DUST Search - Is this Catastrophic?

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Illuminaughty-696 wrote:

SmileB4Death wrote:

I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?..

No. The merc packs originally stated that they would be refunded every SP reset AND upon commercial release. Some people purchased them without reading them. Many, such as myself, took the time to read what we were buying and only purchased the packs on that understanding.(further spending AUR in game based on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release).

Originally, before people QQ'ed about SP resets all day every day and CCP caved and stated there would be no more SP resets, this would not have been an issue as an SP reset and a merc pack refund would have happened upon commercial release. Now we're here.

CCP is in the unenviable position of having to decide to enact the something catastrophic clause and reset everyone's SP on commercial release, violating the purchase agreement wherein it was clearly stated the merc packs would be refunded on commercial release (despite there now no longer being a planned SP reset), or trying to find some compromise that doesn't still get them sued. This is a catastrophe of their own making albeit influenced by all the people that threatened to quit the game if an SP reset happened. Perfect example of the SP reset QQ mentality:

Zekain Kade wrote:

Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:

If they do a reset to 0 sp??
Then screw this game.

Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal.

Yeah, it'll destroy this game. Hyperbolic much? I'd love to have you as a customer. You clearly believe it's okay to not deliver on what is paid for once it is 'outdated' by a whole three months.

Mr Internet Lawyer, you agreed to a contract not to take CCP to court.

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Sontie VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 215	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:40:00 - [1] - Quote They said they wouldn't reset characters barring something catastrophic... But if people get their panties wadded up enough, they might make the Aurum refund thing a legal matter. At which point, the only option CCP would have would be a complete reset/refund for everyone. Oh god! I don't think I could take it! The competitive grinding to ensure you hit every cap, the requirement that you have all boosters at all time, so that you don't fall behind. I'll just quit. Let my character farm passive sp for a year or three. This thought has hurt my heart. I need chocolate.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 468	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:43:00 - [2] - Quote If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 1220	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:48:00 - [3] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2576	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:53:00 - [4] - Quote A bunch of whining parots hardly counts as catastrophic.
SmileB4Death Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 59	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:56:00 - [5] - Quote I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?..
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:56:00 - [6] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal. Outdated deal according to who? You. Nope sorry issue was never resolved and gamestop merc packs still have the language. please take the time to better inform yourself on the subject Thanks.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 146	Posted - 2013.04.15 16:57:00 - [7] - Quote me neither. They still get to keep everything they bought with Aurum right?
NIKIA BETHUNE Ill Omens EoN. 123	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:02:00 - [8] - Quote I dont think I would stick around if they did a reset.
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 241	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:09:00 - [9] - Quote SmileB4Death wrote: I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?.. No. The merc packs originally stated that they would be refunded every SP reset AND upon commercial release. Some people purchased them without reading them. Many, such as myself, took the time to read what we were buying and only purchased the packs on that understanding.(further spending AUR in game based on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release). Originally, before people QQ'ed about SP resets all day every day and CCP caved and stated there would be no more SP resets, this would not have been an issue as an SP reset and a merc pack refund would have happened upon commercial release. Now we're here. CCP is in the unenviable position of having to decide to enact the something catastrophic clause and reset everyone's SP on commercial release, violating the purchase agreement wherein it was clearly stated the merc packs would be refunded on commercial release (despite there now no longer being a planned SP reset), or trying to find some compromise that doesn't still get them sued. This is a catastrophe of their own making albeit influenced by all the people that threatened to quit the game if an SP reset happened. Perfect example of the SP reset QQ mentality: Zekain Kade wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal. Yeah, it'll destroy this game. Hyperbolic much? I'd love to have you as a customer. You clearly believe it's okay to not deliver on what is paid for once it is 'outdated' by a whole three months.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2577	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:20:00 - [10] - Quote The funniest thing about this, is that we're nowhere near commercial release, so this is just people blowing smoke because they're AFKing instead of playing the game

Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 875	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:24:00 - [11] - Quote I cetainly hope not, but if that's what happens... fuq it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 63	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:24:00 - [12] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?.. No. The merc packs originally stated that they would be refunded every SP reset AND upon commercial release. Some people purchased them without reading them. Many, such as myself, took the time to read what we were buying and only purchased the packs on that understanding.(further spending AUR in game based on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release). Originally, before people QQ'ed about SP resets all day every day and CCP caved and stated there would be no more SP resets, this would not have been an issue as an SP reset and a merc pack refund would have happened upon commercial release. Now we're here. CCP is in the unenviable position of having to decide to enact the something catastrophic clause and reset everyone's SP on commercial release, violating the purchase agreement wherein it was clearly stated the merc packs would be refunded on commercial release (despite there now no longer being a planned SP reset), or trying to find some compromise that doesn't still get them sued. This is a catastrophe of their own making albeit influenced by all the people that threatened to quit the game if an SP reset happened. Perfect example of the SP reset QQ mentality: Zekain Kade wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal. Yeah, it'll destroy this game. Hyperbolic much? I'd love to have you as a customer. You clearly believe it's okay to not deliver on what is paid for once it is 'outdated' by a whole three months. Mr Internet Lawyer, you agreed to a contract not to take CCP to court.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 220	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:28:00 - [13] - Quote Commercial release I will keep all my SP and CCP will keep all my AUR Whoever wants ther AUR back will get reset to 0 and have to start all over again
Biven55 Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:36:00 - [14] - Quote As a developer, I understand that they are funding the game by selling AUR in the beta. I get it. But, in retrospec, I think it was a poor choice. I just started this weekend, but if I had spent any real money on this game and then lost it during a BETA reset, I'd be furious. One of the dangers of a long beta process. I freely admit that I don't know all the details to the agreements that were in place. I just think it was poor choice to allow people to spend money in a beta environment.
ca ronic Moffit Bros 2	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:36:00 - [15] - Quote If you get your aur refunded you are just going to spend it on more boosters. I dont get it either. People think they should have the aur refunded and keep the skill points? So they can start over where they were a month ago just to get where they are today. lol. It makes no sense why someone would want that. They cheat themselves cause they are so worried about getting cheated. I'd probably just spend my refunded aur on passive boosters and not play for a few months. Ive been grinding it out for a month, not going to do that again.
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 241	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:43:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Mr Internet Lawyer, you agreed to a contract not to take CCP to court. Nice. A stalker. How . . . pathetic. As I responded to you in another thread, when you posted the exact same, horribly uninformed, comment-- you clearly need to read the EULA yourself. It doesn't state that at all. Try in particular point 14.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 485	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:45:00 - [17] - Quote This isn't catastrophic. CCP can say ballz and do nothing, their EULA protects against that.
Sentient Archon Red Star. EoN. 953	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:48:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Commercial release I will keep all my SP and CCP will keep all my AUR Whoever wants ther AUR back will get reset to 0 and have to start all over again Red Star;- keeping it simple !
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 876	Posted - 2013.04.15 17:53:00 - [19] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Mr Internet Lawyer, you agreed to a contract not to take CCP to court. Nice. A stalker. How . . . pathetic. As I responded to you in another thread, when you posted the exact same, horribly uninformed, comment-- you clearly need to read the EULA yourself. It doesn't state that at all. Try in particular point 14. The Sony EULA on the other hand does say that. I wonder what kind of protection Gamestop has?
Tony Bonez Nova Tech Marines 6	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:37:00 - [20] - Quote I don't have time to look through the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) at the moment, but I believe that the definition of a commercial release constitutes that it has become available to the general public for purchase. If this is the case, then you have to remember that a legal commercial release Gëá the normal use of the term. If this is the definition applied, then the open Beta constituted the legal commercial release, and they have fulfilled their obligations under the contract. Like I said though, I don't have time to look through the UCC to verify this definition, but I would assume this to be CCP's defense in regards to this matter.

Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1128	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:43:00 - [21] - Quote SmileB4Death wrote: I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?.. We paid for a set of Merc Pack items at commercial release. Commercial release hasn't happened yet. It's that simple. slypie11 wrote: me neither. They still get to keep everything they bought with Aurum right? Yes, but we haven't GOTTEN everything we bought yet. One final refund of all Merc Pack items is due to us at commercial release.
Chris F2112 187. 42	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:46:00 - [22] - Quote Biven55 wrote: As a developer, I understand that they are funding the game by selling AUR in the beta. I get it. But, in retrospec, I think it was a poor choice. I just started this weekend, but if I had spent any real money on this game and then lost it during a BETA reset, I'd be furious. One of the dangers of a long beta process. I freely admit that I don't know all the details to the agreements that were in place. I just think it was poor choice to allow people to spend money in a beta environment. Problem is that they didn't lose anything. After each full reset, all their Aurum was completely refunded. The people complaining now just want another free merc pack in addition to the items they already have and are still using.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 586	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:48:00 - [23] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The funniest thing about this, is that we're nowhere near commercial release, so this is just people blowing smoke because they're AFKing instead of playing the game How despicable and underhanded of you, trying to associate us AFKers with those scum.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 370	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:50:00 - [24] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Illuminaughty-696 wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?.. No. The merc packs originally stated that they would be refunded every SP reset AND upon commercial release. Some people purchased them without reading them. Many, such as myself, took the time to read what we were buying and only purchased the packs on that understanding.(further spending AUR in game based on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release). Originally, before people QQ'ed about SP resets all day every day and CCP caved and stated there would be no more SP resets, this would not have been an issue as an SP reset and a merc pack refund would have happened upon commercial release. Now we're here. CCP is in the unenviable position of having to decide to enact the something catastrophic clause and reset everyone's SP on commercial release, violating the purchase agreement wherein it was clearly stated the merc packs would be refunded on commercial release (despite there now no longer being a planned SP reset), or trying to find some compromise that doesn't still get them sued. This is a catastrophe of their own making albeit influenced by all the people that threatened to quit the game if an SP reset happened. Perfect example of the SP reset QQ mentality: Zekain Kade wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal. Yeah, it'll destroy this game. Hyperbolic much? I'd love to have you as a customer. You clearly believe it's okay to not deliver on what is paid for once it is 'outdated' by a whole three months. Mr Internet Lawyer, you agreed to a contract not to take CCP to court. In most jurisdictions you can't sign off legal rights. In other words, even if there is language in a contract saying you can't do X, and there is a law barring usage of X, that part of contract is void.
Tony Bonez Nova Tech Marines 6	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:59:00 - [25] - Quote ^^^^ That is somewhat true. Although certain rights cannot be waived, in some instances one's right to sue can be waived in a contract. I haven't read the clause, so I have no opinion on whether or not it is valid. But a company can certainly protect itself from specific claims through a waiver clause.
Kane Fyea BetaMax. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2013.04.15 20:05:00 - [26] - Quote I suggest reading sonys tos here http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html Specifically 17. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 139	Posted - 2013.04.15 20:15:00 - [27] - Quote The thought of this thread, I need bacon- and thats a first
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 693	Posted - 2013.04.15 20:51:00 - [28] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: I suggest reading sonys tos here http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html Specifically 17. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION 1. Disputes must go through arbitration rather than filed in court 2. Disputes that are filed in small claims court (where something over a $20 merc pack would end up) are not subject to these requirements What was the point of highlighting that section?
Sontie VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 219	Posted - 2013.04.15 20:56:00 - [29] - Quote I do believe that CCP told either IGN or MASSIVELY or something like that that the May 6th release would be the release that takes Dust gold...
Kane Fyea BetaMax. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2013.04.15 21:24:00 - [30] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: I suggest reading sonys tos here http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html Specifically 17. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION 1. Disputes must go through arbitration rather than filed in court 2. Disputes that are filed in small claims court (where something over a $20 merc pack would end up) are not subject to these requirements What was the point of highlighting that section? People were saying they were going to go to court which as long as you accept the tos you waive your rights to sue them. Btw this was added about a year ago.

Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 469	Posted - 2013.04.15 21:36:00 - [31] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?.. No. The merc packs originally stated that they would be refunded every SP reset AND upon commercial release. Some people purchased them without reading them. Many, such as myself, took the time to read what we were buying and only purchased the packs on that understanding.(further spending AUR in game based on the understanding it would be refunded on commercial release). Originally, before people QQ'ed about SP resets all day every day and CCP caved and stated there would be no more SP resets, this would not have been an issue as an SP reset and a merc pack refund would have happened upon commercial release. Now we're here. CCP is in the unenviable position of having to decide to enact the something catastrophic clause and reset everyone's SP on commercial release, violating the purchase agreement wherein it was clearly stated the merc packs would be refunded on commercial release (despite there now no longer being a planned SP reset), or trying to find some compromise that doesn't still get them sued. This is a catastrophe of their own making albeit influenced by all the people that threatened to quit the game if an SP reset happened. Perfect example of the SP reset QQ mentality: Zekain Kade wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. Unfortunately that might happen if people keep bitching. They'll destroy thus game over an outdated deal. Yeah, it'll destroy this game. Hyperbolic much? I'd love to have you as a customer. You clearly believe it's okay to not deliver on what is paid for once it is 'outdated' by a whole three months. "Deliver on what is paid for" You have no idea what you are talking about. All CCP has to do is say: once we finish 45 builds of Dust 514 expansions and content upgrades then we feel that the game will be ready for commercial release on the Playstation Five * unless further upgrades and content expansions delay our commercial release until the Playstation Six is released* unless further upgrades and content expansions delay our commercial release until the Playstation Seven is released* *unless further upgrades and content expansions delay our commercial release until the Playstation Eight is released unless further upgrades and content expansions delay our commercial release until the Playstation Nine is released***
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 693	Posted - 2013.04.15 21:53:00 - [32] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: I suggest reading sonys tos here http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html Specifically 17. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION 1. Disputes must go through arbitration rather than filed in court 2. Disputes that are filed in small claims court (where something over a $20 merc pack would end up) are not subject to these requirements What was the point of highlighting that section? People were saying they were going to go to court which as long as you accept the tos you waive your rights to sue them. Btw this was added about a year ago. You obviously didn't read the ToS or my post.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 232	Posted - 2013.04.16 10:47:00 - [33] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: I don't understand what their complaining about. They want free Aurum?.. We paid for a set of Merc Pack items at commercial release. Commercial release hasn't happened yet. It's that simple. slypie11 wrote: me neither. They still get to keep everything they bought with Aurum right? Yes, but we haven't GOTTEN everything we bought yet. One final refund of all Merc Pack items is due to us at commercial release. No you didnt you bought them in the beta, closed or open its still buying them in the beta and you knew this, we wasnt buying for commercial release we were buying them because we wanted them now and to use them now Yes we have, every merc pack i have bought i have got all the items and the AUR included in the merc pack, with the AUR i bought boosters and got to 8.5mil SP If you want your refund at commercial release then expect to go back to square 0 and have your player be completely wiped of everything For me i will be fine because i dont want a refund so i get to keep my player and everything they have
Mortedeamor Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 4	Posted - 2013.04.16 10:52:00 - [34] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: If they do a reset to 0 sp?? Then screw this game. people need to stop whining when push comes to shove anyone who spent aur did so to get where they are ..me im in the 8 mill club and ide be extremely upset if i had to get to that point for like the 2nd or 3rd time since this beta started ...they will enable asset transfer next build if your changing your specialization and you has a huge inv you cant use anymore sell it
Three Double-A Batteries Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2013.04.16 10:52:00 - [35] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: I suggest reading sonys tos here http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html Specifically 17. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION 1. Disputes must go through arbitration rather than filed in court 2. Disputes that are filed in small claims court (where something over a $20 merc pack would end up) are not subject to these requirements What was the point of highlighting that section? People were saying they were going to go to court which as long as you accept the tos you waive your rights to sue them. Btw this was added about a year ago. Court? Why? Just do a credit card charge back. No waiver applies. People need to read up on their credit card T&Cs.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2515	Posted - 2013.04.16 14:09:00 - [36] - Quote 1. DUST has covered in its EULA that nobody has rights to "their" content as defined within the context of the beta. - This is a perfectly valid example when CCP decide to reset/delete/not credit back content you aquired within the game client through normal gameplay or use of the in-game marketplace. Unfortunately, it DOESN'T apply to the external purchase of a Merc Pack. That's covered as a purchase agreement and not performed within the DUST client, and is therefore not subject to the limitations applied by the EULA. 2. Sony terms of service claim "arbitration" is the only valid option. - To quote the referenced portion of the agreement: Quote: The term "Dispute" means any dispute, claim, or controversy between you and any Sony Entity regarding any SEN First Party Services FIRST PARTY services, meaning that DUST, which is a third-party product made by someone other than Sony, is totally independent of this clause anyway, and thus not bound by it. - Even if DUST was covered by that portion of the agreement, this part would apply: Quote: Exclusions from Arbitration. YOU AND THE SONY ENTITIES AGREE THAT ANY CLAIM FILED BY YOU OR BY A SONY ENTITY IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE ARBITRATION TERMS CONTAINED IN THIS SECTION 17. Take it to small claims court, arbitration doesn't apply. Also, this particular version of the agreement is only valid for US accounts, and EU and other regions are covered by different agreements that were written on different dates and specify different conditions, many of which are far more limited because of various local laws which prevent certain clauses in the agreements from applying in some countries.


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