DUST Search - Type-I Assault Suits Suck

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

Protoman Is God wrote:

Standard
A series
Vk0
and Balacs modified VK0

They all have their uses and aren't nearly as useless are you are trying to say they are.

Not useless, just outclassed... completely.

Edit: Not sure, but I think armor has better resistances, that's about it as far as advantages I can think of.

Actually, you have that backwards.

Armor takes bonus damage from explosives like mass drivers and grenades, and projectiles like HMG's & SMG's. Shields take bonus damage from lasors and.... well... lasors. There's a grenade specifically for knocking off shields though, but a regular grenade does the same to armor so that's not really applicable.

I think the only thing armor is resistant to

Jotun Hiem wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

maybe because 2 > 1?

All the other suits have a trade off.

The heavy gets less EHP for mobility.

The Logi loses an equipment slot for mobility

I don't remember exactly what the scout does. I think it exchanges a sidearm slot for an equipment slot, but I may be mistaken.

The Assault suits are the only ones where Type-II and correlating variants are straight up better.

The Type-ll Scout suits are a little slower and I believe have more armor and less shields, plus have an additional equipment slot.

The Logi looses a vital equipment slot and gains speed. They also loose no PG/CPU, so not having that third piece of equipment means you have more PG/CPU to fit better mods and weapons.

The Heavy get's less EHP and less incentive to equip damage mods by running Type-ll suits since half their health will be dictated by the shield extenders in it's high slots.

The assault Type-ll suit has more EHP, better health regeneration, better speed and more PG/CPU.

That's not to say the Type-l variants are useless, just that they are inferior to the Type-ll.

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Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:34:00 - [1] - Quote Here are some basic maths A type-II suit with lvl 5 Field Mechanics and Shield Control skills: (225 x 1.25) + (105 x 1.25) = 412.5 EHP A type-I suit: (125 x 1.25) + (175 x 1.25) = 375 EHP So not only are they slower, need a module to repair, and have a slower repair rate, but they also have less starting EHP. The problem here is obvious, type-1 suits suck, they need a buff (along with many other things in the game) Just 30 more HP would bring it up to type-II EHP levels, I'd suggest 130 shields and 200 armor. I'm also not sure why it has less PG and CPU then the type-II
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 60	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:36:00 - [2] - Quote maybe because 2 > 1?
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 308	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:37:00 - [3] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? I came here to say this.
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1172	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:38:00 - [4] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:39:00 - [5] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? But getting an A should better than getting a B Then again, I was always an F student
Jotun Hiem The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 526	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:40:00 - [6] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? All the other suits have a trade off. The heavy gets less EHP for mobility. The Logi loses an equipment slot for mobility I don't remember exactly what the scout does. I think it exchanges a sidearm slot for an equipment slot, but I may be mistaken. The Assault suits are the only ones where Type-II and correlating variants are straight up better.
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:40:00 - [7] - Quote yes lets just make all assault suits better. How about No!!!!
Protoman Is God Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:40:00 - [8] - Quote Standard A series Vk0 and Balacs modified VK0 They all have their uses and aren't nearly as useless are you are trying to say they are.
Solarisjock One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 27	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:41:00 - [9] - Quote actually, im pretty sure 2 is greater then 1. as in the Type 1 suit only needs assault suits at 1, while the Type II needs it at 2. so yes: 2 > 1
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:43:00 - [10] - Quote Protoman Is God wrote: Standard A series Vk0 and Balacs modified VK0 They all have their uses and aren't nearly as useless are you are trying to say they are. Not useless, just outclassed... completely. Edit: Not sure, but I think armor has better resistances, that's about it as far as advantages I can think of.

Shadowswipe WarRavens 70	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:45:00 - [11] - Quote May 6th brings all new dropsuits. Racial dropsuits with different feels and specialties. Just wait until then. I'm sure CCP has all the stats they need except server load. Hence the endurance event where they want you to play lots of games.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 60	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:46:00 - [12] - Quote Solarisjock wrote: actually, im pretty sure 2 is greater then 1. as in the Type 1 suit only needs assault suits at 1, while the Type II needs it at 2. so yes: 2 > 1 YAY!!!! It was proofed, I can math!
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Legacy Rising 936	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:52:00 - [13] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset. Incorrect - the Type II suits have a higher SP requirement to use, therefore they are designed to be better with a higher cost associated to them (both in ISK and SP investment).
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1172	Posted - 2013.04.12 22:56:00 - [14] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset. Incorrect - the Type II suits have a higher SP requirement to use, therefore they are designed to be better with a higher cost associated to them (both in ISK and SP investment). Explain type II vs type I logistics dropsuits, the type-II variant costs more ISK and requires more SP, but has the same health, mod slots, and weapon slots as the type-I. They lose an equipment slot for more stamina, hence the same tier of suit, but designed for a different mindset.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:00:00 - [15] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset. Incorrect - the Type II suits have a higher SP requirement to use, therefore they are designed to be better with a higher cost associated to them (both in ISK and SP investment). All variants cost more SP wise and ISK wise, whether they're actually better or not. I think it's a mistake for them to cost more ISK wise, but SP wise it's fine because you're supposed to be specializing further into a certain role.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 459	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:20:00 - [16] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: Standard A series Vk0 and Balacs modified VK0 They all have their uses and aren't nearly as useless are you are trying to say they are. Not useless, just outclassed... completely. Edit: Not sure, but I think armor has better resistances, that's about it as far as advantages I can think of. Actually, you have that backwards. Armor takes bonus damage from explosives like mass drivers and grenades, and projectiles like HMG's & SMG's. Shields take bonus damage from lasors and.... well... lasors. There's a grenade specifically for knocking off shields though, but a regular grenade does the same to armor so that's not really applicable. I think the only thing armor is resistant to Jotun Hiem wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? All the other suits have a trade off. The heavy gets less EHP for mobility. The Logi loses an equipment slot for mobility I don't remember exactly what the scout does. I think it exchanges a sidearm slot for an equipment slot, but I may be mistaken. The Assault suits are the only ones where Type-II and correlating variants are straight up better. The Type-ll Scout suits are a little slower and I believe have more armor and less shields, plus have an additional equipment slot. The Logi looses a vital equipment slot and gains speed. They also loose no PG/CPU, so not having that third piece of equipment means you have more PG/CPU to fit better mods and weapons. The Heavy get's less EHP and less incentive to equip damage mods by running Type-ll suits since half their health will be dictated by the shield extenders in it's high slots. The assault Type-ll suit has more EHP, better health regeneration, better speed and more PG/CPU. That's not to say the Type-l variants are useless, just that they are inferior to the Type-ll.
Kazio De Vihura Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 10	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:24:00 - [17] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset. Incorrect - the Type II suits have a higher SP requirement to use, therefore they are designed to be better with a higher cost associated to them (both in ISK and SP investment). Explain type II vs type I logistics dropsuits, the type-II variant costs more ISK and requires more SP, but has the same health, mod slots, and weapon slots as the type-I. They lose an equipment slot for more stamina, hence the same tier of suit, but designed for a different mindset. Type II logi is much faster then type 1 you can put 87 armor plate with 5% speed penalty and still will be faster then type 1 w/o plate
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 459	Posted - 2013.04.12 23:26:00 - [18] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset. Incorrect - the Type II suits have a higher SP requirement to use, therefore they are designed to be better with a higher cost associated to them (both in ISK and SP investment). Then why is it that a breach AR costs more ISK and SP than a standard? How about a burst or a tac? In the right hands they can sometimes be AS good, but will never be BETTER than a standard AR. (Not counting the Alloteck, that thing is beastly)
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 447	Posted - 2013.04.13 00:46:00 - [19] - Quote Clearly, the only way to balance type 1 with 2 variants is nerfing the type 2 variants
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.13 00:57:00 - [20] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Clearly, the only way to balance type 1 with 2 variants is nerfing the type 2 variants You fiend!

BuTtHuRtPEepZ Raging Pack of Homos 0	Posted - 2013.04.13 01:24:00 - [21] - Quote u think thats bad? as a sniper, i cannot even one-shot most of the assaults even with full offensive build (requires proto scout). weaponry + sniper proficiency + 3 complex mods = 55% charge rifle = 266 dmg (266)x(1.55) = 412.3 dmg AND i am paying MORE isk than assaults are. AND this doesnt even take into account the EXTRA shield/armor assaults can stack on. not fair imo. the ammount of time (and money) i spend into dmg should balance out the amount of time (and money) than my opponent spent
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 88	Posted - 2013.04.13 01:27:00 - [22] - Quote I beleive this will be changed with uprising. Especially since toons who go Gallante and Amarr will only get armor varient suites (Type 1 at lvl 1, type A at lvl 3 and Vk.0 at level 5) and Caladari and Mnmitar will only get the shield varients. (type -II, Type B and Vk.1.) To me the major advantage to armor is the ability to stack damage mods without sacrificing the main source of your survivability.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 143	Posted - 2013.04.13 01:42:00 - [23] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? Type-I vs Type-II aren't on different tiers from each other, they are on equal tiers that are designed for separate functions. The type-I heavy isn't any better or worse than the type-II, it just has a different functionality for a different mindset. Incorrect - the Type II suits have a higher SP requirement to use, therefore they are designed to be better with a higher cost associated to them (both in ISK and SP investment). All variants cost more SP wise and ISK wise, whether they're actually better or not. I think it's a mistake for them to cost more ISK wise, but SP wise it's fine because you're supposed to be specializing further into a certain role. Take a type I, Slap a repairer and armor plate on, then put some damage mods on the high slots. This equals relatively decent HP with much better DPS. there you go, have some fun with it if you can!
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.13 01:55:00 - [24] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Take a type I, Slap a repairer and armor plate on, then put some damage mods on the high slots. This equals relatively decent HP with much better DPS. there you go, have some fun with it if you can! I can do that with a Type-II Actually, I could do that with either suit even if they applied the changes I suggested . The specialization wouldn't really make a big difference until you reach prototype level.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 88	Posted - 2013.04.13 02:16:00 - [25] - Quote I run a free type-I suit in instant que's and maintain a 5+ k/d. I use raven type-i, exile AR, Toxin Sub machine gun, 2 milita light damage mods (blueprint), militia armor plate (blueprint), militia armor repair (blueprint), militia nanohive (blueprint), and militia locus grenades (blueprint).
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 844	Posted - 2013.04.13 02:20:00 - [26] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: I run a free type-I suit in instant que's and maintain a 5+ k/d. I use raven type-i, exile AR, Toxin Sub machine gun, 2 milita light damage mods (blueprint), militia armor plate (blueprint), militia armor repair (blueprint), militia nanohive (blueprint), and militia locus grenades (blueprint). I use my enforcer fit and do okay as well, it doesn't mean that the type-II isn't inherently better. And for the record, I mostly use the type-II suit, I'm just trying to help my type-I brothers out.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2452	Posted - 2013.04.13 04:52:00 - [27] - Quote BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: u think thats bad? as a sniper, i cannot even one-shot most of the assaults even with full offensive build (requires proto scout). weaponry + sniper proficiency + 3 complex mods = 55% charge rifle = 266 dmg (266)x(1.55) = 412.3 dmg AND i am paying MORE isk than assaults are. AND this doesnt even take into account the EXTRA shield/armor assaults can stack on. not fair imo. the ammount of time (and money) i spend into dmg should balance out the amount of time (and money) than my opponent spent You're forgetting the 195% efficiency on headshots. (412.3) x (1.95) = 803.985 So... 804 damage, basically. Good luck tanking an Assault suit through that.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.04.13 05:07:00 - [28] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Protoman Is God wrote: Standard A series Vk0 and Balacs modified VK0 They all have their uses and aren't nearly as useless are you are trying to say they are. Not useless, just outclassed... completely. Edit: Not sure, but I think armor has better resistances, that's about it as far as advantages I can think of. Actually, you have that backwards. Armor takes bonus damage from explosives like mass drivers and grenades, and projectiles like HMG's & SMG's. Shields take bonus damage from lasors and.... well... lasors. There's a grenade specifically for knocking off shields though, but a regular grenade does the same to armor so that's not really applicable. I think the only thing armor is resistant to Jotun Hiem wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: maybe because 2 > 1? All the other suits have a trade off. The heavy gets less EHP for mobility. The Logi loses an equipment slot for mobility I don't remember exactly what the scout does. I think it exchanges a sidearm slot for an equipment slot, but I may be mistaken. The Assault suits are the only ones where Type-II and correlating variants are straight up better. The Type-ll Scout suits are a little slower and I believe have more armor and less shields, plus have an additional equipment slot. The Logi looses a vital equipment slot and gains speed. They also loose no PG/CPU, so not having that third piece of equipment means you have more PG/CPU to fit better mods and weapons. The Heavy get's less EHP and less incentive to equip damage mods by running Type-ll suits since half their health will be dictated by the shield extenders in it's high slots. The assault Type-ll suit has more EHP, better health regeneration, better speed and more PG/CPU. That's not to say the Type-l variants are useless, just that they are inferior to the Type-ll. Type II are not superior to Type !. It is a different mindset and fitting build depending on the combat environment. If you see a lot of flux grenades coming out, you switch to an armor tanking fit, take a little bit of a loss in speed, but are able to walk through the flux storm. See a lot of regular nades going off, shields it is for the quick recharge and short term functionality and hit and run tactics. each suit variant fills a mode of approach on fittings and how they are deployed. If a person is relying just on total EHP, I meet you in the field and give you a run for your money in a Raven BPO suit (all militia gear on a type I).
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.04.13 05:09:00 - [29] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: I run a free type-I suit in instant que's and maintain a 5+ k/d. I use raven type-i, exile AR, Toxin Sub machine gun, 2 milita light damage mods (blueprint), militia armor plate (blueprint), militia armor repair (blueprint), militia nanohive (blueprint), and militia locus grenades (blueprint). BPO for the ISK FARMING AND THE WIN!!!!
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.04.13 05:10:00 - [30] - Quote BuTtHuRtPEepZ wrote: u think thats bad? as a sniper, i cannot even one-shot most of the assaults even with full offensive build (requires proto scout). weaponry + sniper proficiency + 3 complex mods = 55% charge rifle = 266 dmg (266)x(1.55) = 412.3 dmg AND i am paying MORE isk than assaults are. AND this doesnt even take into account the EXTRA shield/armor assaults can stack on. not fair imo. the ammount of time (and money) i spend into dmg should balance out the amount of time (and money) than my opponent spent Learn how to shoot straighter? Don't be a scout?



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