these battles can't really qualify as Esports. Here is a couple reasons why. 1. Corp battles player size is too big. More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual. 2. Vehicles. This one of the main reasons why the BF series as whole has trouble gaining MLG spotlight 3. Maps imbalance. 4.Gear imbalance. 5.No diversity in game modes. Right now DUST 514 is no where near ready for this type of gaming. CCP needs to develop gear and maps designed soley for Esports. Lastly, guys please suggest a way. Any game modes, map design, party size, and weapon ban. I will do my best to note it down, and ask CCP about it. by your description I could give a ** less about watching any game that MLG hosts, sounds like really boring twitch shooter ** where every weapon is effectively the same thing. That said yes dust need a lot of work even with out esports although it does need a return of grudge matches. No need to swear. We get it your a internet tough guy. Anyways your clearly not cut out for this gaming style if you can't understand weapon balance.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 734	Posted - 2013.04.17 03:55:00 - [36] - Quote Corporations should be able to purchase an Arena District, or convert one of their planet districts into an arena. THey could have the ability to set their own rules, and make balanced competitions that did not need to rely on the balancing for a sandbox approach that will determine how a weapon or vehicle will function in the wider world of Dust 514. Esports must make sense in the wider game world. Competitions should be run as if they were actually "real" in the world of EVE, because, well, they kind of are. People that want to run Esports competitions need to earn the respect, reputation, and ISK to be able to put together successful tournaments. But it would be futile and ridiculous to try to turn Dust, or EVE itself into an Esport. The Esport has to just co-exist with much wider, more diverse, and varied ways to play the game. That said, I like the idea, and hope that CCP does support it. Competitive play that is much more like sport can coexist with a huge variety of play-styles and philosophies about what it means to game, what is and isn't fair, and so on. Esports and competitive play can work in a game that was never designed for anything like that. Demon's Souls for example. In Demon's Souls massive player run tournaments happened throughout the life of the game. Players made their own rules and were able to reach consensus for tournaments to create more balanced and competitive fights. That tradition continued into Dark Souls. The various kinds of competitions and tournaments that players have been able to create are much more interesting and fun than the Arena mode that was added in the Dark Souls DLC. And if From Software had attempted to change Dark Souls so that the entire game was just one big "balanced" competitive Esports arena that would probably have been the worst possible thing to happen in gaming. Ever. Also, trolling tournaments was a well respected and long running tradition in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. It would be great if the same thing were to happen in Dust. Any tournaments with actual big money prizes for players would have to be rely on the munificence of the Jovians. But in a "season" of competitive play the corporations that wanted to run something like a mercenary blood sport league in New Eden would have to come up with the resources to make is successful. They would have to be able to protect their tournaments from disruption. Etc. So - player run Esports in Dust will be as interesting, as fun to participate in, and as creative as anything CCP would be able to create for Esports. The best possible solution would be for CCP to give us some tools that we can use to create our own competitions. And the players can take it from there. Want to have an LAV jousting tournament! Go for it. Want to have very precisely balanced team shoot outs with a lot of rules about weapon and vehicle usage, with referees, red cards, sponsers, cheerleaders and so on? Go for it. When and if any outside Esport organizations want to be involved they can do so how and when they see fit. But Esports should never define the game. It should only ever be one small choice among a vast universe of choices that a player can make when they sit down in front of their console (or iPad?) and ask themselves, "What do I want to do in New Eden today?"
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 17	Posted - 2013.04.17 04:01:00 - [37] - Quote i think that this is something ccp wants very much, but i don't believe they'll prioritize it for another year or so.
DigiOps DUST University Ivy League 113	Posted - 2013.04.17 04:03:00 - [38] - Quote WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote: More spotlight is focused on the team then the individual. That's why.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 342	Posted - 2013.04.17 05:04:00 - [39] - Quote eSports will never happen. There is no one who plays professionally that would even consider touching this game. CCP is just trying to generate hype and nothing more. Even if they tried getting this game big eSports-wise I'm sure none of them have a clue what being a competitive, skill-based shooter actually entails.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2544	Posted - 2013.04.17 07:46:00 - [40] - Quote There's the arena/gladiator mode that's being considered. In that, you could adjust rules - SP levels, various weapon/vehicle restrictions, etc. If and when this plan eventuates, depending how solid it is, we might be onto an esports winner. But outside of that, there's no valid reason why DUST should even try to be part of the esports circuit.



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